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With a wonderful addition of a new Razorback, I'm shuffling lists around, and trying to fit to more typical list sizes.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback or suggestions; both in terms of improving the list and in terms of what I should be adding next (I'm currently thinking another Razorback).

Here's the 500 list:

Space Marine Captain with Power Fist and Artificer Armor
5 man Tactical Squad
5 man Tactical Squad
5 man Sternguard Squad in a Razorback (HB)
Melta Bombs on one of the sarges to round out to 500 exactly

Here's the 1000 list:

Space Marine Captain with Power Fist, Hellfire rounds, and Artificer Armor
10 man Tactical Squad with ML and Flamer, melta bombs
5 man Tactical Squad in a Razorback w/TL Lascannon
8 man Sternguard Squad with Power Fist, one combi-flamer, and a missile launcher, in a Land Raider godshammer
There is essentially 80 points of filler in this one -- the hellfire rounds, the melta bombs, the TL lascannon upgrade, and the 8th sternguard with ML. All are situationally useful, but not too optimal.

The 750 list is a bit more problematic; it's the 1000 point list but without the Land Raider, which leaves me in a poor position transport-wise.

The only other models I have that I could legally use but haven't included are a terrible dev squad load out -- 5 man squad with 2 lascannons, a missile launcher, and a heavy bolter. 190 points and no good target.

Thoughts? I'm trying to emphasize sternguard as these seem to be the all around champs of our codex. For the 1500 point and 1750 point variants of the list, I'll be allying in Eldar with two farseers, which is why I am leaning away from libbies -- although they are a more efficient character than the cap'ns.

Cheers,

V

Your 1000p list looks good.

500 lacks antitank weaponry try to find points for TLLC on RB.

750 drop the LR and 2 Vets. Give the rest Razorback

For the 500, combine the 2 five man squads, grab the free ML and spend the extra 10 points for a meltagun on the tac squad and one on the sternguard. No weak-ass combi-melta, there's only five of them there, leave the TAC squad to get that boltgun action on, so screw special ammunition. 15pts for artificer armour? I dont think so! If anything's going to ignore that 3+ chances are it will get through 2+ as it will be some git with plasma gun. Another meltagun for the sternguard, huzzah! And 2 combi-flamers, double huzzah!!

edit; oh yeah and the other stuff, what he said^^^. Could also cut back on a few of those accessories, man do they churn through points like a hot knife through butter.

If you're looking for a champion HQ in this situation, consider a chaplain. With the meltaguns the reduction to S6 isn't terrible, and he gives rerolls on the charge + fearless. All for 40pts less than your current captain and retains the 4++. Plus with sternguards base 2 attacks it can catch some with their pants down. If you want to put a sternguard unit in a raider, dont take a ML. Get 2 meltaguns and a bunch of combi-flamers. Then with the fist (a bit random but hey the model comes with it) you can confidently walk into hordes and vehicles.

Thanks, gents. If I consolidate the squads in the 500 list, that will leave me with an illegal list (only one troops choice).

That being said, it does need better antitank than just a power fist, so I will need to drop the sternguard and go with two larger tac squads - something along the lines of captain as above, full size tac squad with flamer and ML, TLLC razorback, 5 man tac squad, and a few points left over.

The artificer armor is fantastic. In hand to hand or when taking small arms fire, I can use his 2+ save to dramatically reduce unsaved wounds. Typically once he has a wound on him, I start going to LOS or allocating HTH wounds elsewhere, but I find he tanks a fair amount of incoming fire in a typical game. Against Dathwing? Useless. Against Tau, Orks, Tyranids, etc.? Worth far more than its points. I will, however, point out that I was highly skeptical as well until I was encouraged to try it by another Dakka contributor.

Your 500 list is fine... I think the Landraider is too much at 1000. You are going to have the sternguard out and firing so they don't need it. A landraider is an assault vehicle and you have no assault... better either spam razorbacks for firepower or spam rhinos for protection.

Here's the 1000 list:

Space Marine Captain with Power Fist, Hellfire rounds, and Artificer Armor 155
10 man Tactical Squad with ML and Flamer, melta bombs w TL Las Razorback 245
10 man Tactical Squad with ML and Flamer, melta bombs w TL Las Razorback 245
5 man Sternguard w TL Las Razorback 200
5 man Sternguard 125
ADL 50 990

This gives you the ability to combat squad your two tacs and leave all your support behind the wall to get the good saving throws... As you expand your force you need some more support and definitely some speed. I would also add the quad gun.

So to take your force to 1500
1 TL Las Razorback 75 (for 2nd sternguard)
Quad gun 50
Then perhaps a full bike squad or two attack bike squads or if you prefer some landspeeders to provide you with speed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, I think the Las/Plas razorback is superior but it does require some modeling skills.

That's a tight list, DA! Obviously I won't be able to field it for this Friday night, but something along those lines is certainly something to work towards. It does help solidify another Razorback as my next project.

I do like the idea of the las/plas, I have been meaning to look into what bits I will need to get the job done.

V

Vanilla marines are my main army as well and I agree that sternguard are now a must take as mine have taken out more than their fair share of bad guys. So I feel they've earned their way into every single one of my army builds. This is a list I've used before for 1000 points games and have had some luck with it....

Kantor - 175
10 man Tac Squad with melta, MM, rhino - 210
10 man Tac Squad with plasma, PC, rhino - 235
10 man Sternguard with 2 meltas, 2 combi weapons, PF, drop pod - 330

That's 950 points. The last 50 is a toss up depending on my opponent. A lone attack bike with MM can be fun but usually dies pretty quick. I've had luck with running it from rhino to rhino blocking LOS and then rush to something with an armor value. Or instead of the attack bike I add in an ADL for some added cover if needed. If you like the razorbacks then with that last 50 points add in the RB's and run the other combat squads behind em to block LOS. I haven't encountered alot of fliers in our little group which is why there's no anti-air in that list. I'd save the raider for 1500+ points as it eats up too many points in my opinion. This list gives you the possibility of having 6 squads that can capture objectives. Hope this helps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verthane wrote:


I do like the idea of the las/plas, I have been meaning to look into what bits I will need to get the job done.

V

If you're interested check out this link. I love to customize and have used this site before. The quality of the resin is good as well. Hope this helps.

http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=37

 Verthane wrote:
That's a tight list, DA! Obviously I won't be able to field it for this Friday night, but something along those lines is certainly something to work towards. It does help solidify another Razorback as my next project.

I do like the idea of the las/plas, I have been meaning to look into what bits I will need to get the job done.

V

It takes a little bravery but I have found you need two plasma guns and a plastic snipper. You take one of the TL Las cannons and change the mount to form the bottom of the lascannon and then snip off the pistol grips and shoulder pad from the plasma guns. Just mount one to either side and put the razorback cowling over the top. It looks really nice.

 rahxephon wrote:
15pts for artificer armour? I dont think so! If anything's going to ignore that 3+ chances are it will get through 2+

Most SM and Chaos HQs have power swords, ap3. In challenge with that kind of HQ, 2+ armour gives you edge against him.

But yeah, Reclusiarch is a good, solid choice for HQ. 130p basic cost, buffs your squad, 4+ Inv, a free power weapon.
I don't have the book right now, so what ap is his weapon? I don't think it's ap3...

 soomemafia wrote:

 rahxephon wrote:
15pts for artificer armour? I dont think so! If anything's going to ignore that 3+ chances are it will get through 2+

Most SM and Chaos HQs have power swords, ap3. In challenge with that kind of HQ, 2+ armour gives you edge against him.

But yeah, Reclusiarch is a good, solid choice for HQ. 130p basic cost, buffs your squad, 4+ Inv, a free power weapon.
I don't have the book right now, so what ap is his weapon? I don't think it's ap3...

C:SM has chaplains, not reclusiarchs. Very good bare-bones HQ to lead assault troops. They come with a power maul. While a sword is better against MEQ, the maul is better against everything else. AP4 is good for smiting Xenos, and the +2S is just good all around. And if you consider most marine HQs come with an invuln save, AP4 just means you are going against the 3+ rather then the 4++ (or 3++ if they have a SS) Not the all or nothing you'd think.

Good points overall in this thread.

The only thing I'd add would be the addition of a TFC at the 1000pt range instead of the LR

Its surprising how effective this thing is, especially in small point games

Hope that helps

Thanks, folks, as mentioned, this has been a very helpful thread!