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My friend argued that his IC can join his Riptide, and confer that majority toughness gives his IC a toughness 6. Is this correct?

I think Riptides can be joined, the only restriction would be if it is a unit that always consists of one model, such as Mephiston.

rnlmeat0666 wrote:
My friend argued that his IC can join his Riptide, and confer that majority toughness gives his IC a toughness 6. Is this correct?

The restrictions on ICs is that they cannot join units that ALWAYS consist of a single model, or vehicles

Is the riptide ALWAYS a single model? No
Is the riptide a vehicle? No

The IC can join.

Now majority toughness only works when rolling to-wound, not for ID or anthing else like that. So yes, when rolling to wound against a krak missile the crisis HQ plus a riptide is T6, however if you fail a save on the Suit you are getting pasted by S8 v T4

Thanks for the clarification, he was trying to claim I couldn't ID his Farseer from my str 6 Incinerator

Eldercaveman wrote:
I think Riptides can be joined, the only restriction would be if it is a unit that always consists of one model, such as Mephiston.

Bad example as Mephiston is not an IC.

Yes, a Riptide is not a unit that always consists of a single model. It has the ability to add drones.

I think the point is not Mephiston joining but being joined. He cannot join since he is not an IC (as you stated). He also cannot be joined by an IC, since he is always a single model. A Riptide can be joined since it has the option to include Drones. [Ghosted on the last part. D'oh!]

Homer

I posted a similar thread, yeah, it is legal, however much i disagree but ill chalk it up to cheese/bad form lol. Riptide with Shadowsun, was the combo i saw doing the most damage.
the trick against this would more than likely be some kind of flyer spam, or drop pod/deepstrike get in their face kind of army.

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
I think Riptides can be joined, the only restriction would be if it is a unit that always consists of one model, such as Mephiston.

Bad example as Mephiston is not an IC.

I would say it was a perfect example, of a single model unit that cannot ever be joined be an independent character.

Bad example of reading.

Nos, I haven't found any rules that change the unit size for the Riptide.

Under the Riptide entry its lists it as One Riptide, not 1-3 like Carnifex's (for example).

Does the addition of the drones since they are model preclude the 1 Riptide Unit?

I would apprecate a clairification so I can follow.

Yes, thats exactly what they do.

Drones are models. Therefor, since the Riptide can take them it cannot be a unit that only ever consists of one model. Nothing requires the models in question to be the same.

Grey, But the Riptide Unit is still only ever 1 Riptide a Single Model it never loses this distinction at least not that I've found.

It doesn't have to be more than one riptide, just more than one model. So is a riptide with two drones a unit consisting of more than 1 model? If it is then an IC can attach.

The Drones added dont change the Unit Entry which designates how many models are part of the unit.

Are there any other examples in any other codex or faq in which we can draw a parellel?

Edit
I'm not being purposfully obtuse. I always read the can't join units that consist of one model as one model in the unit entry.

Yonush wrote:
The Drones added dont change the Unit Entry which designates how many models are part of the unit.

Are there any other examples in any other codex or faq in which we can draw a parellel?

Edit
I'm not being purposfully obtuse. I always read the can't join units that consist of one model as one model in the unit entry.

Hive tyrants with tyrant guard can have a prime attached.

Further, the rule doesn't say models that are 1+ in a codex. It goes out of its way to say units that only ever consist of a single model. Put it this way, if i point to your riptide unit with 2 drones and ask how many models are in that unit, do you say 1 or 3?

The definition of a "unit" means that, as soon as you add a drone, the "unit" consists now of 2 models.

That is all the permission you need.

Yonush wrote:
The Drones added dont change the Unit Entry which designates how many models are part of the unit.

Are there any other examples in any other codex or faq in which we can draw a parellel?

Edit
I'm not being purposfully obtuse. I always read the can't join units that consist of one model as one model in the unit entry.

Chaos Space Marines. page 95 of their codex.
Unit Composition:
4 Chaos Space Marines
1 Aspiring Champion


May add up to fifteen Chaos Space Marines .... X pts/model

The Unit Comp. is the starting unit comp. That does not mean it's the only configuration possible.

Melchiour wrote:

Hive tyrants with tyrant guard can have a prime attached.

This is a false representation. A prime can't join a Tyrant unless there the tyrant joins the guard because of the Guard rule that allows the Tyrant to join as an IC. A prime can't join a tyrant on his own because he never loses the Unit Entry of One Tyrant designation.

Further, the rule doesn't say models that are 1+ in a codex. It goes out of its way to say units that only ever consist of a single model. Put it this way, if i point to your riptide unit with 2 drones and ask how many models are in that unit, do you say 1 or 3?

The additional drones in the unit have special rules to be there, they are part of the unit but a Riptide is still a Unit of One in the Entry.

The physical addition of models with special rules to a Unit of 1 model doesn't remove this restriction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Chaos Space Marines. page 95 of their codex.
Unit Composition:
4 Chaos Space Marines
1 Aspiring Champion


May add up to fifteen Chaos Space Marines .... X pts/model

The Unit Comp. is the starting unit comp. That does not mean it's the only configuration possible.

So to clairify, because there may be special rules that allow more than one model in a Unit, where the Unit has a "Unit of One X" that allows IC to override the Can't join a Unit of one?

The forum has a search function you guys, this subject pops up daily it seems.

Yonush wrote:
So to clairify, because there may be special rules that allow more than one model in a Unit, where the Unit has a "Unit of One X" that allows IC to override the Can't join a Unit of one?

There's no "Unit of One X" - that's you misreading.
It starts as a unit of one. You can buy more models for it. It's no longer a unit of one.
ICs can join a unit that isn't always a unit of one.

Then why list Carnifex as 1-3 instead of 1 and can purchase 2 more?

To clairify my position, I believe that the "can't join a unit that conists of only 1" restriction references the Unit Entry, not the physical models on the table.

Yonush wrote:
Then why list Carnifex as 1-3 instead of 1 and can purchase 2 more?

Different Codexes. Look up firewarriors - how are they worded?

Dunno, my Tau Codex is at home and I'm at work. I'll have to take your word for the exact quote.

As an example, Tau crisis suits are listed as "Unit composition 1 crisis suit" then under options you can buy more, having up to 3 total.

 Melchiour wrote:
As an example, Tau crisis suits are listed as "Unit composition 1 crisis suit" then under options you can buy more, having up to 3 total.

Hrm... That does throw a wrench into my line of thinking... I don't think anyone could posit that Crisis Suits can't have an IC join them because the Unit Entry says 1 Suit. And if you allow the may buy more phrasing, then that also affects drones...

If the drones and Riptide form a unit, wouldn't that bring the majority toughness down to the toughness of the drones?

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
If the drones and Riptide form a unit, wouldn't that bring the majority toughness down to the toughness of the drones?

Drones for riptide are T6.

 Melchiour wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
If the drones and Riptide form a unit, wouldn't that bring the majority toughness down to the toughness of the drones?

Drones for riptide are T6.

If we are talking about drones, there will be more then one of them, so two t3 (assuming drones are t3) and one t6 means the squad is wounded as they all are t3.

...The Riptide drones are T6 on their unit entry (because thankfully someone at GW realised what would happen if the drones were T4,yet didn't realise what would happen if the Riptide wasn't Fearless)....

To be fair, if your Riptide gets caught in melee you deserve to lose it.