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I remember some one saying that if I had an 18" gun and all the other guns had 12" and the 18" fired at a squad more than 12" away, that the 12" guns would hit the target as well. Is this true? If so pg numbers would be great. If this is codex specific It was in reference to a squad of warp spiders and the exarch had the 18" gun while the spiders had their 12" spinners.

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

The FAQ, says that models must be out of range from all the models in the shooting unit to be safe, this is why having longer range weapon(s) in the squad extends their kill range as a group.

Note however that the shorter range weapons must still be in range themselves when rolling to hit, all they gain is the ability to cause wounds beyond that range.

No.

It is slightly different.

In the case above, as the target unit is more than 12" away, the regular guys can't target them and shoot at them.

If however, just one of the models in the target squad were within 12", then the regular spiders can fire and the wounds caused by their guns can be allocated to the models that are between 12" and 18" inch away.

How did i say something different.

I clearly said you can't shoot weapons that aren't in range when you roll to hit.

I agree with both of you. Maybe Baktru was referring to the OP... You both said basically the same thing.

 HoverBoy wrote:
How did i say something different.

I clearly said you can't shoot weapons that aren't in range when you roll to hit.

Sorry Hoverboy, your quote appeared whilst I was typing mine. The "No" was aimed at the OP, not you.

I fully agree with your post.

The risks of text based communication

 HoverBoy wrote:
The risks of text based communication

...and the risks of overreacting or being too sensitive on an online forum.

That too.

okay thanks for that.

While we're on the topic, lets's take the below case:

5 man Tac squad with 4 Boltgun and 1 LC, (assume they are combat squad and remained stationary) fires at a target unit of 10 models.
Only 1 model of the target unit is found to be in range of the 4 Boltguns. However, all models are within LC range.
The Tac squad fires and scores all hits, and all wounds.

Does this mean that all 5 wounds can be allocated to the target unit despite only 1 enemy model is within boltgun range and only 1 shot from the lascannon hits beyond 24"?

skchsan wrote:
While we're on the topic, lets's take the below case:

5 man Tac squad with 4 Boltgun and 1 LC, (assume they are combat squad and remained stationary) fires at a target unit of 10 models.
Only 1 model of the target unit is found to be in range of the 4 Boltguns. However, all models are within LC range.
The Tac squad fires and scores all hits, and all wounds.

Does this mean that all 5 wounds can be allocated to the target unit despite only 1 enemy model is within boltgun range and only 1 shot from the lascannon hits beyond 24"?

That's exactly what it means.

How exactly does this work with template weapons or blast weapons. My buddy and I got on the discussion of this and couldn't come to an agreement initially.

 SwampRats45MK wrote:
How exactly does this work with template weapons or blast weapons. My buddy and I got on the discussion of this and couldn't come to an agreement initially.

Exactly the same way. Blast and Template weapons both have listed ranges (what a template can touch for the Template weapons), so can only allocate wounds out to those ranges absent something else that is firing being able to reach other models.

skchsan wrote:
While we're on the topic, lets's take the below case:

5 man Tac squad with 4 Boltgun and 1 LC, (assume they are combat squad and remained stationary) fires at a target unit of 10 models.
Only 1 model of the target unit is found to be in range of the 4 Boltguns. However, all models are within LC range.
The Tac squad fires and scores all hits, and all wounds.

Does this mean that all 5 wounds can be allocated to the target unit despite only 1 enemy model is within boltgun range and only 1 shot from the lascannon hits beyond 24"?

As said, Yes that is exactly how it works.

Consequently, pre FaQ it was less restrictive.

Before the FaQ if you had 5 firing boltgunners, and all 5 were within 24 inches of one model in the target unit, but all of the other models in the target unit were out of range, then pre-FaQ all 5 wounds could be allocated to the target unit despite only 1 enemy model is within boltgun range.

Not same unit of 5 boltguns can only kill that one model, unless the firing unit contains a weapon with a longer range. It is now more restrictive.

Chrysis wrote:

 SwampRats45MK wrote:
How exactly does this work with template weapons or blast weapons. My buddy and I got on the discussion of this and couldn't come to an agreement initially.

Exactly the same way. Blast and Template weapons both have listed ranges (what a template can touch for the Template weapons), so can only allocate wounds out to those ranges absent something else that is firing being able to reach other models.

Not entirely true.

BRB page 33:
Blast & Large Blast
[...]
Note that it is possible, and absolutely fine, for a shot to scatter beyond the weapon's maximum or minimum range and line of sight.This represents the chance of ricochets, the missile blasdng through cover and other random events. In these cases, hits are worked out as normal and can hit and wound units out of range and line of sight (or even your own units, or models locked in combat).

So how does this rule play out for meltas then?

Say a bike squad with 2 meltaguns and attack bike with MM. At 12" away, would the MM give the meltaguns melta range?

No, because this rule does not alter the RANGE of the weapon. AS has been repeatedly stated

Distance you can remove models (assign wounds) is not always the same as the range of the weapon used.

The issue is misunderstanding the different phases of combat. One unit shoots at another unit. Whatever weapons are in range can fire. When wounds are totaled up, they can be allocated based upon the range of the longest range weapon.

To use an example from a similar post, 5 tacs with 4 boltguns and a lascannon shoot at a unit whose closest model is 23" and farthest is 30+". All 4 boltguns hit and wound, and can be allocated to models past their max range. For fluffs sake, consider the las cannon blasting through a row of guys that are beyond the normal range of the other guns.

It doesnt have to make sense, it's just the rules.

Moridan wrote:
For fluffs sake, consider the las cannon blasting through a row of guys that are beyond the normal range of the other guns.

It doesnt have to make sense, it's just the rules.

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. When you put it that way it totally makes sense.

It's the exact same rule as before the Jan 16th FAQ, EXCEPT that now, if you don't have at least one weapon firing that can reach a given model, you now can't allocate any wounds to said model.

This makes range now exactly parallel line of sight, where if at least one firing model has LOS to a given model in the target unit, that model is eligible to have wounds assigned to it, but if zero firing models have LOS to that model, no wounds may be assigned to it.

In both cases we're talking about a simple abstraction of one unit firing at another unit.

I think people underestimate just how much a model-by-model rule where every weapon had its own kill zone would suuuuuuuuck to play in practice.

wow, my group plays all models that are able to hit are also able to wound!

I hate having to be the jerk that completely changes the meta every time we realize we are playing the rules wrong.... :/

Is there any type of long range assault or rapid fire weapon you could have? It would greatly enhance the killing power of a unit I would think.

Pyrian wrote:
I think people underestimate just how much a model-by-model rule where every weapon had its own kill zone would suuuuuuuuck to play in practice.

It really doesn't add any more time. You just measure and count the total number of shots. No magic bullets.

bodazoka wrote:
wow, my group plays all models that are able to hit are also able to wound!

I hate having to be the jerk that completely changes the meta every time we realize we are playing the rules wrong.... :/

Is there any type of long range assault or rapid fire weapon you could have? It would greatly enhance the killing power of a unit I would think.

The only time is normally comes up is when you have a unit with all 24" range guns shooting at a unit which is only partially within 24" of the firers. It basically puts a bit of a cap on how many guys GK or Necrons (which are the most common things you see with all-24" range guns) can generally kill in a round of fire at extreme range.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
I think people underestimate just how much a model-by-model rule where every weapon had its own kill zone would suuuuuuuuck to play in practice.

It really doesn't add any more time. You just measure and count the total number of shots. No magic bullets.

It *really* does. If each weapon can only kill to its range, and you are at a number of different ranges to the enemy unit, trying to keep track model by model what THAT model is able to kill is very tricky - as further away models would want to kill "their" models first....and so on.