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So I haven't been having the best luck with the new CSM codex. I bought Vengeance recently to try and give my army more options. I don't have a lot of models to choose from but this is the list I've come up with.

HQ

Typhus [in land raider]: 230
Sorcerer [in rhino with chosen] with combi melta and burning brand of skaltharax: 100

Troops

x20 Cultists (zombies): 80
x20 Cultists (zombies): 80
x10 Chaos Space Marines with x2 meltaguns, combi melta, rhino: 205
x10 Chaos Space Marines with x2 plasmaguns, combi melta, rhino: 215

Elites

Hellbrute with twin linked lascannon: 130
x4 Terminators with x4 combi melta, [land raider dedicated transport]: 146
x5 Terminators [deepstriking] with heavy flamer, x4 combi melta: 187
x6 Chosen with x5 meltaguns, combi melta, rhino: 203

Heavy

Land Raider: 230
x8 Havocs with x4 lascannons: 194

Total: 2000

I am looking for tactical suggestions to this list, modifications to the units already in the list, and what you think might be some potential weaknesses to this list. In particular, I am looking for opinions on the chosen squad with the sorcerer as I have not used them yet.

In my honest opinion, throw away chosen n sorc. Use those points to transform CSM into plague marines. Possibly split into 4 squads of 5 plague marines with more spec weapons, n if you can not afford more rhinos, just foot slog them.

Pm, 2 melta, rhino-175
Pm, 2 melta, rhino-175
Pm, 2 plasma, rhino-185
Pm, 2 plasma, rhino-185

Drop helbrute if you have havocs, 1 lc, 3 ac or pred with lascan
sponsons or vindicator.

Havocks, 1 lc, 3 ac-125
Or pred, 2 lc sponson, extra armor, dozer blade-130
Or vindicator, siege shield, or 2 combi bolter-130

I like the list.
The helbruted was FAQed to reduce the basic pts to 100 so you have a little saving there. The chosen could be downgraded to havocs as they appear to be shooty rather than assaulty.

I see you putting a missile launcher on the helbrute, losing 10 zombies and a few of the havoc extras to pay for a dedicated transport for the havocs (bear with me). I also think you need to find the points for some more heavy support or an aegis defense line + quad gun; you have very little anti-air at the moment.

The plan would then be:

20 Zombies to sit on a home objective.
Havocs + Helbrute + AGL or other HS to form a fire base. The helbrute giving them a little bit of a combat shield, even against crack grenades they are hard to beat.

10 Zombies are deployed behind the havoc's rhino and move in to it the first turn to go and objective grab if there is an objective on its own or they go with the main push.
All the LR and Rhinos form a single push into the area with most objectives or with most of the enemy is and chew everything up.

The deep striking terminators can go after any awkward tanks missed by the main rush or strike into the general area of the main rush and support it.

Sorry Filch I am only looking for advice that does not include models I don't already have.

I like the idea of turning the chosen into havocs, but I was just really hoping to make the squad work somehow since I just got them from vengeance and they look cool.

I have two defilers that I am considering never playing again. What is the verdict on defilers in this edition? It seems like 195 points is just waaay too much for what they do each turn. I just can't justify 195 points to shoot one battle cannon each turn.

I think defilers are still okay.

They have 4 HPs and can self repair the hull points so they are still quite robust. In an assaulty situation they have the two powerfist attacks and can go forward with an assaulty element to the force or pop them next to havocs to stop them being assaulted. They have the best ranged CSM weapon, the real nurf is having to snapfire the reamining weapons.


I'm not a huge fan of the model, GW need to update it.