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2013/05/06 05:16:48
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
Not really. Compare to an IG veteran squad with 3x melta guns in a Chimera, for 10 points more you get BS 4 melta (33% more firepower for 7% more points). The bolters are not terrible, but when you're shooting out of a Chimera they don't really matter. The main reason acolyte squads are good is that they're in GK, a codex that is full of expensive units. Taking Coteaz lets you bring your necessary scoring units with plenty of room left for the expensive toys, but outside of that specific role the units aren't really all that impressive.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/05/06 05:38:35
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
There are lots of interesting combos possible with henchmen, although the most commonly-seen tend to be the min-costs scorers in psybolt razorbacks, the deathcult/warrior(now usually with Banisher for daemons) assault ball of death, or the occasional multi-plasma sit behind an aegis and shoot unit. A friend of mine occasionally runs a largish squad with all storm bolters in a chimera, and sometimes throws a Jokaero in with them. A Jokaero making those 20-odd storm bolter shots longer ranged, or rending, is pretty lulzy and can actually be effective as well.
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Lol know what you mean that annoys me as well. Whats even more scary is that if you dropped all the bolters you would have 28 points to spend. Of you dropped a whole team as well you would have 90 points to spend. 1 less AV13 hull but that extra 90 points could go to a few Assault Cannon upgrades. Not the best at dealing with Heavy Armour but deacent and the list doesn't have anything to deal with AV14. Its possible to get a Leman Russ or a Battle Wagon into a 500 point list and they will be a pain to deal with if your only running S6 spam. Las/Pas could be a good option also and if taken Psybolt ammo could be dropped to get more points elsewhere.
Still a really good list though.
2013/05/06 07:59:03
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
It is a pretty brutal list for 500 pts and can table most other 500 pt armies with little effort.
I personally like the S7 AC razorbacks to cart them around but it is a lot more points.
Fixed the top part for you. Those psybacks are still amazing.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote: So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
2013/05/06 19:30:41
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
Sinji wrote: Lol know what you mean that annoys me as well. Whats even more scary is that if you dropped all the bolters you would have 28 points to spend. Of you dropped a whole team as well you would have 90 points to spend. 1 less AV13 hull but that extra 90 points could go to a few Assault Cannon upgrades. Not the best at dealing with Heavy Armour but deacent and the list doesn't have anything to deal with AV14. Its possible to get a Leman Russ or a Battle Wagon into a 500 point list and they will be a pain to deal with if your only running S6 spam. Las/Pas could be a good option also and if taken Psybolt ammo could be dropped to get more points elsewhere.
Still a really good list though.
Yeah that is why I personally prefer the AC variant.
@Coyote81: LoL yeah they are brutal. Cheap and brutal.
2013/05/06 23:00:59
Subject: Re:Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
500-point list gimmicks aside, does anyone run GKs with cheap scorers? Whether in a Razorback or Chimera. I actually think it's sort of a wash between the two of them. 12 10 10 on the Chimera, 11 11 10 on the Razorback. Comparable firepower, almost the same points cost.
Where they differ is transport capacity. The Chimera is clearly meant to carry value troops, which is what's tickling me about the GK list right now.
2013/05/06 23:22:15
Subject: Re:Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
CDRAlbrecht wrote: 500-point list gimmicks aside, does anyone run GKs with cheap scorers? Whether in a Razorback or Chimera. I actually think it's sort of a wash between the two of them. 12 10 10 on the Chimera, 11 11 10 on the Razorback. Comparable firepower, almost the same points cost.
Where they differ is transport capacity. The Chimera is clearly meant to carry value troops, which is what's tickling me about the GK list right now.
What you are not realizing is that is not a gimmick. It is the basis of a 3x dreadknight + vindicator list at higher point levels.
Or an addition of a lot of troop squads and board control for only 500 pts. The AC version is actually one of the better mech lists in the game and can easily (due to the low pts cost) be combined with a necron or IG aircav list so you can get your cake too.
The chimera is the troop carrier as you can fire from it. The Razorback brings much more firepower but at the cost that your troop choice when embarked is rendered nearly pointless. I have no idea how you think a BS4 TL-Str 7 AC(rending) is comparable to a BS3 multilaser(S6) in terms of firepower? One is a serious threat to any AV12- vehicle or any unit, and is a semi reasonable threat to AV13+ vehicles. The chimera exchanges this fire power for +1 AV (not insignificant at all) and 5 fire points so monkeys and psykers can do some damage from it.
2013/05/07 00:28:06
Subject: Re:Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
CDRAlbrecht wrote: 500-point list gimmicks aside, does anyone run GKs with cheap scorers? Whether in a Razorback or Chimera. I actually think it's sort of a wash between the two of them. 12 10 10 on the Chimera, 11 11 10 on the Razorback. Comparable firepower, almost the same points cost.
Where they differ is transport capacity. The Chimera is clearly meant to carry value troops, which is what's tickling me about the GK list right now.
What you are not realizing is that is not a gimmick. It is the basis of a 3x dreadknight + vindicator list at higher point levels.
Or an addition of a lot of troop squads and board control for only 500 pts. The AC version is actually one of the better mech lists in the game and can easily (due to the low pts cost) be combined with a necron or IG aircav list so you can get your cake too.
The chimera is the troop carrier as you can fire from it. The Razorback brings much more firepower but at the cost that your troop choice when embarked is rendered nearly pointless. I have no idea how you think a BS4 TL-Str 7 AC(rending) is comparable to a BS3 multilaser(S6) in terms of firepower? One is a serious threat to any AV12- vehicle or any unit, and is a semi reasonable threat to AV13+ vehicles. The chimera exchanges this fire power for +1 AV (not insignificant at all) and 5 fire points so monkeys and psykers can do some damage from it.
What I was calling comparable were the bare bones version of the Chimera and Razorback, with the Razorback being given Psybolts. Upgrading the Razor to a TLAC makes it 80 points, so I don't know how -you- could think I was comparing those two. It's a 25pt difference at that point. We might as well be talking about Rhinos vs. Razorbacks.
(other people were talking about how epic some of the Razor upgrades are in GK, but I was only ever talking about the vehicles out of the box.)
No, I didn't realize it wasn't just a 500-point gimmick, but since that was the whole focus of the discussion, hopefully you can see where I got that impression.
2013/05/07 02:31:19
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
Though even without the AC upgrade it is still the difference between 2 hits and ~3 hits with the bolter being AP 5 which does help and for 10 pts less. I agree though that the chimera is probably better if you want the henchmen to actually do something besides possibly score but that will cost you ~30 more points.
GK without upgrades...I think that may be heresy what with them being the favored child of the inquisition and all.
Yeah think of it this way, for 500 pts you can take 1 HQ and 6 scoring units with a solid S6 shooting abilities. For only 210 pts more you make that S7 rending shooting (pretty awesome). Then you can start stacking goodies like the psyker go boom flyer, the aliens robot knockoff, or a draigowing. 500 pts is almost nothing if you think about what you just gained. You can even play a grandmaster/3x teleporting dreadknight list if you stay with HB razorbacks (which saves you 60 pts over the chimeras).
The funny thing is that the AC razorbacks are even decent against flyers.
2013/05/07 03:04:22
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
I did it on cadians, and I pretty much had to cut the lasguns out of their hands and carve a "u" into the left hand to place the bolter their. I used Deathwatch upgrade kit bolters, they're a little smaller then the plastic bolters they use nowadays, so they look better imo. (Only have those because all my Grey Knights are converted to be Deathwatch Space marines.)
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote: So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
2013/05/07 10:10:10
Subject: Is it me or are Coteaz's warbands with bolters a poinst steal?
It's a 25pt difference at that point. We might as well be talking about Rhinos vs. Razorbacks.
