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I personally think necrons should be nerfed. With I will be back, mind shackle, gauss that glance on 6. And wraithsss?? Damn it.

Ideas on how to handle them. For both shooting and cc.

I play chaos space marine btw. Any thoughts guys?

Noise marines with Sonic Blasters make short work of them. Mass wounds and he has to roll 2s and 1s... Thats really the only option you have sadly =/

A unit of 20 Khorne Berzerkers.

Or a unit of 20 Enhanced Warriors (don't join Fabius Bile with them though).

How about 5 predators with tri lascannon to blast them into kingdomcome?

 XT-1984 wrote:
A unit of 20 Khorne Berzerkers.

Or a unit of 20 Enhanced Warriors (don't join Fabius Bile with them though).

You really don't need 20. About 9 Zerkers can take out 6 Wraiths provided they get the charge.

They got 3 plus invul?

yes they have a 3plus armour save AND 3 plus invul, makes a difference for things like Null zone.

I have found my daemon princes go through wraiths like butter, staff of change makes them always str 8 so hitting on 3's wounding on 2's and they are hitting on 5's wounding on 3's, each failed save is a wraith dead

i agree with noise mareeehns
master blasters rock their world

He attached a destroyer lord with his wraiths. which is really a pain. they are re-rolling 1s and rending on 6s

Apart from S6 pistols, which are a bit pointless on Wraiths, they have no ranges capacit at all. just shoot them with mass small-arms. The 3++ is wasted if you're pouring 20-30 las or Bolter rounds into them at a time.

Exactly, you deal with them in the same way you deal with a Termie Assault squad: You keep forcing saves.
Eventually he has to roll a 1 or 2 and they lose wounds.

Actually since they have a 3+/3++ instead of a 2+, and T4, a squad of six Wraiths is no more or less durable than 12 marines in the context of taking small arms fire. Mass bolter/heavy bolter/whatever fire will drop them just as easily as getting rid of marines.

Once you drop a few wraiths, (and with good positioning you can snipe the Whip Coil ones), then you charge in and try to either give the DLord a worthless champ to feast on, or him him with a Dread or Maulerfiend or something that is immune to the Mind Shackle and attacks first.

Massed small arms fire are the most reliable way to kill off wraiths.

If they have a D-Lord with them then you can pretty much count onthat model having Weave (2+ save) and MSS. the Wraiths will also have Whip Coils so anything in base contact will hit at I1. plus they will, as previously stated, be re-rolling 1s to hit and wound.

If you charge the Wraiths then you can rangle it a little by just putting the models with hammers or fists in front - that way the would be hitting at I1 anyway and your I2+ models will still hit first.

A full Warith squad with D-Lord is expensive but normally pays for itelf. With Whip Coils they will quite happly tear a single Deamon prince to shreds. I have also managed to take out a sqaud of berzekrers + kharn with them - although havign kharn smack his own sqaud via MSS helped out too.

With Rending and a D-lord warscythe they even have a chance to take down nasties like CC Contemptor dreads as well.

I agree with noise marines. Between the volume of fire from sonic blasters and blastmasters to maybe instagib a couple, you can really thin the squad out. They are forced to charge as well, so a doom siren helps for overwatch, or if you are fortunate to get close and get to place the template. In combat, you can take those extra CCW's to get some more strikes in, and potential FNP will keep you around. Being fearless, both squads will fight till the end, so you can tie them up.

If the Dlord is with them, the squad is still T4, so mass small arms is the way to go. Dakka preds, regular marines, or anything else that shoots a lot also works.

Things i would prefer my Wraiths to avoid:

-Dakka pred
-Assault Cannons
-Dakka devastator squads
-Big bolter toting squads

Volume of fire is right. Or volume of attacks. If you can put out mass attacks with cheap models you should do fine vs. Wraiths.

Death Company can still annhilate Wraths in CC.

As many S8 weapons as you can field.

Wraiths hate S8; it gives them nightmares. If he has a D.Lord with a 2+ save in front leading them, hit them with AP2 first. As the lord is in front, he will have to take the AP2 hits, and Destroyer Lords can never take an invul save. All you need is 3 wounds from the AP2 to kill him, and you can easily do that with plasma / lascannon. After that you can just spam S8.

Or just shoot them alot; that always works.

Volume of shots. It's been said before but it's really the best way to take em down.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As many S8 weapons as you can field.

Wraiths hate S8; it gives them nightmares. If he has a D.Lord with a 2+ save in front leading them, hit them with AP2 first. As the lord is in front, he will have to take the AP2 hits, and Destroyer Lords can never take an invul save. All you need is 3 wounds from the AP2 to kill him, and you can easily do that with plasma / lascannon. After that you can just spam S8.

Or just shoot them alot; that always works.

I am not a maths person. So what you guys are suggesting is. they are both 3+ anyway. So not worht pumping that s9 ap2 lascannon shot at them. But rather just a lot of regular bolters rounds?
I guess 35 cultist rapid firing will do the job?

kissmymom wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As many S8 weapons as you can field.

Wraiths hate S8; it gives them nightmares. If he has a D.Lord with a 2+ save in front leading them, hit them with AP2 first. As the lord is in front, he will have to take the AP2 hits, and Destroyer Lords can never take an invul save. All you need is 3 wounds from the AP2 to kill him, and you can easily do that with plasma / lascannon. After that you can just spam S8.

Or just shoot them alot; that always works.

I am not a maths person. So what you guys are suggesting is. they are both 3+ anyway. So not worht pumping that s9 ap2 lascannon shot at them. But rather just a lot of regular bolters rounds?
I guess 35 cultist rapid firing will do the job?

35 Cultists rapid firing will kill 2 Wraiths (does 3.89 wounds).

DLord is going to LOS! AP2 shots, obviously. I'm not sure why that was argued as a solution. Rate of Fire is the solution, or any STR8, ap irrelevant.

anonymou5 wrote:

kissmymom wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As many S8 weapons as you can field.

Wraiths hate S8; it gives them nightmares. If he has a D.Lord with a 2+ save in front leading them, hit them with AP2 first. As the lord is in front, he will have to take the AP2 hits, and Destroyer Lords can never take an invul save. All you need is 3 wounds from the AP2 to kill him, and you can easily do that with plasma / lascannon. After that you can just spam S8.

Or just shoot them alot; that always works.

I am not a maths person. So what you guys are suggesting is. they are both 3+ anyway. So not worht pumping that s9 ap2 lascannon shot at them. But rather just a lot of regular bolters rounds?
I guess 35 cultist rapid firing will do the job?

35 Cultists rapid firing will kill 2 Wraiths (does 3.89 wounds).

DLord is going to LOS! AP2 shots, obviously. I'm not sure why that was argued as a solution. Rate of Fire is the solution, or any STR8, ap irrelevant.

Right. but the str 9 lascannon shots is gonna instant death them though. if they happen to fail 1. Alright I sort of have an idea now. I'll just feed the cultist to the wraiths then.

all this solutions is when you face 6 wraith not 18 which is pain to get rid of.
on the other hand you must also take into account that those annihilation barges and flyers will take out the shooting in turns1 & 2...

 Valek wrote:
all this solutions is when you face 6 wraith not 18 which is pain to get rid of.
on the other hand you must also take into account that those annihilation barges and flyers will take out the shooting in turns1 & 2...

Only facing 6 at the moment(THEY ARE ALREADY A PAIN IN THE ASS). Gonna try the predator and cultist settings.

My wraiths are target priority 1 , they seem to die pretty easily with volume of fire though and I always loose allot on the way across the board.

I however don't play 3 x units of 6 wraiths, if you are facing that all the time break the little whip coils off your opponents models when he isn't looking lol...

I don't know how you can easily combat 3 x 6 wraiths unless you have a better CC option in your army.

When i play my Wraiths i tedn to try and keep them out of LOS or at least in cover aroudnt he middle of the table - this is because all my regular opponents know to target them with volume of fire.

The basically lurk until a target presents itself and then pounce.

I did try barrelling them across the table when i first got them but i found that in the open you tend to lose at least a couple to mass fire on the way in - and even losing 2 can make a massive dent in their cc potential.

kissmymom wrote:
I am not a maths person. So what you guys are suggesting is. they are both 3+ anyway. So not worht pumping that s9 ap2 lascannon shot at them. But rather just a lot of regular bolters rounds?
I guess 35 cultist rapid firing will do the job?

That might depend on the army.

Just think of it this way, I will use my BA-marines as an example.

You need 3 STR9 wounds to kill a Wraith => That are 3.6 hits and thus 5.4 shots.
You need 6 STR4 wounds to kill a Wraith => That are 12 hits and 18 shots.

What is the price of 5.4 Lascannon-shots and what is the price of 18 Bolt Gun-shots?

kissmymom wrote:
How about 5 predators with tri lascannon to blast them into kingdomcome?

How would you run 5?

Anywho, as a Necron player, and big proponent of wraiths, I hate to see massed small arms fire. Simply force the unit to take as many saves as possible. Also, Praxiss is absolutely correct: charge them first. 1) You dictate what models are in base contact--if there are whip coils 2) You take away not only the additional attack from charging, but also possible HoW attacks

I've used plague marines on them to great effect. Wraiths are vulnerable to lots of low strength wounds, which plague marines can bring plenty of with poisoned weapons.

 Praxiss wrote:
When i play my Wraiths i tedn to try and keep them out of LOS or at least in cover aroudnt he middle of the table - this is because all my regular opponents know to target them with volume of fire.

The basically lurk until a target presents itself and then pounce.

I did try barrelling them across the table when i first got them but i found that in the open you tend to lose at least a couple to mass fire on the way in - and even losing 2 can make a massive dent in their cc potential.

Same way I tend to use them. Better to not be overly aggressive and just use them as board control.