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Is it a good idea if I buy a 10 man pathfinder team and split them up into two 5 man squads, so one squad can put down some markerlights and the other can do some damage?

I have 16 Pathfinders, 6 I had previously, and the 10 from the new box. If I have the FA slot for them, I always try and take them in 2 squads. Right now I typically run a squad of 8 vanilla Pathfinders and then a squad of 8 Pathfinders with 3 of them having rail rifles. But, that is my preference in having the choice to maybe spread my marker lights between 2 units a turn rather then just 1.

I run 16 pathfinders too. In 2k i run 2x8 squads with a tetra in the 3rd FA slot. in 1850 and less i run 2x5 squads and a 6 man squad with 1x rail rifle

I've used pathfinders in a few games, but really only for the recon drone and rushing them in a devilfish.

While I love the railrifle, both model and stats, I have problems paying 11 points for a single model and another 15 points for the gun. It's pretty expensive for a worse that guardsman statline.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

While I love the railrifle, both model and stats, I have problems paying 11 points for a single model and another 15 points for the gun. It's pretty expensive for a worse that guardsman statline.

I understand that and won't disagree with it. At the moment it is the best way for me to get some low AP shots on the table against the armies I keep finding myself playing against. I hope to maybe start phasing them out of play once I pick up some more Crisis Suits that I can arm with Fusion and Plasma.

Deadly Hinch wrote:
Is it a good idea if I buy a 10 man pathfinder team and split them up into two 5 man squads, so one squad can put down some markerlights and the other can do some damage?

Yes. But It is even better to have 2 five man squads that are both marker lighting for other units

thanks guys

I have played four games with Pathfinders, two 5 man squads one with rail rifles and the other with the ion rifle. Three of the games I had them come in via outflank and they did a really good job for me. Now I have to say that all three times they outflanked on the same table side and twice on turn two. The Ions had enemy vehicles in rapid fire and either on side or rear armor. The Rails had enemy heavy infantry or heavy support squads in rapid fire and did well also. I tried the 2x5 setup with them starting on the table but they get killed off even when in terrain too easily. The thing is that running 5 man squads they do not last long at all, maybe 2 turns if you are lucky but I find it is a nice setup for the XV8's, Commaner or even the XV15's coming on\advancing to link up with them. Just the fact that I can outflank that kind or firepower makes my opponents be very carefull with their initial deployment and also their first few moves or I can really make them pay with the rapis fire and a few markerlights.

Try out new things with the little guys and have fun with them, I did!

Personally like squads of 8 to support my crisis suits and squads of 6 to support fire warriors and riptides. 8 pathfinders will average 4 markerlight hits which gives ignore cover and boost bs to 5. If you get unlucky you may only get 3 lights and you can ignore cover and boost to bs4. Typically you want to remove cover first. 6 pathfinders average 3 markerlights which an ion cannon riptide will use to ignore cover with 2 markerlights and increase bs with any extras, but you take 6 pathe finders to insure 2 marker lights hit. For fire warriors you rarely need to remove cover so just use all the tokens to boost bs to 5.

I think it's important to note that your pathfinders will almost always take casualties, being the markerlight spamming dudes that they are. If you start with 18 markerlights on the table, you're going to end with 6. That first turn, your enemy, if they're smart, is going to blast you with the entirety of their small-arms fire and anything uncommited to murdering vehicles/suits. I like to take advantage of this by taking lots of pathfinders, putting one squad in a vulnerable-looking piece of terrain, then letting them go to ground. They soak up tons of firepower aimed at them, and oftentimes at the end of turn 1 I've lost all of 5 or 6 pathfinders and maybe a suit. The issue is really that your opponent can't let those forward pathfinders live, but you really didn't lose much in terms of what your army really brings to the table.

Pathfinders hurt versus noise marines and sternguard, which are actually fairly common. Against those armies, you need to be very aggressive to make use of your markerlights as soon as possible before they're all gone, and possibly have backups in skyrays/drones.

What i know of Pathfinders are that you can use them for a lot more in this codex than previously, with the special drones, the rifles and their markerlight and the ability to pick EMP allow them to be played differently.

But in most cases oppoments will target them due to their markerlights, so if you field them you should expect them to die first.

By the by; you can put a rifle on your Shas`ui, meaning you can get the character precise shots with the str6 ap1 Rail rifle etc.

can the shas'ui have a rail rifle?

Deadly Hinch wrote:
can the shas'ui have a rail rifle?

From the codex: "Up to three models may exchange their carbine and markerlight for one of the following:"
So i presome the Shas`ui is one of the "Any models" as long as he have a carbine and a markerlight.

I agree with uberjoras whole heartedly.

Pathfinders are amazing markerlight delivery systems for so cheap and should be used for just that. Matching them up with a squad of high yield missle broadsides and they are amazing

I'll chime in on the chorus here: pathfinders are best when used for markerlights and markerlights alone.

Not necessarily true - Pathfinders with EMP are a good way to squeeze in some extra AT in an unexpected place, and the special drones/weapons are very cool to have. That said, without target locks with the special weapons, they end up being very awkward in terms of practicality, and you lose out on markerlights for scarier things, like dual-plasma crisis suits. They're also quite expensive, which again takes away from the rest of the army.

Using pathfinders with the special deployment drones does shake things up, but again, unless your army revolves around a turn 2 alpha strike, it's often not that useful, and can sometimes lead to just having dead pathfinders.

I prefer to use them as tried-and-true markerlight holders. But that's not to say they don't have other uses in a more creative general's hands.

Mine are like this:

7 Pathfinders (3 x Rail Rifles +all 3 Drones, EMP)
Devilfish (disruption Pod)

I outflank them. They do hideously awesome damage from the flanks and are nigh impossible to charge. They shoot tank guardians dead, then kill the tanks or whatever I need them for. They pack a serious punch, especially with a little markerlight help, though i have not ACTYALLY fired a single Pathfinder Markerlight in 11 games.

I am 10W-0L-1T.

I unfortunately can vouch for Jancoran's damn pathfinders... They are brutal with the outflanking especially when combined with Kroot.

Seems like a lot of points for what you get. Almost 300 points for three shots that aren't really good for anti-tank and all on T3, Bs3, 5+ bodies. Just seems more like a points sink than anything else.

And yet... Exceedingly feared.

Do you use a Positional Relay for awesome Outflank shinnanigans?

How could someone fear that? If my opponent was brining that, I'd thank them for bringing one of the most expensive and squishiest unit his army could muster. Really, the counter to that is shooting at it... With anything. In return it has nothing really to offer except for some Ap1 plasma rifles and pulse carbines. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

I could buy 5 piranhas that would do a much better job of rushing forward and killing backfield dudes, or nipping off some tanks, and have points left over. Or 30 fire warriors. People are really terrified of rapid firing FW. There comes a point where a t3 5+ dude who costs 28 points with a rail rifle, a very mild upgrade over pulse carbine when factoring in cover saves, just doesn't cut it compared to maybe a dual-flamer suit which cost 4 points more.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
How could someone fear that? If my opponent was brining that, I'd thank them for bringing one of the most expensive and squishiest unit his army could muster. Really, the counter to that is shooting at it... With anything. In return it has nothing really to offer except for some Ap1 plasma rifles and pulse carbines. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

Well, they are guaranteed the alpha strike. That helps. They also come in from the side of the board which makes it exceedingly difficult to get cover against them. Finally, I would imagine he probably uses the Fish to block LOS to them, making them much more resilient (0+ Cover Saves are pretty good for that).

Haven't actually seen it in action, but I can certainly see factors that would make it effective.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
How could someone fear that? If my opponent was brining that, I'd thank them for bringing one of the most expensive and squishiest unit his army could muster. Really, the counter to that is shooting at it... With anything. In return it has nothing really to offer except for some Ap1 plasma rifles and pulse carbines. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

Rail Rifle Str6 Ap1 Rapid fire 30"
So you get possibly 6 AP1 shots into your backside and it can hurt most armored targets from the back.

I will guess he already have 1 or 2 pathfider teams already on the table with a outflanking "Special weapon team" and the moment he comes into the table he will try to position himself in a way that he can alpha down whatever target that is a priority and then use the Devilfish to hide the rest of the unit against small arms fire.

As for the 3 Drones, his 18" carbine is now 24", You subtract d3 from your charge, and he have a recon drone with a Brust cannon and the added benefit of having rest of his reserves come out on the same edge or deepstrike within 6"

If not the markerlights, or the AP1 shots, you will fear them for opening a garanteed reserve backdoor.

Added note: If he is 6" within your table edge, he can deploy on your whole edge aswell.
And again added: For this set-up ( without EMP ) + drones, 300 points with the devilfish.

Best force I've fought is three groups of 7 PF..
Average of 3-4 hits means either extra BS for next pathfinders that can average 5-6...
Or if 4 hits.. Strip cover and BS 5 for suits..
It's the best way to keep them as cheap as possible but still get the most of them statistically!!

And believe me after that I have an unhealthy fear of them, very next game I committed my whole army to kill the pathfinders first.. Facing BS3 suits from then on seemed worth it

Dracoknight wrote:


Rail Rifle Str6 Ap1 Rapid fire 30"
So you get possibly 6 AP1 shots into your backside and it can hurt most armored targets from the back.

That's assuming back armor or a light vehicle side armor and even then it's not that effective with it's only buff against vehicles being a +2 to the chart (which is good) but even against AV10 you're going to need a 5+ to pen, anything more and it may as well be useless. Really I think it's about as effective as a standard plasma gun for the task, but neither seem to be really suited for it. Either way, I wouldn't spend 275 points on a unit to take down light vehicles.

I also don't think the Devilfish is really a good way to bring the Pathfinders on the field if you're outflanking them. Spending 95 points to give up shooting and have a unit to block LOS to the pathfinders while still being vulnerable since you're in the opponent's backfield just doesn't seem worth the extra points. For that matter if you were planning on deepstriking units along with the pathfinders then you probably won't need the grav drone either. That would cut it down from 275 points to 165 while still offering the same firepower output and being able to call in reserves. Much more cost efficient and you could afford an entire pathfinder squad for that cut.

As for the 3 Drones, his 18" carbine is now 24", You subtract d3 from your charge, and he have a recon drone with a Brust cannon and the added benefit of having rest of his reserves come out on the same edge or deepstrike within 6"

Well the recon drone is still limited to an 18" gun, the -d3" to charge is circumstantial, and the only 4 pulse carbines are at 24" for 15 additional points. Again, it's not points effective and really just seems like someone just took every upgrade they could. Why not throw the bonding ritual on just to really push it over the top.

If not the markerlights, or the AP1 shots, you will fear them for opening a garanteed reserve backdoor.

I don't really fear BS3 markerlights now, especially since they can't move and shoot effectively. I don't fear a S6 Ap1 weapon since it might as well be a plasma gun. The reserve backdoor is a nice bonus, but it's still 275 points on that one unit and it's not really hard to counter once you've seen it once or even just know what to expect.

Added note: If he is 6" within your table edge, he can deploy on your whole edge aswell.

I know that. I've ran that tactic before. But I didn't spend 275 points to do it. I spent 152 for the same backfield shenanigans and got away with it because the unit was a small threat. Adding every bell and whistle to the unit just makes them a large target and even when I ran it, I knew it was an incredible gamble. Since then I've dropped it because I don't play reserve heavy except for Kroot and a 5 point kroot hound is all the upgrade they really need for outflanking fun.

Seriously, would an IG player pay 300 points for three plasma gun guardsmen (BS3, not vets) inside of a chimera with no firepoints? The special weapons just really aren't special and they're on a pricey unit for that small added boost.

Using pathfinders for anything but markerlights is wasteful in the extreme!!!!!

 Spazamataz wrote:
Using pathfinders for anything but markerlights is wasteful in the extreme!!!!!

Personally i would call it being a spoiled Tau, but in a game of cover, then yes the markerlights are kind of wasted if used on weaponry instead, I am not sold as to markerlights being a "must have" but more as a benefit. ( being a ex-nid player i am happy with just being able to shoot during the first 2 turns, instead of shuffling large slow MCs across the field )

The beauty of PF is, assuming you don't over-commit in points, they are very versitile stock, more so with a small investment of EMP grenades.

Personally, even though First Blood is a pain, a smaller squad (4-6) isn't going to survive any better than a larger squad; due to the notion of minimum thresholds an enemy will bring to bear. This keeps the invest of EMP grenades down as even 4 can still be terrifying to a vehicle (Ka-Boom bab.. For the Greater Good.. etc ).

Finally, I have had a little experience with those special weapons. I think people under-estimate the cheaper and more versatile Ion Rifle. Str8 blasts are just golden.