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Was playing in a game recently and this came into question, do skimmers get the cover save provided by an Aegis Defense Line?

Is the skimmer 25% obscurred from the firer?

Yup, it's all down to LOS. If the skimmer is sufficiently obscured from the point of view of the firer, then yes, of course it would.

 insaniak wrote:
Yup, it's all down to LOS. If the skimmer is sufficiently obscured from the point of view of the firer, then yes, of course it would.

Coincidentally it is hard to get LOS obscurement on a skimmer from an ADL, the skimmer stand supplied by GW is too tall. Tau fish may be low enough but the D Eldar have nothing short enough to gain obscurement.

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yup, it's all down to LOS. If the skimmer is sufficiently obscured from the point of view of the firer, then yes, of course it would.

Coincidentally it is hard to get LOS obscurement on a skimmer from an ADL, the skimmer stand supplied by GW is too tall. Tau fish may be low enough but the D Eldar have nothing short enough to gain obscurement.

Get/Make shorter stands. There is no rule about using the provided stands, I have some speeders on short stands because it was getting hard to hide them. use a shorter peg on the same size base.

 hcordes wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yup, it's all down to LOS. If the skimmer is sufficiently obscured from the point of view of the firer, then yes, of course it would.

Coincidentally it is hard to get LOS obscurement on a skimmer from an ADL, the skimmer stand supplied by GW is too tall. Tau fish may be low enough but the D Eldar have nothing short enough to gain obscurement.

Get/Make shorter stands. There is no rule about using the provided stands, I have some speeders on short stands because it was getting hard to hide them. use a shorter peg on the same size base.

Because that's not modelling for advantage at all...

 hcordes wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yup, it's all down to LOS. If the skimmer is sufficiently obscured from the point of view of the firer, then yes, of course it would.

Coincidentally it is hard to get LOS obscurement on a skimmer from an ADL, the skimmer stand supplied by GW is too tall. Tau fish may be low enough but the D Eldar have nothing short enough to gain obscurement.

Get/Make shorter stands. There is no rule about using the provided stands, I have some speeders on short stands because it was getting hard to hide them. use a shorter peg on the same size base.

You mean like on page 3?

MODELS AND BASE SIZES
The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player may have models in
his collection on unusually modeled bases. Some models aren't
supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness,
relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to
mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using
models of a similar type as guidance.

While it's not 100% spelled out that you must use the base supplied, it IS spelled out that you must use one of the appropriate size for the model type. Else you are required to use the base supplied.

 hcordes wrote:
There is no rule about using the provided stands

Rulebook Page 3 wrote:The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with.

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yup, it's all down to LOS. If the skimmer is sufficiently obscured from the point of view of the firer, then yes, of course it would.

Coincidentally it is hard to get LOS obscurement on a skimmer from an ADL, the skimmer stand supplied by GW is too tall. Tau fish may be low enough but the D Eldar have nothing short enough to gain obscurement.

You're making the assumption that the table is flat and has no hills, etc.

I have a mate who thinks it is ok to take his skimmer off the stand completely and place the model on the ground... "you rhino doesn't have a base why should my grav tank have to" is his argument

Point him to the Skimmer rules, which tell us that Skimmers ARE on bases and only give permission to remove it if the Skimmer is Immobilized or Destroyed.

Been there, he is quite stubborn. He also claims "nowhere in the rule book does it say you cannot model for advantage" so naturally he has 6' high agis defense lines and countless other stupid things. Technically he is right... it doesn't mention Modeling for advantage... but its common sense

Point out that it also doesn't say that you don't automatically win the moment he removes the base from his skimmer, claim the victory and pack up your stuff...

 insaniak wrote:
Point out that it also doesn't say that you don't automatically win the moment he removes the base from his skimmer, claim the victory and pack up your stuff...

+1... lol

Technically he's not right. Don't play with jerks and you won't have these problems.

 Juggalo17 wrote:
6' high agis defense lines

If his strategy is, "Don't move, don't shoot, and don't assault," then this would be a very handy ADL. But if he ever wants LoS....

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
Because that's not modelling for advantage at all...

I'm going to use this quote Marshall, but not to pick on you.

So if I use the shorter peg I'm modelling for advantage, but you making me use the taller peg isn't? (Sorry OT maybe I'll start a thread elsewhere)

Cheers

Andrew

I have no issue with using either (any?) of the pegs provided by GW. Marshall R was responding to a comment claiming that you don't have to use those, and are free to make shorter ones. Which is clearly modeling for advantage.

I've taken that thought to General Discussion Mannahnin. I've always used my Devilfish and HHeads without stands because of the landing gear rules. (that and breaking the tips off flight stands)

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
I've taken that thought to General Discussion Mannahnin. I've always used my Devilfish and HHeads without stands because of the landing gear rules. (that and breaking the tips off flight stands)

The landing gear rules didn't allow you to remove the base...

When they first came out they did.

Which is now 2 codexes ago?

So you dont get to use them anymore. The current codex does not give you any permission to do so, so you cannot do so.

 AndrewC wrote:

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
Because that's not modelling for advantage at all...

I'm going to use this quote Marshall, but not to pick on you.

So if I use the shorter peg I'm modelling for advantage, but you making me use the taller peg isn't? (Sorry OT maybe I'll start a thread elsewhere)

Cheers

Andrew

Not a problem. And the shorter one that is provided is totolly fine. I made that comment about using totolly different pegs that were made to be as short as possible.

 Kevin949 wrote:


You mean like on page 3?

MODELS AND BASE SIZES
The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player may have models in
his collection on unusually modeled bases. Some models aren't
supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness,
relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to
mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using
models of a similar type as guidance.

While it's not 100% spelled out that you must use the base supplied, it IS spelled out that you must use one of the appropriate size for the model type. Else you are required to use the base supplied.

I'd just like to point out that some kits come with a "large" stand and a "small" stand.

In that case, you can choose.

Iranna.

 AndrewC wrote:
When they first came out they did.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone point to a page in the 4th edition rulebook that allowed you to remove the base? I know in 5th (and 6th edition) you only could remove the base if Immobilised or Wrecked.

Landing gear never let you remove the base. Some players just assumed that because skimmers have flight bases, something that makes them not a skimmer temporarily should mean the bar is removed.

Removing the base was a common convention, but never a rule.

 Juggalo17 wrote:
Been there, he is quite stubborn. He also claims "nowhere in the rule book does it say you cannot model for advantage" so naturally he has 6' high agis defense lines and countless other stupid things. Technically he is right... it doesn't mention Modeling for advantage... but its common sense

This sounds like an atypical dark eldar player j/k

You could always do some turn about and make him check LoS from each gun barrel a 6 inch tall ADL or no base skimmer can't have LoS to much.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Which is now 2 codexes ago?

So you dont get to use them anymore. The current codex does not give you any permission to do so, so you cannot do so.

Yeah, I know. Old dog, new tricks and all that.

Cheers

Andrew

 Iranna wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:


You mean like on page 3?

MODELS AND BASE SIZES
The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base
they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player may have models in
his collection on unusually modeled bases. Some models aren't
supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness,
relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to
mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using
models of a similar type as guidance.

While it's not 100% spelled out that you must use the base supplied, it IS spelled out that you must use one of the appropriate size for the model type. Else you are required to use the base supplied.

I'd just like to point out that some kits come with a "large" stand and a "small" stand.

In that case, you can choose.

Iranna.

Ya, the new C'tan for necrons come with both 40 and 60mm bases.