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First of all, is it in any way, shape or form competitive? My meta is small (been playing mostly against Tau and Eldar) but it's done well there
HQ: Rune Priest: 100

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: 110
Saga of the Hunter, CombiMelta, WC

Elites: Wolf Scouts: 135 ] x 2
x6 PlasGun 2xPlasPistol

Wolf Guard: 23 ] x 3
CombiPlas

Wolf Guard: 43
CombiMelta, PF

Troops: Grey Hunters: 160 ] x 2
x5, PlasGun, LasPlas Razorback

Grey Hunters: 115
x5, Melta, Rhino

Heavy: Long Fangs: 155] x 3
x6, 4x ML, Las

Wolf Guard Battle Leader And Melta, PF WG roll w/ Melta GHs and outflank.
Scouts and WG use Behing Enemy Lines
Unconventional yes, but you likey?
Thanks for checking it, been meaning to get this list dakka approved for a while

Do the scouts get to use Behind Enemy Lines with an attached WG ? Admittedly i have not read my 'dex ( or the FAQ ) lately and i am just unsure as to if they can or not with an IC in the squad.

yes they can. as long as the model is not in terminator armor. in addition, the 6e rules for acute senses let them reroll where they arrive on the table, so it's a good bet they're going where you need em. (1 left edge, 2 right edge, 3 opponent's edge, 4+ your choice) Also the Wolf Guard are not ICs. The WGBL is, but Saga of the Hunter allows his unit to outflank

Halp please?

That's a cool thing with Behind Enemy Lines then.I use scouts in my codex SM army,so will have to get my hands on some for my wolves as well.

As to the list,i am not a big fan at all of combat squads.They die far too easily ( in my experience ) and 3 troops units is going to make it hard as a lot of missions ( except relic obviously ) are objective heavy now.

As it stands now,hordes will be a problem as well should you face 'nids,IG or orks in the future.

Maybe move the list up to 1750 or even 2k,filling out the remaining GH squads to 10 and 2 special weapons with rhino's and bringing in a fourth,plus giving the WG a Razorback of their own ?

The WG are actually attached to the different GH squads as sergeants. You do have a point with hordes, but LF frag spam has been remarkably effective with hordes in the past.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ha just looked at the original post: there are actually 3 LF squads. Makes a bit of a difference yeah?

Yeah.Missed that when I looked over the list the first time.

I don't think this is a competitive list at 1500 points. Let me make a list why I think so.

1) You only have 10 grey hunters, broken up into 2 units of 5. It would be WAY too easy to kill off those units leaving you with nothing to capture objectives.

2) I assume that you will have 3 units outflanking / behind enemy lines - two scout units and one GH unit with the WGBL. There is no guarantee that they will arrive on the same turn or in the same place, and if they don't they'll be destroyed one unit at a time. Therefore, you're really gambling that the dice will favor you. Also remember that if your opponent has anything with the "Interceptor" rule - like a quad gun - he'll get a free shot at units arriving from reserve. So your outflanking units will probably have to eat 4 twin-linked S7 AP4 shots before they can shoot or assault. That's pretty much a death sentence for your scouts.

3) The rest of your army (ie long fangs) can shoot pretty well, but only if they don't move. That means you LF's are going to hang back in your deployment zone - obviously - which prevents them from contesting any objectives.

If was playing against this list with just about any army, I would camp on objectives in my own deployment zone, wait for your outflankers to arrive and promptly blow them away. And incidentally, both Tau and Eldar should easily be able to kill a small unit of 6 or 8 space marines with just pulse rifles / shuriken catapults. Once that's done, all of my troops would just go to ground behind cover and weather the storm of krak missiles from your Long Fangs. You would have no chance of winning because you wouldn't be able to claim any objectives and the stuff that could have contested one of my objectives would be dead.

So here's what I suggest;
1) You need more troops. Lots more. At 1500 points, you should have 30 Grey Hunters or more.

2) I'm not a fan of scouts, but since you're going for an outflanking list, here is my recommendation. Drop the wolf guard entirely - they're overpriced the way you're using them and they're taking up an elites slot. Get 3 units of 10 wolf scouts. Don't take power weapons or plasma pistols - they're a waste of points.

3) WGBL's are also overpriced and don't actually amplify your units at all. If you want a character with Saga of the Hunter, use a Wolf Priest. But it might be that 3 units of wolf scouts is enough outflankers.

4) The Long Fangs look nice but if you're short on points, drop one squad of LF's and all of the Lascannons.

5) Same with the Rune Priest. He may seem obligatory - especially against Eldar - but not against Tau. If you're short on points for the other stuff I've mentioned, you should consider dropping the RP to save points for the other stuff.

How about swapping out 1 of the LF packs for a Vindicator ?

Thanks for the advice guys.

I like the idea of Vindicator for sure, and will try that out next game.
About the randomness of the scouts, I feel like you're underestimating their ability to reliably arrive where they need to be (though when is a different story). And yes, my Tau friend was late on the EWO partytrain but well he found it. Intercepting Riptides are NASSTYY to anyone trying to deepstrike/outflank. Is there any way to counter them? I can't think of one at the moment and was going to steer away from drop podding/outflanking lists. If you could convince me otherwise I'd be more than grateful as they are my favorite kind of lists to play

The only counter I know of for interceptor would be to drop / come in outside of the weapons range.Pretty basic I know,but it is all I have.

How about swapping one scout squad over to melta ? Just as a little bit of extra tank killing insurance.

Pedro Kantor wrote:Do the scouts get to use Behind Enemy Lines with an attached WG ? Admittedly i have not read my 'dex ( or the FAQ ) lately and i am just unsure as to if they can or not with an IC in the squad.

No, you can't use OBEL if you attach any Character to the pack. The FAQ made it so unfortunately. I used to bring my Wolf Scouts with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader and attached IC with Saga of the Hunter. But between the changes to OBEL and not being able to assault on the turn they arrive, my Wolf Scouts are shelved. They were a terror in 5th edition. Shame really.

Pedro Kantor wrote:How about swapping out 1 of the LF packs for a Vindicator ?

Vindicators need to be run in pairs and they are limited in what they can effect. Space Wolves don't normally have problems with massive amounts of infantry so they don't actually bring anything truly worthwhile unless you are running a fully mechanized list.

Grugknuckle wrote:I don't think this is a competitive list at 1500 points. Let me make a list why I think so.

1) You only have 10 grey hunters, broken up into 2 units of 5. It would be WAY too easy to kill off those units leaving you with nothing to capture objectives.

2) I assume that you will have 3 units outflanking / behind enemy lines - two scout units and one GH unit with the WGBL. There is no guarantee that they will arrive on the same turn or in the same place, and if they don't they'll be destroyed one unit at a time. Therefore, you're really gambling that the dice will favor you. Also remember that if your opponent has anything with the "Interceptor" rule - like a quad gun - he'll get a free shot at units arriving from reserve. So your outflanking units will probably have to eat 4 twin-linked S7 AP4 shots before they can shoot or assault. That's pretty much a death sentence for your scouts.

3) The rest of your army (ie long fangs) can shoot pretty well, but only if they don't move. That means you LF's are going to hang back in your deployment zone - obviously - which prevents them from contesting any objectives.

If was playing against this list with just about any army, I would camp on objectives in my own deployment zone, wait for your outflankers to arrive and promptly blow them away. And incidentally, both Tau and Eldar should easily be able to kill a small unit of 6 or 8 space marines with just pulse rifles / shuriken catapults. Once that's done, all of my troops would just go to ground behind cover and weather the storm of krak missiles from your Long Fangs. You would have no chance of winning because you wouldn't be able to claim any objectives and the stuff that could have contested one of my objectives would be dead.

Everything said here is dead on. When you are building a force, don't skimp on your Troops! Troops and Objectives are what win games in 6th edition. The rest of what Grugknuckle says is one way of doing things. Before I get into what I'd do let's recap your list:

astro_nomicon wrote:HQ: Rune Priest: 100

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: 110
Saga of the Hunter, CombiMelta, WC

Elites: Wolf Scouts: 135 ] x 2
x6 PlasGun 2xPlasPistol

Wolf Guard: 23 ] x 3
CombiPlas

Wolf Guard: 43
CombiMelta, PF

Troops: Grey Hunters: 160 ] x 2
x5, PlasGun, LasPlas Razorback

Grey Hunters: 115
x5, Melta, Rhino

Heavy: Long Fangs: 155] x 3
x6, 4x ML, Las

I love the Wolf Guard Battle Leader. I myself have used one with that exact setup in 500-1000 point games. The better combat capability was usually the deciding factor for me. Keep in mind that a Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter costs the same amount of points though. I think you will want to give him a try, for reasons I'll get into at the end.

Your Wolf Guard are not doing much. You don't want them with your Wolf Scouts anymore, as it means you can't Infiltrate or OBEL. You definitely want them with your Grey Hunters though.

Speaking of which, you need more! Especially since if you put your WGBL with one they can Outflank. I'd beef them up a bit. Drop one of your Long Fang units and fill out those Grey hunters. You need 20-30 for 1500 point games I find.

I don't like your Wolf Scouts. I hate Plasma Pistols, they are too expensive for what they do. Also, keep in mind that the Space Wolf FAQ says this:

Page 88 – Wolf Scouts Pack, Options, last bullet point.
Change “Up to two Wolf Scouts may replace their bolt pistol
with:”to “Up to two Wolf Scouts may take:”

This, coupled with the other options, gives you some tactical choices when picking wargear for the pack. I'd also keep in mind that Wolf Scouts are skirmishers. They are not tank busters really, especially now that they can't bring a Wolf Guard and OBEL, unless you grab Melta Bombs. If it were me, and I really wanted to play with Wolf Scouts in 6th Edition, I'd do something like this:

Wolf Scouts - 200 Or 209 if you replace the Bolt Pistols and CCW for the first three Wolf Scouts with Sniper Rifles)
1 w/ Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Mark of the Wulfen
1 w/ Flamer, Close Combat Weapon, Power Weapon (Sword or possibly Mace)
1 w/ Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon (Sword or possibly Mace)
7 w/ Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon

or if you insist on being shooty:

Wolf Scouts - 210
2 w/ Bolt Pistol, Plasma Pistol
1 w/ Plasma Gun, Mark of the Wulfen
7 w/ Bolt Pistol, Bolter

Obviously, drop generic Scouts as needed to lower the point cost of the unit. For the first unit, consider Melta Bombs if you need anti-vehicle. My main point of this is threefold:

1) The wargear options on a per model basis are very customizable with the Wolf Scouts. You can do thinks to make sure you get every bonus you can on each model.

Take the first example unit: Mark of the Wulfen replaces the normal attacks for the model and it doesn't matter if you have any close combat weapons as you don't get bonuses from having more than one. Likewise, you can end up with 3 weapons that count as close combat weapons for getting a bonus attack, so add some firepower. At the same time, you want to be able to shoot with every model and charge if you get the opportunity, so make sure you replace the close combat weapon with the Bolters when you can.

2) The role of the Wolf Scout (at least the ones that OBEL) has changed. Before, the game was about people in metal boxes sitting as far back as possible and shooting you. Now the game is different. Vehicles aren't as brokenly invulnerable as they once were. You can't win the game without going out and grabbing an Objective, and you can't grab it if you are in a metal box. You aren't as likely to run into back field vehicles that you need to hit on the rear armor.

You are however, more likely to need to deny an Objective to an opponent. So kit out the Wolf Scouts to dislodge someone. This means taking casualties, and needing a bunch of weapons that can mess up even MEQ. You may also get counter-charged by the enemy if they can't shoot you off the board. At the same time, you probably shouldn't take on Genestealers or other hard assault units. Those are likely to be midfield or in your own lines anyways. So really you just need volume.

3) Wolf Scouts offer you flexibility in your Deployment. I wouldn't make a list explicitly so you can OBEL with Wolf Scouts. Rather, I'd kit out the Scouts so they can do a few different things. Depending how your opponent deploys you may want to Infiltrate + Scout rather than Outflank. Don't limit yourself to always Outflanking and only being useful for a Hail Mary shot at a vehicle's rear armor.

I'd think about what you are wanting your Wolf Scouts to accomplish and what they actually need to accomplish. To be frank, I wouldn't take them if you are bringing Saga of the Hunter at this point level. Crank it up to 1850-2000 points and you got enough leeway to really start to have fun with your deployment options.

astro_nomicon wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys.

I like the idea of Vindicator for sure, and will try that out next game.
About the randomness of the scouts, I feel like you're underestimating their ability to reliably arrive where they need to be (though when is a different story). And yes, my Tau friend was late on the EWO partytrain but well he found it. Intercepting Riptides are NASSTYY to anyone trying to deepstrike/outflank. Is there any way to counter them? I can't think of one at the moment and was going to steer away from drop podding/outflanking lists. If you could convince me otherwise I'd be more than grateful as they are my favorite kind of lists to play

Actually, I'm less concerned about WHERE they end up as I am concerned about WHEN they show up. With three units in reserve, the odds of them all coming onto the board on the same turn are very very small. If you're very lucky, you'll get two of those units to arrive on the same turn in the same place. But that's still ONLY 10 MODELS which isn't scary at all. Even without a unit of interceptors, you can easily kill 5 or 6 space marines in one round of shooting. At that point, your outflankers are reduced to a minor annoyance. It seems silly to base your entire strategy for winning the game around this kind of tactic without at least putting 30 - 40 models into outflank mode. You've only put about 15.

I don't think that outflanking lists are going to work in 6th Edition. Which is too bad because I had always loved my scouts. In any case, the biggest problem with the list you've given me is that it doesn't have nearly enough troops.