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I have a DA army and a CSM army currently, started off with the dark vengeance set. I love the game, and I like both my armies, they are both fun to play. At my local Game den I do alright, but the more serious players usually win, 4 out of 5 of them use IG. I will most likly continue using these armies as long as I am in any casual setting.

The problem is I want to try a big event some time this summer and I want to build an army, that if I play well will allow me to get to the top quarter of positions. I'm not saying I will play well and get there, but I'd rather fail because of my mistakes rather than my army.

So here are a few questions?

1. Not considering allies, what do YOU think the 3 most competitive armies are and why?

2. With allies what are the best three combinations you can think off and why?

6. Counting only 6th ed, who is the best army and why?

Thanks in advance!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You don't have to be an expert to answer this, I won't argue with you, just give me your opinions and a little reasoning why. Please and thank you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You don't have to be an expert to answer this, I won't argue with you, just give me your opinions and a little reasoning why. Please and thank you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You don't have to be an expert to answer this, I won't argue with you, just give me your opinions and a little reasoning why. Please and thank you.

1.) Without allies (and assuming NO forgeworld allowed), I would say Necrons, IG and CSM. All 3 have stong flyers. Heldrakes single handedly can turn the tide against many armies. IG have lots of firepower, and cheap troops, Crons have good flyers and Wraiths, as well as a lot of tricks. Tau probably will be up here but that remains to be seen, but I think they will be quite strong.

2.)IG+ Space marine Vaient of your choice. Blob squad with ATSKNF is good, lots of fire power, Marines can give a bit of assault assistance, and psychic support.

Necrons + CSM (Flyer spam Night Scythe/doom Scyth + Heldrakes, Wraiths and Spawn etc.)

Necrons + Grey Knights lots of shooting power, tricks etc.

6.) Do you mean 6th ed only codices (so CSM, DA, Tau, and Daemons.) I would probably say it will end up being Tau. CSM are strong but that is mostly the Heldrake.

I'd like to preface my list by saying that in serious competitive play, your army choice really doesn't have a big effect. It's more important that you, the player, know what you're doing with regards to general tactics, mission strategy and the like. Play an army you're comfortable with and you'll do better than picking up an "internet sanctioned" netlist without knowing how to use it.

1) You can't discount allies with regards to competition. The vast majority of armies are better with allies to fill gaps, increase flexibility and just make the whole better than the sum of its parts. Tyranids are the only exception, and they excel with access to lots of monsters with Biomancy/Telepathy and tons of scoring. Ravenwing dakka banner lists are one of the few monodex builds that can be useful. You want to maximize the number of bikes to get buffed, so spending on allies may not be needed. Of course, a cheap IG blob to hold your backfield is a great inclusion.

2) Any non-GK Marine + IG, Anybody who doesn't have IG as battle brothers + Necrons (allies of convenience only) and Anybody who can take them as AoC or BB + CSM (Heldrake). IG with a marine battle brother enjoy the greatness of the ATSKNF/Fearless blob in addition to all the wonderful options IG and your ally of choice have. The armies that can take Necrons as Allies of Convenience (GK, Orks, Tau, CSM) all share one trait: they don't have very mobile scoring. Necrons can bring 2 solid flyers with cheap, highly mobile scoring with great tank-busting to boot, all for a relatively low cost. Anything else is really a bonus. Finally, Heldrakes are game-changing and pretty much the sole reason to run CSM from a competitive standpoint. Anybody that can add 1 of them stands to gain a lot. The list is far from exclusive, Tau make for great allies, Eldar/DE can be mixed to good effect and Sisters with IG allies are incredibly good.

3) There is no best army. All of the modern codices (5th and onward) have plenty of builds and options that allow them to compete. With the addition of allies, lines blur between books as people are free to cherry pick the parts they like best. Pick something you like, something you're comfortable playing and you'll be fine.

Chumba I smell what your stepping in for sure. I am by no means an expert strategist nor expert in the rules at this point. So far I am loving this multi-tier hobby and I foresee within a year or two i will have at least small armies of almost every codex. What I am really after here is the most competitive for my next build, which I will be trying out at a tournament this summer. Not for the first time mind you, I will try and play as frequently as possible up until then. As it stands I'm averaging 5 games or so a week.

A lot of this also depends on your play-style. Do you like standing back and sending heavy shots and pie-plates down range? IG gun-line is for you.
Do you like getting in dirty with asaults? Blood Angels. Khorne Berserkers, Necron wraiths would suit you better.
Do you want to be a jerk-fac and get a free 250+ points of scoring units in your army? Tervigons are your buddy.
Have you ever wanted to throw 200 models down knowing half of them will be dead by the time you walk across the board, but once your in the guys face you crush him in 1 turn of close-combat? Orcs. Bonus points if you love converting things and have a good sense of humor.
A real pain in the butt is Sisters with Saint Celestine. When she dies (next to your objective) she stays as a marker, then pops back up on a decent dice roll. The marker stays until you get a good roll. Kill her a second time...she keeps coming back.
Worse than Swartzenegger.

Get with guys at your FLGS and ask if you can run proxy armies to test different armies, builds, and units. Use scraps of paper with the model type written on it. Find the army/build that suits your play-style...THEN spend the money to buy those models. It also gives you time to think of a cool theme and paint color for your army.

(EDIT) Since this will be your first Tourny, don't worry to much on your Army build. Whatever you bring, some dude will have the latest net-power build and will proceed to stomp all the Seals...until another dude with his power list beats him or he runs into the guy (gal) with the dice of fire. Build an Army that you like and go to have fun. With zero expectations. Take a camera and get lots of pics of the various armies, both for composition and paint scheme. Never assume the guy that won has the best list. It only takes one failed charge on a dice to turn what should be an easy slaughter into a close loss. Most important for your first event...have fun, meet new people, and start developing the reputation you want to be known by (are you that WAAC player with the latest Internet power list or are you that cool guy with a decent all comers list who knows the rules and can do really well with it? Or are you the guy who loses every game, but walks away with the painting prize because thats your forte'?

The Dark Angels are fun for my play style. I tend to go half my points in two 5 man termi squads, beliel and a 10 man tac/drop pod for my alpha strike, and a gun line of devistators, lib on quad, vindicator and another tac squad or second dev squad backing them up. I tend to like the two pronged attack. Heavy hitters distracting up close right in their back field with some ehavy support bombarding them all game. My basica strategy is jus tto make target priority hard for them. I have no illusions about my chance for success, but, ya know, its always good to try and stack the deck if possible.

If you can handle 3 helldrake lists, 18 wraithlists and have something to deal with a 50 man blob squad then you will be highly competitive. I think both your amries would benefit from taking IG as allies ...

Best overall army goes to either space marines or grey-knights just for having the ATSKKF rule and much better toys than anyother force.

A very honourable mention goes to Orks because:
They can spam 45 Orks with a S7 weapon averageing two shots per turn; without having to break into the heavy support slots. They also act as awesome anti-air, or can go to dakkajets or the other two varieties for air support.

Nobz, Mega Nobz and deff dreads can be swallowed into troop choices. Deff dread with two skorshas for less than 100pts!

Basic orks cost next to nothing.

Deff rollers are by far the best tank-shokking thing in the game and can take out any other armour.

They can spam walkers.

Their bikes get an awesome cover save, and have a S5 Assault 3 TL weapon on each; for cutting throught hordes, getting flyers etc.

One of the few armies which can still assault out of all of their fast transport vehicles; VERY IMPORTANT BONUS. A fully loaded trukk for less than 110pts.

They can even get their hands on 36" range anti-marine ordenance quite cheaply.

Surprisingly orks work quite well with CSMs, either as the lead army or as the allied detachment. Imagine Huron as the CSM leader, infiltrating a 30 strong ork units of shoota boys with a single big shoota in each. Deploy within 18" in sight. Move and shooty and good bye whatever unit you are facing. The CSMs can make up for the orks lack of long range anti-armour weapons.

Facing deep striking terminators or people in cover, solve with a health dose of flamer boys to force multiple saves.

 JoshTheMadTitan wrote:


1. Not considering allies, what do YOU think the 3 most competitive armies are and why?

2. With allies what are the best three combinations you can think off and why?

6. Counting only 6th ed, who is the best army and why?

1. Necrons; wraiths, cheap flyers, very mobile troops which can be kept relatively safe in flyers, mind shackle, cheap effective AV13 barges
Tau; crazy amount of fire power, interceptor and very, very difficult to assault successfully
IG; vendettas, blobs, lots of troops and a tool for every job

2. Necrons and CSM; Necrons plus heldrake for some ap3 goodness
Tau and SM; firepower plus some solid troops
IG and GK; As above with added assault capability

3. Necrons, possibly about to be dethroned by Tau.

Hey just my 2 cents but i strongly agree with dkellyj. finding out what you enjoy playing will greatly increase both the fun factor and your competitive skill. ive seen a ton of guys build and play an aggressive net list only to find that they "don't use it right" cause their natural inclination is to play defensively or viceversa, and its really frustrating for them. so play test some crazy lists with tons of fast moving assault units or tau with redic defensive anti assault camper troops etc. Find that thing that makes you smile when you pull it off and build an army that excels at that. you can always find a "competitive" list that suits a play style imo. i personally run crons, space wolves, and nids. as far as the most competitive or best lists go i mostly agree with djin. But ill say this my space wolves drop pod army regularly puts a whoopin on a bunch of people at local tourneys who run net lists. i still think SW's are a top tier army alone or with/as allies.