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I have been seeing a lot of advice that basically says: “Don’t Take Blood Claws!”
Personally I think is should be: “Don’t Take Blood Claws Unless You Know What You Are Doing With Them!”
I will open up by stating that I have never Claimed that they are a “Competitive Unit”! I think they are a Fun and Fluffy unit to play. Once you relies their Strengths and Weaknesses you could really like to have fun with them and give your opponents fits.

What you get with the Blood Claws-5-15 Blood Claws
-0-1 Lukas the Trickster [Unique]

1st lets look a Lukas

War Gear
-Power Armor: 3+ Save
>Wolf Tooth Necklace: 3+ hit in Close Combat
>Wolf Tail Talisman: 5+ Psychic Save.
>Plasma Pistol: Not bad, this can give you 2 in the Pack
>Wolf Claw: Cool, but wait only 1. He looses the extra attack for a second weapon.
>Pelt of the Doppegangrel: Makes Successful to hit Rolls Aimed at him must be Re-Rolled. This could make him an exhalent Dueler.

Special Rules
>ATSKNF: Always good
>Acute Senses: Cool Night Vision
>Counter Attack: “Bring it On!”
>Rebellious: Max Leadership 8 for the Pack and that it. OK?
>The Last Laugh: “Kill Me at your own risk”
>Nothing Else, No Berserk Charge, no Headstrong, he does not even count as an IC for Head Strong.

I am still trying to wrap my head around him. As keep looking he is only a upgrade for Blood Claws, but I can find nothing that says anything that lets him challenge or accept challenges except for one line in the FAQ asking about the Pelt of the Doppegangrel. I have not been able to bring myself to use him. I think he would have been better as a HQ choice so he could also be use with Blood Claws, Skyclaws and Swiftclaws like in his fluff. If anybody could prove me wrong about him tell me why.

The Blood Claws
War Gear
>Standard Issue: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag and Krak Grenades and Power Armor.
>One Blood Claw may replace his Bolt Pistol with 1 of the following: Flamer, Melta-Gun, Plasma-Gun, If the Pack is 15 Blood Claws strong add a second for FREE!
>One Blood Claw can replace his Bolt Pistol for a Plasma Pistol.
>One Blood Claw may replace his Close Combat Weapon with a Power Weapon or Power Fist.
>Transports: Rhino, Razorback, or Drop Pod.

Special Rules
>And They Shall Know No Fear: Auto Regroup.
>Acute Senses: Bring on the Night
>Counter-Attack: Bring it ON!
>Berserk Charge: You initiate the Assault get +2 Attacks instead of +1.
>Head Strong: If in the Shooting Phase you are in Assault Range you do not shoot any weapons, you Assault in the Following Phase unless the unit is lead by a Independent Character or a Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

What you can do with them. They have many different ways of using them.

The 15 Man Pack Options
>Quick and Dirty and cheep: 15 Blood Claws with 2 Flamers.
[b]>Quick and Dirty not so cheep: 15 Blood Claws, 1 Power Weapon/Power Fist, Plasma Pistol, and 2 Flamers.
>You want Anti-Tank: Take a Pair of Melta-Guns and a Power Fist.
>You wand Anti-MEQ: Take a Pair of Plasma-Guns and a Power Weapon.
>Another Reason to run a 15 Model Pack: With Overwatch this will give you the ability to absorb some of the wounds.
The 5-14 Man Pack: [Gibbs Slap] Why? I would not bother; all you end up with is 4-13 Meatshields for your 1 Flamer and 1 Power Weapon. This is one those units you want at full strength or not at all. In number of 10 or less just take Grey Hunters, they are just as cheep and better.

How do you use [abuse] them?
>I would not use them as you only Troop Choice most of the time, use a 1-2 Grey Hunter to 1 Blood Claw Pack. Though a 90 crazed Get of Fenris charging at the Tau army would be worth the expression. Just give them the Two Flamers, you will never regret it.
>Just use them at full 15 Blood Claws Packs. They are a Horde Unit; they will either scare you opponent to throw a lot of fire power at your 3+ save unit. If your opponent spends 3-4 turns hitting them with artillery it is not hitting you elites. If he ignores them soon he will have deal with a massive assault.
>Give as many of your Blood Claws Packs HQ’s or WGPLs as possible.
>You should build your list around them, if try to tack them on they will never feel right, at least for me it seems that way.
>Decide that there job is and use them for that job only. There jobs are Anti-Infantry, Anti-Armor/MC, Tar Pit and Objective Holders.
>Anti-Infantry: This is what they do best. Find units in there size category and go after them. As MEQs you can even do ok vs. Nids having that 3+ save.
>Anti-Armor/MC: With the change on how Grenades work you can do this job well now. A pair of Melta-Guns or Plasma-Guns will help, I would go with the Melta-Guns though as they have the same range profile as your Bolt Pistols and you can Assault with them. It would suggest also taking a Power Fist or Power Maul [I will get into this later].
>Tar-Pit: This is another perfect job for Blood Claws. You should be at 16 models with your Wolf Priest or WGPL. Just find a unit to Assault and you should be able to hold them up for turns, this even works vs. Terminators.
>Objective Holders: Blood Claws are Troops this means Scoring Units. Just get yourself of an objective and stay there. It should take a lot to push you off of it.

Who should you take with them?
>Logan: Good with any unit, if you want to put him together with a Powered Armored Squad, just make it a Wolf Guard Pack.
>Njal: His Saga of Majesty he will keep them in the fight, if you want to put him together with a Powered Armored Squad, just make it a Wolf Guard Pack.
>Ragnar: Can be good, you can use his Waaaag! [And Fluffy To], but when you use his Insane Bravado you have only a 1in 3 chance of getting extra attack.
>Ulric: Another waste, yes you make them fearless and a great Monster Hunters, but this will just get your Blood Claws Killed and there are better things to this than them. Though 58 Attacks vs. those Carnifex with Re-Rolls on Hits and Damage could be good. You also want him if you have Lukas to get past Rebellious.
>Björn: While he can’t actually join the unit he is a great distraction for your opponents and with his Saga of Majesty he will keep them in the fight.
>Wolf Lord: Can get great use out him just with up with Paired Wolf Claws.
>Rune Priest: This makes a great simple Body Guard and with Saga of Majesty the practically become fearless.
>Wolf Priest: This is the other Great Character to put with them. Oath of War makes them unparalleled in Close combat for MEQs vs. there chosen foe. This does make them Fearless. You also want him if you have Lukas to get past Rebellious.
>Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Almost as good as a Wolf Lord, but without the bad feeling of “Why is my Best guy with these young pups?” You can also take Saga of the Hunter and Outflank with them.
>Wolf Guard Pack Leader: I would suggest arming him however you want, but make sure he has Anti-Armor, Melta-Bombs at the least. If take a Combi-Weapon, take the same type as the squad or a Combi-Melta. A Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor is a bad choice most of the time. Sure that Terminator with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield looks cool and is hard to kill, but when you manage to break the Ork mob in Close Combat you will just stand there and watch them run away.
>Venerable Dreadnaughts: This may seem like an odd unit, but one with Saga of Majesty and Extra Armor is less than 200 points. The Saga of Majesty can cover 2 Packs easy and when put in the middle.
>Fenrisian Wolf Pack: Another seemingly odd choice for here, but they can make a good portable cover for your charge. Also they can tie up one unit while you take out a second.
>The Land Raiders: This may seem like an odd choice for a Troop Choice, but, a Wolf Priest and the Crusader is a great option. This might seem a lot of points, but your LRC will most likely end up in the center of a Target Friendly Environment and be able to split your fire. Rush forward directly at your target. Unload and fire the Hurricane Bolters, Storm Bolter and the Twin Linked Assault Cannons at the primary Target, and the Multi-Melta at the closest vehicle. Don’t forget about the Wolf Shields.

A few Notes on the Power Weapon/Power Fist debate an there use with Blood Claws especially with the Addition of Power Axes and Power Mauls being added. The use of these weapons should depend on your opponent.

>Power Axe [S5 AP2, Unwieldy]: This is a good choice for Monster Hunting and Tar-Pitting. You get your 2 attacks and can punch 2+ Armor. On the Assault this could give you 4 wounds that would force Terminators to make there invulnerable save. I could see this as a go to option for Blood Claws.
>Power Fist [S8 AP2, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy]: Just like the Power Axe but you can add Anti-Armor to the list of targets.
>Power Lance/Spear [S4/5 AP4/3]: I have gotten too really like this weapon. If you can pull off the Assault it gives you 4 S5 AP3 Attacks, this can really do a number MEQs [Ignore Armor would on a 3+] and Orks [Wound on a 3+]. With a Wolf Priest this give you a good chance kill off 3-4 Models Quickly.
>Power Maul [S6 AP4, Concussive]: This is a great choice for Monster Hunting and Anti-Vehicle Work. I have used it well vs. Dreadnaughts and Transports. I could see this as the other go to option for Blood Claws. It has proven to be great vs. MEQs even [Wounds on a 2+] and inflicts ID vs. T3.
>Power Sword [S4 AP3]: This is always a good choice.

The advice for using Blood Claws should be "if you don't care how good the unit is, use Blood Claws if you want to". Unfortunately, at the same points cost as Grey Hunters, there's no good reason to take Blood Claws, especially since Grey Hunters put out more damage due to BS4, Wolf Standards, Wulfen, Bolters, etc. Honestly, it's sad but true, I can never justify using Blood Claws (Swift/Skyclaws are another story though, because they don't compete with anything else).

Cram them in a Land Raider Crusader with a Wolf Priest or Ragnar and go nuts.

I love Blood Claws, for the fluff really. I run them now and then and they usually do OK. A ten man squad has taken out Vangaurd Vets, big units of Wyches, vanilla SM termies...etc. I tend to use them as a mop up unit, meaning they don't spearhead anything but rather after the enemy has been softened up a bit i send them in to deal with the survivors. I think they're still pretty decent. Not on par with GH, but they do Ok.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
The advice for using Blood Claws should be "if you don't care how good the unit is, use Blood Claws if you want to". Unfortunately, at the same points cost as Grey Hunters, there's no good reason to take Blood Claws, especially since Grey Hunters put out more damage due to BS4, Wolf Standards, Wulfen, Bolters, etc. Honestly, it's sad but true, I can never justify using Blood Claws (Swift/Skyclaws are another story though, because they don't compete with anything else).

I'm going to disagree just a little bit here. Your making it sound like taking blood claws will actually cause you to loose the game. One or two units of blood claws work just fine as long as you have a dedicated plan of how to use them. They can make a great line breaker by deviating any unit that they charge into. And ultimately they can actually hold objectives better than grey hunters due to larger unit size and fearless (because seriously, who doesn't run them with Wolf Priests). They potentially do more damage during over watch because of their larger numbers and the two flamer templates (because truthfully, who puts flamers on Grey Hunters).

Just because Bloodclaws arn't as obviously awesome as Grey Hunters doesn't make them bad. They still a better unit than other troop choices that some codexs are forced to take. They just don't have the plug and play utility of the Grey Hunter.

Dont bother with blood claw at the moment. Get Grey Hunters instead. For the same point you get more WS and more BS.

Blood Claw don't have boltguns. Lukas the trickster is overrated. No eternal warrior.

Check out my album for Spacewolves goodies.

I don't think Lukas is over-rated. No one thinks he's good lol. He also doesn't need eternal warrior since if anyone kills him, there's a 50% chance they're going down too. Which is probably the best use for him. See Abaddon with a body guard of Plague marines? Charge with a blood claw blob, challenge with Lukas. The first round Lukas will likely kill the PM Champion, but the next round you've got a 50% chance of killing Abaddon. Also all those attacks from the Blood Claws will put some damage out on the Plague Marines.

It's a bit odd that Lukas was never updated to be a character, and therefore gain all the benefits associated with that. However, as he is named and considered a "special character" I think RAI is pretty obvious here. Anyone who tries to argue that he's not a character is likely being a bit silly.

Blood claws really shine against hordes. They can munch through boys, gants and guardsmen pretty fast. However, so do bolters...

Because I feel like bursting some bubbles.


(typical) Grey Hunter pack -
GH x 10 with two plasma guns, standard, MOTW and power weapon in Drop Pod is 220 points.

(typical Blood Claws)
BC x 15 with two flamers being lead by wolf Priest. 325 points.

Yes the BC cost an extra 100 points, yes its not fair in the points department, however, this is how units are run, and this is how they perform.

GH drop down and shoot - 16 bolters shots and four plasma shots is 4 dead BCs.

Now the BCs shoot and charge (the GH pop the banner). 10 bolt guns is 1.08 dead grey hunters. Two flamers (assuming 7 hits between both) is 1.15 for a total of 2.23.

Grey hunters fire overwatch - 1.15 dead

So now we have assault with 7.77 grey hunters vs 9.85 BC (plus wolf priest). We will be nice and assume the GH get counter attack off, however, with only LD 8 that is by far not a sure thing.

Anyway, after all is said and done, the Grey Hunters kill off 2.83 Blood Claws in the insuing assault phase. While the BC do 3.73 kills back and the wolf priest does - 2.03 dead marines for a total kill count of 5.76.

The Grey Hunters loose combat by just under 3, and are taking an LD check at LD6 but because of ATSKNF and both being I4 the fight continues.

Final survivors of this combat are Grey Hunters - 2.1 models and Blood Claws - 7.02 models still with wolf priest still alive.

The whole point of this is that when BC assault, they do the job, even against one of the best units in the game. MEQ stats plus superior numbers will win you many combats.

Yes the unit was 100 points more and as such you should expect the higher pointed unit to win, but again this is how they are run in real games and why Blood Claws are effective.

You made a lot of assumptions there. Like the blood claws are in charge range even after they kill 1 GH and have 1 BC die to over watch.
Also a direct comparison would be better if the GHs had a Wolf Priest too. Or even a RP - again 100pts.

If you assume a Rune priest with prescience in the GHs the numbers change quite a lot. The GHs do:

6 Kills in shooting
1 Kill to overwatch

Once they're charged they kill (and with the RP counter attack will go off)
4 dead blood claws.
The RP kills 1.

The additional 100pt character surprise surprise increases their damage to where if the GHs go first, the blood claws will be pretty much dead. With only 3 and the Wolf Priest left. If a Wolf Priest was attached instead of the RP, it'd be even more in the favour of the GHs. That's not including the high chance that the GHs would also have MotW. Although the numbers would swing drastically in favour of the BCs if they some how managed to get the drop on the GHs.

The issue isn't that blood claws suck. The issue is that they're decent at assault, and that's it. And to assault with all of them, you really need a LRC, or those 15 + WP aren't going to make it over in one piece.

Grey Hunters drop podding down put them in charge range. You need to have all your guys within 12" for the double tap. This is how Grey hunters are played. The Bloodclaws have an assault range of 8 to 18" with a common distance of 13.5". Which is more than double tap distance,

So its not a stretch at all.

Add in a rune priest, why, who does that? Rune Priests babysit long fang squads. Even if you do that, you now loose 1 plasma gun because you are no longer a unit of 10 Grey Hunters.

Also I have 4 deaths from shooting because of the lack of the second plasma gun. The numbers don't change that much.

Also in assault the RP and WP face off, and it would probably be a mutal death, the RP would get one wound in and then activate the force weapon, while the Wolf Priest gets two wounds in and kills the Rune Priest. The BCs still win the combat and life continues.

BCs also don't need a landraider, you can give Saga of the hunter to the wolf priest and outflank with them. Thus putting pitching them to harass the side edge of your choosing. I myself use a Landraider Crusader, not because I needed a LR for the BC, but because I want to run a LRC so I might as well put something in it.

Blood Claws can not be judged in a vacuum. You got to take a lot of things into account.
Target Priority:
>Your Opponent: Everyone knows Blood Claws Junk [or at least that is what you want him to think]. Therefore they will not draw a lot of fire until it is too late or your opponent knows what they are capable and will direct a lot of fire. Both are a good for you because something is not being shot at.
>You: What are they good at; Soaking up damage, so what do you do with them, use them to claim objectives or tie up units. What is it they do best; take up table space and Force your opponent to deal with them.

Forced Multiplers:
Once more the best thing to put with them is a Wolf Priest, then a Wolf Guard Pack Leader. Conceder adding a WGPL with just a Storm Shield and MotW; You might as well of you have the Wolf Priest there. Think about those 3-8 Rending Attacks on the Assault with Re-Rolls. Or adding in Ragnar and watch what happened when you hit that 50 man Guard Blob with around 50-75 Attacks not including the Characters. You then have the WGPL or the Wolf Priest for the Challenge, both are going to ravage the Commissar or Priest that are with them.

But you're considering it all as if everything fancy happens just as you like it. It doesn't happen like that in a game. Assuming podding is also false. Ghs can and often do use rhinos, as do many troops. Having a big block of metal to prevent movement (but crucially not LOS) really works in their favour.
I chose a RP because more often than not, I bring 2 RPs. Long Fangs are pretty much a pre-heldrake and pre-markerlight/riptide unit, and an offensive RP is a powerful thing. It's foolish to keep them away from the action with the 24" psychic power nullifcation and JotWW (which admittedly can't be used with Prescience).

 Jayden63 wrote:

BCs also don't need a landraider, you can give Saga of the hunter to the wolf priest and outflank with them. Thus putting pitching them to harass the side edge of your choosing

Saga of the hunter would mean at earliest a T3 assault. For 1/3rd of the game the Blood Claws will have done nothing. It also means that against a gun line, you opponent gets a free turn to move away and shoot at them.

So to make blood claws "good" they require a 100pt character and either a 250pt transport or to sit out for 1 turn and not contribute for another. Man you're making them look more attractive each time you post.
Interestingly, the best use I've had out of BCs was 9 men with a WGPL in a Drop pod. They get completely ignored for the GHs and get off a T2 assault that always has an impact. Much cheaper and far more efficient than putting them in an LRC or having them sit around for 2 turns.

Don't blood claws get extra stuff when they charge? Where have I heard that scheme before? /stares at the DC

 Jayden63 wrote:
Grey Hunters drop podding down put them in charge range. You need to have all your guys within 12" for the double tap. This is how Grey hunters are played. The Bloodclaws have an assault range of 8 to 18" with a common distance of 13.5". Which is more than double tap distance,

So its not a stretch at all.

Add in a rune priest, why, who does that? Rune Priests babysit long fang squads. Even if you do that, you now loose 1 plasma gun because you are no longer a unit of 10 Grey Hunters.

Also I have 4 deaths from shooting because of the lack of the second plasma gun. The numbers don't change that much.

Also in assault the RP and WP face off, and it would probably be a mutal death, the RP would get one wound in and then activate the force weapon, while the Wolf Priest gets two wounds in and kills the Rune Priest. The BCs still win the combat and life continues.

BCs also don't need a landraider, you can give Saga of the hunter to the wolf priest and outflank with them. Thus putting pitching them to harass the side edge of your choosing. I myself use a Landraider Crusader, not because I needed a LR for the BC, but because I want to run a LRC so I might as well put something in it.

A lot of people add in a RP, mobile jaws is still amazing, further more, if not a wolf priest then definitely a wolf guard in TDA. Him alone with the standard going off will ruin the bloodclaws assault

 Jayden63 wrote:
Because I feel like bursting some bubbles.


(typical) Grey Hunter pack -
GH x 10 with two plasma guns, standard, MOTW and power weapon in Drop Pod is 220 points.

(typical Blood Claws)
BC x 15 with two flamers being lead by wolf Priest. 325 points.

Yes the BC cost an extra 100 points, yes its not fair in the points department, however, this is how units are run, and this is how they perform.

GH drop down and shoot - 16 bolters shots and four plasma shots is 4 dead BCs.

Now the BCs shoot and charge (the GH pop the banner). 10 bolt guns is 1.08 dead grey hunters. Two flamers (assuming 7 hits between both) is 1.15 for a total of 2.23.

Grey hunters fire overwatch - 1.15 dead

So now we have assault with 7.77 grey hunters vs 9.85 BC (plus wolf priest). We will be nice and assume the GH get counter attack off, however, with only LD 8 that is by far not a sure thing.

Anyway, after all is said and done, the Grey Hunters kill off 2.83 Blood Claws in the insuing assault phase. While the BC do 3.73 kills back and the wolf priest does - 2.03 dead marines for a total kill count of 5.76.

The Grey Hunters loose combat by just under 3, and are taking an LD check at LD6 but because of ATSKNF and both being I4 the fight continues.

Final survivors of this combat are Grey Hunters - 2.1 models and Blood Claws - 7.02 models still with wolf priest still alive.

The whole point of this is that when BC assault, they do the job, even against one of the best units in the game. MEQ stats plus superior numbers will win you many combats.

Yes the unit was 100 points more and as such you should expect the higher pointed unit to win, but again this is how they are run in real games and why Blood Claws are effective.

Who still takes Drop Pods Grey Hunters can single tap at 24" with 2 plasma and 8 bolters so...in my puppy armies i would have 2 units for a total of 20 Grey Hunters to your 1 unit of 16,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Blood Claws can not be judged in a vacuum. You got to take a lot of things into account.
Target Priority:
>Your Opponent: Everyone knows Blood Claws Junk [or at least that is what you want him to think]. Therefore they will not draw a lot of fire until it is too late or your opponent knows what they are capable and will direct a lot of fire. Both are a good for you because something is not being shot at.
>You: What are they good at; Soaking up damage, so what do you do with them, use them to claim objectives or tie up units. What is it they do best; take up table space and Force your opponent to deal with them.

Forced Multiplers:
Once more the best thing to put with them is a Wolf Priest, then a Wolf Guard Pack Leader. Conceder adding a WGPL with just a Storm Shield and MotW; You might as well of you have the Wolf Priest there. Think about those 3-8 Rending Attacks on the Assault with Re-Rolls. Or adding in Ragnar and watch what happened when you hit that 50 man Guard Blob with around 50-75 Attacks not including the Characters. You then have the WGPL or the Wolf Priest for the Challenge, both are going to ravage the Commissar or Priest that are with them.

Target Priority would be the Blood Claw if there running across the table!

Forced Multiplers LOL if you add in Ragnar the unit is now well over 600pts, Target Priority anyone with a gun shoot that unit. Setting that aside there is still a 1/3 chance your super deathstar will fail the charge 2d6 and leave you open to a 2nd round of plasma rapid fire death.

Melee in 6th ed is a joke, add in the allied table and any army other then Nids can have a Manticore or LRBT.
My SW army takes a LRBT for fluff reasons only, since it is named after MY Primarch and was in the 3rd codex , the IG cannon fodder i HAVE to take is not bad either

1/3 chance of rolling a double 1? Sorry guy that's just false. It's more like 1/33 chance.
Although of course there are other ways you can fail, but by the same token there are ways you can exceed the distance you originally expected.

Martel732 wrote:
Don't blood claws get extra stuff when they charge? Where have I heard that scheme before? /stares at the DC

Yes they get an extra attack when they Assault.

orkgoffrocker wrote:

1] Target Priority would be the Blood Claw if there running across the table!
2] Forced Multiplers LOL if you add in Ragnar the unit is now well over 600pts, Target Priority anyone with a gun shoot that unit. Setting that aside there is still a 1/3 chance your super deathstar will fail the charge 2d6 and leave you open to a 2nd round of plasma rapid fire death.

1] If you are not using them to hold an objective on your side of the board or having them in a LRC, how do you get them into Melee, their #1 Strength?

2] What happens if you roll like , you roll like and move on. I have failed a less than 3” Assault and it did not cost me the game, the Ork Mob in the same game pulling off the 11” Assault on the next turn is what cost me the game. I don’t worry about that stuff anymore if I did it would be time to sell off my armies and go back to playing Shute’s and Ladders.

Out of ignorance is "Shute's and Ladders" like Snakes and Ladders for Americans?
More importantly who's Shute, and why do the "and Ladders" belong to him?