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Hi,

I recently bought some MIG weathering powder, 'Lunar Dust' for my ash waste based Salamanders. I know that I have to use alcohol to fix the pigments in place but can I use any kind of alcohol? What is the preferred method and substance to use?

There are MANY ways you can use powders. Regular rubbing alcohol is what you're probably thinking of, but I've seen people use a thinned matte medium, or just stipple it on and then use a sprayed on clear coat to fix it.

Hi,
Some uses:

1. Put it on dry, blend with a brush, fix when you like the results.
2. Mix with water, use as a wash, fix when you like the results.
3. Dab brush in alcohol, dab in powder, stipple effect

Long story short, you can use them dry, wet, or mixed with alcohol. I prefer dry and wet, fix later.

FYI you use isopropyl alcohol to fix, 70% or 91% work equally well. Once fixed, they are permanent-ish!

Thanks for the answers guys. Would alcohol be the better alternative to matte medium for a more permanent fix? I have found some isopropyl alcohol at 99.5% would that work well?

As mentioned, there are many different ways to fix pigments (including dedicated products), as well as different ways to apply them (dry, wash, mixed with medium). When using alcohol, you're looking for isopropyl (commonly called rubbing alcohol, at least in the states). 70% works just fine - although higher concentrations are available if you look around, there's no real benefit to them.

As far as method is concerned - and I'm assuming, here, that you've already applied the pigment dry - you want to disturb the placement and distribution of your pigment as little as possible. To that end, avoid actively brushing the fixer on. Instead, load a brush with your alcohol and gently touch it to a pigmented area. Capillary action will draw the alcohol out of the bristles and you'll see it start spreading through the pigment, darkening it (temporarily, of course). Simply repeat until all areas have been soaked. So long as you don't completely flood an area, causing runs, or drag the brush around too much, everything will stay where you put it. It won't stand up to too much handling, but rubbing alcohol is more than enough to keep everything in place for the finishing touches and varnishing (highly recommended for gaming models).

Also, be aware that isopropyl alcohol will strip acrylic paint with a bit of time and agitation. If you plan to use it to make a self-adhesive wash, brush your pigments around while wet, or want to be able to re-wet and clean off mistakes, lay down some varnish, first. The capillary application method is gentle enough for an unvarnished paintjob to survive, but even gentle wash application can strip down to the primer, if you used thin layers.

The particular bottle of isopropyl I found costs about the equivalent of $20 for a whole litre.

The model has been gloss varnished and then matted down with one thin coat and I plan on matting it down with one further coat once the pigments are fixed, would that suffice to protect it?

I had planned on applying the alcohol by using one of these:

The spray bottle will work fine, make sure you are misting and not fire-hosing!

$20 for a liter is outrageously overpriced. 1 pint (16oz. or ~ half-liter) costs less than $2 at any drug store or supermarket in the US and lasts just short of forever.

 Spehs Mehreens wrote:
The particular bottle of isopropyl I found costs about the equivalent of $20 for a whole litre.

The model has been gloss varnished and then matted down with one thin coat and I plan on matting it down with one further coat once the pigments are fixed, would that suffice to protect it?

I had planned on applying the alcohol by using one of these:

One coat of varnish over the top should be fine. Worst case scenario, you have to touch up the pigment down the road. Even that is unlikely, unless you're particularly rough with your models.

Honestly, I wouldn't spray the alcohol. Application by brush really doesn't take very long and gives you much better control. I have a feeling that the line between only dampening the surface and blasting/flooding your pigment away is going to be much finer than you expect. You're more than welcome to experiment, of course, but I'm confident that there's a reason why the practice isn't commonplace, even with so many people using pigments.

More or less everyone I know uses an airbrush to fix pigments. YMMV.

 oadie wrote:
One coat of varnish over the top should be fine. Worst case scenario, you have to touch up the pigment down the road. Even that is unlikely, unless you're particularly rough with your models.

Honestly, I wouldn't spray the alcohol. Application by brush really doesn't take very long and gives you much better control. I have a feeling that the line between only dampening the surface and blasting/flooding your pigment away is going to be much finer than you expect. You're more than welcome to experiment, of course, but I'm confident that there's a reason why the practice isn't commonplace, even with so many people using pigments.

The spray bottle will work fine, make sure you are misting and not fire-hosing!

$20 for a liter is outrageously overpriced. 1 pint (16oz. or ~ half-liter) costs less than $2 at any drug store or supermarket in the US and lasts just short of forever.

Nice, I'll try the spray bottle and I promise to be very careful.

Well I live in half-socialist Sweden so the only other alternative is to get it at the pharmacy for about $10 for 1 dl... (1/10 th of a liter).

One coat of varnish over the top should be fine. Worst case scenario, you have to touch up the pigment down the road. Even that is unlikely, unless you're particularly rough with your models.

Good to know, I won't be transporting the models much and I'm really careful with them, almost obsessively so.

I have read that you never varnish over dry pigments.

I can tell you why from experience:the vanish will absorb, make dull or otherwise negate the effect of the pigment.

But don't take my word for it. Try it and find out.

For a GAMING model where you have used pigments, you will most certainly need to varnish it in order to keep them on the model.

The static display modellers who use them use a matt varnish - but the models are rarely handled - and frequent handling WILL rub the pigment powders off - unless you go hardcore on the protective varnishing.

Bear in mind, that varnishing WILL SOFTEN the effect of the powders, so you need to OVERDO them in order for it to look natural on a varnished piece.

http://chestofcolors.com/how-to-paint-with-dry-pigments/

Lots and lots of varnishing (well, Dull Cote) going on in this tutorial.

I have a small "spritzer" bottle. You can find them at the dollar store or Dr. Ben's sells them. I like them because I can get a more precise application.

Do heed the warnings about the isopropyl. While it is cheaper than buying MIG's fixative (which I've found doesn't seem to affect the underlying acrylic paint), it can ruin paint jobs which is why you see a lot of Model RR'er's tutorial videos they will hit the area with very light matte varnish before applying and often in-between "coats". This does two things: Protects what's already there, and gives the pigment a "little somethin' to hang on to" (WOOF!) , like a sort of invisible primer coat. Of course, enough matte varnish will act as a fixative in and of itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
For a GAMING model where you have used pigments, you will most certainly need to varnish it in order to keep them on the model.

The static display modellers who use them use a matt varnish - but the models are rarely handled - and frequent handling WILL rub the pigment powders off - unless you go hardcore on the protective varnishing.

Bear in mind, that varnishing WILL SOFTEN the effect of the powders, so you need to OVERDO them in order for it to look natural on a varnished piece.

True. I've often had a piece where I'm like "MAN, this looks AWESOME!" then varnished it and it suddenly became "just OK" Sometimes it completely nullified the effect. The good news is you can apply more pigment after varnishing and then hit it with a fixative and/or varnish again. Experimentation is the key.

A little bit of a thread rez here, but I tried mixing my weathering powders with Lahmian Medium and the mix ended up turning into a paint. Is this normal? I figured that it'll be a viable alternative to using the white spirits (for dabbing, as opposed to using the spray-fixer method) that both my friends and the FW book uses.

Totally normal; Lahmian medium is an acrlyic binder (or rather colourless paint), weathering pigments are pure powdered pigment.
Pigment + binder = paint, the powder will now be suspended in a film of acrylic, much like any acrylic paint, only I expect that your pigment isnt as fine, or as well dispersed as in machine mixed paints.

The alcohol method is probably the best for fixing the powder in place before it gets a varnish spray, Not fixing it in with alcohol will probably result in the air presusre from the spray blowing your hard work away.
As said alcohol can and will damage your paint job underneath, Many have said already and i'l re-itterate, do an intercoat clear coat first. Which just means varnish it, then apply powders and varnish it again to seal it in.
This way any alcohol work is seperated from your colour work by some clear varnish. (This would be common practise for using dye based colours that might bleed through layers of work too)

HairySticks wrote:
Totally normal; Lahmian medium is an acrlyic binder (or rather colourless paint), weathering pigments are pure powdered pigment.
Pigment + binder = paint, the powder will now be suspended in a film of acrylic, much like any acrylic paint, only I expect that your pigment isnt as fine, or as well dispersed as in machine mixed paints.

The alcohol method is probably the best for fixing the powder in place before it gets a varnish spray, Not fixing it in with alcohol will probably result in the air presusre from the spray blowing your hard work away.
As said alcohol can and will damage your paint job underneath, Many have said already and i'l re-itterate, do an intercoat clear coat first. Which just means varnish it, then apply powders and varnish it again to seal it in.
This way any alcohol work is seperated from your colour work by some clear varnish. (This would be common practise for using dye based colours that might bleed through layers of work too)

Gah. Thank you very much. I wish instructions on using weathering powders were clearer, even FW's were pretty bad.