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Can pathfinder devilfish use the "scout" rule to deploy in escalation now? or do they have to start off the table?

kthx >_~

Page 75 of the BGB answers the question. Look under "Scouts."

I don't get it, can you elaborate on your answer?

kthx >_>

The BGB says "Yes." If you are a scout, you can deploy, even if you couldn't normally, in escalation. Feel free to make your move.

tau codex saids "pathfinders" have the scouts rule, but has no mention of its devilfish getting it.

discuss

Seeing as the dedicated transport would be unable to deploy without its squad, one has no other choice than to deploy one's devilfish with his pathfinders.

Seeing as the dedicated transport would be unable to deploy without its squad, one has no other choice than to deploy one's devilfish with his pathfinders.

Wouldn't that be contrary to the ethics of taking the less advantageous interpretation of the rule?

I don't have the Tau codex, but from what I see, Pathfinders have Scout. Pathfinders can take a Devilfish Transport. Devilfish Transports do not have Scout.

When you deploy, you must deploy an entire slot on the FOC together, so units must deploy with their dedicated Transport. You don't have to deploy them inside the transport, or next to them, but they must come on the table together. 'Scouts' says you may deploy even in Escalation. Escalation says units with dedicated transports may not deploy. If you deploy a unit with a dedicated transport in Escalation, you would be breaching that rule, which you can only do if you are specifically told you can. The Pathfinders can deploy, because they have Scout, but there's no mention of their Devilfish getting Scout if they have it. (I presume.) Nor is there any mention in the Scout rule about granting it to a unit's transport.

So you have a contradictory situation in the rules. To resolve it, you can either a) grant the Scout ability to a unit that doesn't have it and doesn't say they can have it (the Devilfish), or b) not set up a unit with a dedicated Transport, just like it says you must in the Escalation rule. The second option seems to me to be the one that breaks no rules, and that is the less advantageous of the two.

Similarly, a Scout unit that deploys on the table inside their Transport (say in a Gamma game), still retains their Scout ability, but their transport doesn't have it. So they would get a free move, but their transport isn't allowed to make a free move. They could disembark and have a move, but their transport wouldn't get to move them.

Unless there's some FAQ somewhere that says Scout goes to a unit's transport as well. I'm just looking at the main book here.

I was drunk. Does that count as "I didn't think it through"?

I posted this in the 'Problems with the new Tau Empire codex' thread, but I think it holds up here.

"9) Pathfinder Devilfish Scout movement. Under the Pathfinders unit entry, it says a Team "consists of 4-8 Pathfinders and a Devilfish". The 'Fish gets to Scout move, though it wouldn't have killed them to put a line expressly allowing it."

Pathfinders MUST take the Devilfish and the unit entry counts the 'Fish as part of the Pathfinders unit. And although apparently outdated, the 3rd ed Tau FAQ allows the Pathfinder Devilfish to pre-game move along with the Pathfinder infantry.

Pathfinders MUST take the Devilfish and the unit entry counts the 'Fish as part of the Pathfinders unit. And although apparently outdated, the 3rd ed Tau FAQ allows the Pathfinder Devilfish to pre-game move along with the Pathfinder infantry.

That is interesting. Like I said, I don't have the Tau Codex. So Pathfinders are obliged to take a Devilfish, and Pathfinders have Scout. But there's no mention of giving Scout to the Devilfish as well.

Well, like I said in my last post, there is still a rules impasse. Pathfinders can Scout (I don't know the exact wording of how it is given to the Pathfinders in the Codex - if someone can post the precise wording, that might help), but a Devilfish is a Devilfish, and Devilfish don't have Scout. So you can either give Scout to the Devilfish, which would be doing something that the rules don't expressly allow you to do, or you can assume it was another act of total stupidity on GW's part and not give it Scout, which would be the less advantageous option.

The fact that a 3rd ed FAQ allows it to make a Scout move does indicate that the intent was to give it Scout. But it is a 3rd ed FAQ - the 4th ed Codex should take precedence. By the RAW, I don't think you can argue that it has Scout. But if this were to come up in a game, I think I'd allow my opponent to do it. The intent does seem clear, particularly if a previous FAQ has allowed it.

Pathfinders have the Scout rule. Devilfishes do not. Logically, you cannot deploy Pathfinders on-table in Escalation missions. Likewise, even if deployed in other missions, the Pathfinders may move, the Devilfish may not. That's what the RAW say. End of story.

There is precedence for vehicles having the Scout rule too (see IG Sentinels for example) so why they couldn't have fixed this, I don't know.

The kicker is that they made this mistake in the last codex, and had to FAQ it.

Then they go and make it again, in the era of no FAQs.

Good job GW management. Go home proud. Pat yourself on the back.