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Hello Everyone,
I am playing my friend who picked up the new Tau and they are definitely a horse of a different color than the last edition. I am looking to run a Dark Angels list the next time we play and I need some advice. (I apologize if this is not the correct place for this thread)

Our game point totals are 1000 - 1500. He is big on Crisis Suits and Sniper drones in his lists and Riptides will be added as soon as they arrive from his order.

So far, I was thinking of using Azrael and some units of Bikes for the increased mobility to chase some of the Tau units that like to JSJ.

Other than that, I am open to suggestions for what to add to make it a close game.

I'd use black knights for some nice ap2 wounds to take out the suits then charge them break off at the end of his combat phase with hit and run rinse and repeat

Not sure if you've been made aware, it was previously FAQ'd that crisis suits are no longer Jump Jet units. So can only move 6 then jump in the assault move.

Im 95% sure it's the same in the new codex. It means they cant hide behind a wall. jump over then jump back sadly!

6'' then 2d6'' in the assault phase if not assaulting. If they are assaulting they move 2d6'' and have the 'hammer of wrath' special rule.

I'm not sure why they'd ever be assaulting tho...

 Celtic Strike wrote:
6'' then 2d6'' in the assault phase if not assaulting. If they are assaulting they move 2d6'' and have the 'hammer of wrath' special rule.

I'm not sure why they'd ever be assaulting tho...

Yeah he never assaults. It's normally jump out, shoot me with something that I can't take an armor save with, the jump back behind cover to eliminate LOS.

I would definitely load up on bikes. Use them to take out his pathfinders. That makes the rest of the army much easier to deal with. This may sound weird, but Tau are super effective at 30" and closer. if you can outshoot him past that point you will have quite an advantage. In other words, snipers, dev squads, things like that. I've played them twice now with my BAs and I've only assaulted the pathfinders, then stayed behind cover, and played objectives and outshot at long range. The guy I play against doesn't have his riptide yet though. That might change some things.

Played 2 2000 pts games against the new tau list and never made it past turn 3. Game 1. Grey knights with 3 LRs & 3 chimeras - surrendered turn 3. Space wolves - 7 drop pods - first 4 included Njal and 3 librarians. Two were full of Termie wolf guard. He denied the witch on 4/5 JOTWW (unbelievable) then pretty much wiped me out. The two units remaining then failed pinning checks. Didn't even bother with turn 3. Going to try white scars flanking or BA LR spam next. Or looking at other threads, maybe DA LR spam. Feckin Tau.

Deathwing assault might be effective. The key would be to minimize overwatch shots to avoid deaths from torrent. The only AP1-2 weapons that tau have are plasma rifles and fusion blasters (which are on suits) and heavy rail rifles and railguns (broadsides and tanks). So, if you can hit the flanks with a deathwing assault and tie some stuff up, you should be able to disrupt him enough to get ravenwing in. The biggest thing though is to play the mission, don't get preoccupied with killing units that do not serve the direct purpose of gaining more points than your opponent. If he plays suit heavy, a good way to do this is to prioritize killing his troops choices, which might be slim if hes spending all his points on suits. Also, MSU can help mitigate firepower advantages, especially if hes using markerlights.

Those are just my thoughts as a Tau player though.

 Invasive Rhamnus wrote:
Deathwing assault might be effective. The key would be to minimize overwatch shots to avoid deaths from torrent. The only AP1-2 weapons that tau have are plasma rifles and fusion blasters (which are on suits) and heavy rail rifles and railguns (broadsides and tanks). So, if you can hit the flanks with a deathwing assault and tie some stuff up, you should be able to disrupt him enough to get ravenwing in. The biggest thing though is to play the mission, don't get preoccupied with killing units that do not serve the direct purpose of gaining more points than your opponent. If he plays suit heavy, a good way to do this is to prioritize killing his troops choices, which might be slim if hes spending all his points on suits. Also, MSU can help mitigate firepower advantages, especially if hes using markerlights.

Those are just my thoughts as a Tau player though.

MSU is a great idea if you know you're playing Tau, as that helps nulify some of his markerlight bonuses.

If you are going to DS DW I'd suggest 2 units as he will most likely have interceptor on his suits and one squad will get shot to ribbons before it can do anything. And always take at LEAST 1 TH/SS in each squad of DW.

 Invasive Rhamnus wrote:
Deathwing assault might be effective. The key would be to minimize overwatch shots to avoid deaths from torrent. The only AP1-2 weapons that tau have are plasma rifles and fusion blasters (which are on suits) and heavy rail rifles and railguns (broadsides and tanks).

You have forgotten riptide ap2 pie plates, which make a mockery of deathwing assaults. I would try ravenwing personally.

Played 2 times against the new tau so far using grey knights.

My biggest problem at the moment is target priority. In the first game i focused on his heavy support first (broadside, hammerhead and a skyray) and was destroyed by his firewarriors and pathfinders. In the second game i tried to take those out first and was picked apart by his support (broadside, riptide and skyray).

 Mywik wrote:
Played 2 times against the new tau so far using grey knights.

My biggest problem at the moment is target priority. In the first game i focused on his heavy support first (broadside, hammerhead and a skyray) and was destroyed by his firewarriors and pathfinders. In the second game i tried to take those out first and was picked apart by his support (broadside, riptide and skyray).

I feel like GK are just a bad match up against Tau. Tau can take away cover and have some good AP2 guns, and GK just doesn't have a high enough model count. I doubt its impossible, but its an uphill climb for the GK.

I have played the new Tau all of once at 1850. I play a DW centered army and I had no trouble with the Riptide as I cornered all his suits using DWA on turn 1 with three 5 man squads of DW and Belial leading one of them. By the end of turn 2 I had killed 2 squads of suits, his riptide, all but 4 fire warriors and made Eldrad run off the table as he was attached to the Riptide and he failed his leadership (he needed snake eyes because I multi-assulted into the riptide and a full squad of suits and he lost combat by 7). After that his Farsight bomb came in from reserves and I just don't have an answer for that at the moment.

All in all I believe the key to putting pressure on Tau is to get in their face early and into assault. If you can survive the interceptor shooting you have a good shot at screwing up his game plan royally.

Did he have interceptor on his riptides? I have cleared a three squad DWA off the table turn one thanks to interceptor on ion riptides.

Consdering he couldn't assault on his first turn, the riptides and suits would have had atleast a turn to shoot him and get out of the way anyway. Probably bad deployment issues. Terminators, if placed well, can box things in quite well and unless he doesn't get a good JPJ he's not going far.

I'd take LRs, Deathwing will get shot up (too pricey).
Banner of Dev in LR, take 2 and some bikes, or 1 and some bikes for extra shooting and being mobile.

Yes he had interceptor on both squads of suits and his riptide.

So I am thinking Azrael, DW Knights, Black Knights, and more bikes to try and combat the Tau. Perhaps the plasma will help with the suits?

 Havok210 wrote:
So I am thinking Azrael, DW Knights, Black Knights, and more bikes to try and combat the Tau. Perhaps the plasma will help with the suits?

Lacannons are the best thing for suits (minus the riptide) and it instant kills them. Land Raiders with TW LC are your friends. Plus it gets you some extra range.

Tried again with a BA list, spamming Land raiders. He gave up after turn 3

 squall018 wrote:

 Havok210 wrote:
So I am thinking Azrael, DW Knights, Black Knights, and more bikes to try and combat the Tau. Perhaps the plasma will help with the suits?

Lacannons are the best thing for suits (minus the riptide) and it instant kills them. Land Raiders with TW LC are your friends. Plus it gets you some extra range.

Or spend considerably less points if youre willing to lose the ability to kill broadsides from single shots (they generally have missile drones up front) and go missile launchers S8 AP3 sort of a screw your crisis suit button.

The following has worked for me against my main opponent who plays Tau:

1) 3-bike squad with 2 Flamers. You can upgrade the Sgt with a combi-weapon if you have the points. They're dirt cheap. You take 1-2 squads of them, outflank and burn his pathfinders alive.

2) Belial with TH/SS + 10 Deathwing Knights*. He will be so scared of this non-scattering unit that he'll pour his whole army into shooting them. Now, if you're going to employ this tactic, you have to build your army around it by DWA-ing more squads of termies with them. Because interceptor will take its toll. Even if Belial and 2-3 knights survive interceptor, they can still smite riptides/broadsides/hammerheads and vaporize his troops in combat. You do this by bringing cheap scout sniper squads as troops. At 36" range they can stay away from his firewarriors' firepower, sit on a home objective or two and take pot shots at his riptides.

3) Ravenwing Knights/RW Command Squads. Again, build your army around them so that you have multiple units and lots of bikers on top of them. Target saturation is age old and still works. Consider MSU with this as well. You've got 6 troops slots for RAS + 3 fast attack slots for RWK. The RWK plasma (and don't forget that grenade launcher to lower his T) is the bane of his crisis/riptides and naked RAS squads with the standard of devastation have been proven to work.

4) Whirlwinds! They're dirt dirt dirt cheap and can hide from his railgun shots. Hell, they're 65 points, if he's shooting his railgun at them so be it. A S4 AP5 shot denying cover is another pathfinder killer to go with those cheap outflanking flamer bikes. And the S5 AP4 template can kill any foolish firewarriors that aren't in cover.

That's the smathering of tactics and units that I use and I have yet to lose to him since his new codex came out. Granted, we've only played 4 games, but 4-0 is 4-0.

As a Tau player the thorn that is in my side currently from my friends DA army are Whirlwinds. Those things are nasty and need to be burned with fire.

Anything that is fast or can bring the fight to my doorstep such as bikes and deepstriking termies are annoying as hell.

Finally!
Played another 3 games against the tau. Lost with a DA TAC list (bit unlucky actually - lost an objective in last turn of game because a sniper rifle barrel was poking out a window which made it visible. Not happy bunny).

Then lost with SW - centred on 3 long fang units with priests. Close; but night fighting meant i lost a turn of shooting which was enough to lose first blood.

Then.... built a GK list specifically designed for Tau. I don't imagine it will work as TAC but it certainly did a first class job on those pesky tau. 3DKs (incinerators and teleport) 2 Interceptor squads - 2 incinerators each, combat squadded. Mordrak + 5 ghosts and then Coteaz and 2 units of acolytes.

Bit lucky with deployement (dawn of war) meant his troops were strung out and the ADL could only do so much. And i went first.

Coteaz sat on the back line with the acolytes on top of 2 objectives and I shunted the rest right into his face on turn 1. 7 incinerators wiped out all his pathfinders, his sniper drones and a full squad of fire-warriors; only darkstrider (?) left. His riptide, hammerhead, 10 crisis suits and farsight made a bit of mess of my interceptors in return; only 6 left standing by end of turn 1; and 2 ghosts down - but all DKs still running. Mordrak failed panic check twice during the game as the ghost knights kept getting shot but it was over by end of turn 3. He had Farsight + 3 suits left.

DK killed the riptide with one wound by powering force weapon (makes short work ) All in all most satisfying.

We play a 'bully' system though so in other words a list stays until its beaten which means my GK list is up against something else next week which may well be specifically designed to take it out. Anything mech should do the trick. Incinerators great against tau but not much cop against land raiders....

I didn't think you could target infantry weapons. I thought it had to be main body. It gives the example that you can't draw LOS to tails, wings, and various appendages and firgured it was the same for gun barrels and CC weapons.

DanFST wrote:
Not sure if you've been made aware, it was previously FAQ'd that crisis suits are no longer Jump Jet units. So can only move 6 then jump in the assault move.

Im 95% sure it's the same in the new codex. It means they cant hide behind a wall. jump over then jump back sadly!

95% wrong sadly; jetpack units still ignore impeeding terrain when making their movements. They can land on top of a building, behind a wall, inside a hole, or even on the top of that 60 inch impassable tower right next to them.

I've actually had to argue that a few times. Some people tried arguing that I could only move 6" up with jetpacks, or forward and up if I wasn't against the wall. I tried point out that I have the ability to clear the wall entirely with my jet pack, but somehow not the ability to land on top of it. Not high enough to prevent me from jumping over, too tall to land on top. It's one of my least favorite arguments to get into.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I've actually had to argue that a few times. Some people tried arguing that I could only move 6" up with jetpacks, or forward and up if I wasn't against the wall. I tried point out that I have the ability to clear the wall entirely with my jet pack, but somehow not the ability to land on top of it. Not high enough to prevent me from jumping over, too tall to land on top. It's one of my least favorite arguments to get into.

its right in the damn book, Jetpack models can land on impassable terrain if you can place a model on it; page 47, bottom of the page