Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

(cross post from tactics, no responses there)

So im running lysander with a unit of 10 sternguard (5combi melta-5combi flamer). His bolter drill will let them re roll any failed to hit shots with their special issue ammunition.

I am deliberating weather or not to combat squad the combi-flamers from the combi- meltas. Doing this will essentially gives me split fire. (Even though they are seperate units) I will be able to try and combi-flame infantry and combi melta tanks during the same shooting phase or use hellfire rounds on one unit and dragon fire .ect on another. However i will loose the bolter drill for half my sternguard as i will have to pair lysander with only 5 sternguard. Is it worth giving up bolter drill for half my 10 man squad to do this?

I can always make the decision to command squad the sternguard on the fly as they will all be coming in via drop pod.

I feel like if you're taking Lysander along, you want to be maximizing the usage of Bolter Drill. I typically run him with tactical Terminators so they can move and murder everything at 24" every turn. The split up Sternguard reminds me of a unit that a friend used on me before, which was the 5x combi flamer and 5x combi melta combat squadding from a drop pod. With Vulkan's Combat Tactics in effect, it becomes an absolutely murderous unit.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I feel like if you're taking Lysander along, you want to be maximizing the usage of Bolter Drill. I typically run him with tactical Terminators so they can move and murder everything at 24" every turn. The split up Sternguard reminds me of a unit that a friend used on me before, which was the 5x combi flamer and 5x combi melta combat squadding from a drop pod. With Vulkan's Combat Tactics in effect, it becomes an absolutely murderous unit.

So as far as maximizing the bolter drill, I figured that I could have Lysander paired with one half of the squad as they fire their Special ammunition, during that same shooting phase the other half can fire their combi weapons. Then in the subsequent movement phase Lysander can hop over to the 5 sternguard that have already used up their combis and grant them the bolter drill, while the first 5 sternguard can use their combi weapons.

It may not pan out though if I get assaulted, I'd have to be clever about drop placement and range for the first turn.


I was considering Vulkan, May proxy him to see how that pans out,

If I wanted to run 10 sternguard with c-meltas and c-flamers n a drop pod I would take Vulcan over Lysander every single time. Vulkan twin-links all meltas and flamers in your entire army - it really multiplies your force. Lysander's rerolls on a single squad are not worth taking a 200p charater. I would rather buy some more sternguards. As Brother SRM told the best way to benefit from bolter dril is to run him in a full terminator squad (standing in front to tank damage with his 3++ EW).

 Avatrass wrote:
If I wanted to run 10 sternguard with c-meltas and c-flamers n a drop pod I would take Vulcan over Lysander every single time. Vulkan twin-links all meltas and flamers in your entire army - it really multiplies your force. Lysander's rerolls on a single squad are not worth taking a 200p charater. I would rather buy some more sternguards. As Brother SRM told the best way to benefit from bolter dril is to run him in a full terminator squad (standing in front to tank damage with his 3++ EW).

Okay, so, crazy idea.

Take vulkan AND lysander. Have a Lrc full of TH/SS termies (master crafed from vulkan). Run lysander with the sternguard. Re-rolls up the yingyang.

Nothing wrong with dropping 390 points on hqs if youre playing a 2000 plus pt game.

Especially when one of them is a 4 wound 3++ EW.

Lysander's other benefit to the Sternguard is significantly improving their survivability in close combat, which is often a problem for Drop Podding Sternguard, especially if you are dropping them into range to use those combi weapons.

That being said, the ten man Sternguard unit with the combi-weapons in a Vulkan list is amazing. I run that list myself and can testify to it's awesome power. I like to add a Librarian (preferably with Force Dome and Gate) to allow them to redeploy at a moment's notice.

Gosh, it's SO expensive, though. Really, the strength of sternguard is in their combi-weapons, not in their special ammunition. Plus, it seems kind of a waste to throw so many points into a suicide squad (without at least making them scoring).

If you want a special character to go with sternguard than either pedro or vulkan are WAY better choices. Lysander tends to be worth loosing combat tactics only in an ARMY that really likes its bolt weapons, rather than merely a UNIT that does.

Slightly disagree... I use the "no cover save" ammo a LOT to very good effect in combination with the heavy flamer... But, yes, Pedro Kantor making them scoring is huge. And of course the squad he arrives with has a decent HtH Presence... OTOH, my BA lists with Tycho and a medic for FnP work really well...

 Ailaros wrote:
Lysander tends to be worth loosing combat tactics only in an ARMY that really likes its bolt weapons, rather than merely a UNIT that does.

But his bolter drill only affects the unit he is with, not the entire army. Do you see him hopping from unit to unit?

I honestly see him as being halfway between an HQ and a monstrous creature. The guy's a beast. He can tank damage and deliver it back.

BoniFactor wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Lysander tends to be worth loosing combat tactics only in an ARMY that really likes its bolt weapons, rather than merely a UNIT that does.

But his bolter drill only affects the unit he is with, not the entire army. Do you see him hopping from unit to unit?

I honestly see him as being halfway between an HQ and a monstrous creature. The guy's a beast. He can tank damage and deliver it back.

Memphy begs to differ he IS and MC..... just not marked as one.. all he needs is a ++ save to trash Lydsander

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

BoniFactor wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Lysander tends to be worth loosing combat tactics only in an ARMY that really likes its bolt weapons, rather than merely a UNIT that does.

But his bolter drill only affects the unit he is with, not the entire army. Do you see him hopping from unit to unit?

I honestly see him as being halfway between an HQ and a monstrous creature. The guy's a beast. He can tank damage and deliver it back.

Memphy begs to differ he IS and MC..... just not marked as one.. all he needs is a ++ save to trash Lydsander

Can't argue with that hehe.

BoniFactor wrote:

 Avatrass wrote:
If I wanted to run 10 sternguard with c-meltas and c-flamers n a drop pod I would take Vulcan over Lysander every single time. Vulkan twin-links all meltas and flamers in your entire army - it really multiplies your force. Lysander's rerolls on a single squad are not worth taking a 200p charater. I would rather buy some more sternguards. As Brother SRM told the best way to benefit from bolter dril is to run him in a full terminator squad (standing in front to tank damage with his 3++ EW).

Okay, so, crazy idea.

Take vulkan AND lysander. Have a Lrc full of TH/SS termies (master crafed from vulkan). Run lysander with the sternguard. Re-rolls up the yingyang.

Nothing wrong with dropping 390 points on hqs if youre playing a 2000 plus pt game.

Especially when one of them is a 4 wound 3++ EW.

This works extremely well using both in concert. I run a list that at 1850 that is nasty, and I've only lost like once with it. It's basically foot horde marines. LOTS of re rolls.
The list is
Vulkan
Lysander
Command squad(4plasma,1 SS, DP)
10x sternguard (3combi, 2 melta, DP)
3x tactical
5man scout squad
2x attk bikes
Thunderbire

Chancetragedy wrote:

BoniFactor wrote:

 Avatrass wrote:
If I wanted to run 10 sternguard with c-meltas and c-flamers n a drop pod I would take Vulcan over Lysander every single time. Vulkan twin-links all meltas and flamers in your entire army - it really multiplies your force. Lysander's rerolls on a single squad are not worth taking a 200p charater. I would rather buy some more sternguards. As Brother SRM told the best way to benefit from bolter dril is to run him in a full terminator squad (standing in front to tank damage with his 3++ EW).

Okay, so, crazy idea.

Take vulkan AND lysander. Have a Lrc full of TH/SS termies (master crafed from vulkan). Run lysander with the sternguard. Re-rolls up the yingyang.

Nothing wrong with dropping 390 points on hqs if youre playing a 2000 plus pt game.

Especially when one of them is a 4 wound 3++ EW.

This works extremely well using both in concert. I run a list that at 1850 that is nasty, and I've only lost like once with it. It's basically foot horde marines. LOTS of re rolls.
The list is
Vulkan
Lysander
Command squad(4plasma,1 SS, DP)
10x sternguard (3combi, 2 melta, DP)
3x tactical
5man scout squad
2x attk bikes
Thunderbire

Happy to see these two working in tandem!

Did you end up running Lysander with the sternguard? or one of your tac squads?

I like to run Lysander with the sternguard and vulkan with the command squad both of which in drop pods.