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Hi there, I have played a hand full of games in 40k 6th and now want to start building an army!

I really would like some advice on how to build a competitive ork army at initially 500 pts and use it as a base to build up to 2000pts whilst hopefully not having any wasted models/money in the process if possible.

I will be playing and learning against mainly necrons with occasional eldar, ultramarine and tau battles.

Currently I have not played Orks but have a few models - ultimately I'm looking for your advice on how to add to these units to grow my army please. Also any tacts would be appreciated as my necron friend seems to have the upper hand here as he has played more than I have.

I am leaning towards a battle wagon deff kopta and bike setup - do you believe that's a viable approach?

I currently own -

Big mek with KFF conversion
War boss x2
Mad dok grot
Ghazkghull

20 boyz
Nobz 5
Lootas 5
3 Killa kans
Deff dred
1 mega nob
1 bike

Can I make a competitive 500pts out of this lot to play against the cron?
I believe at least I may need a few more boys?

I have my eye on a battle force and a battle wagon and some more Lootas too.
Any advice on how to pop the cron av14 vehicles as that appears to be a challenge.

He runs with these units in a typical 500-750 point game

Overlord
Obyron

Command barge
Ghost ark

10-20 warriors
5 immortals
Scarabs

3 heavy destroyers

Obviously not all those units at the same time but they are the units he owns and zandrek will soon be added to that lot I believe.
Any advice on units or tactica to help me with this lot would be great thanks.

Any good ork tactica sites any of you guys use?

Any help would be appreciated to help me on my journey.

Cheers.

A good foundation for orks will be starting with more boys. You only have enough boys for the bare minimum troop requirement, and that's no good way to play orks. The fact that you can easily put 60 models on the table at 500 pts does give you a distinct advantage. As for wagons and lootas- yes. They are great, every army should have a few. For general advice on popping av14- power klaw or deffrolla are really the only good, safe bets. A unit of big gunz with zzap guns could come in handy, or a big mek with SAG (But his shooting is best put to use elsewhere) Wierdboy can also shred 14, but you gotta get lucky enough to roll his melta power.

However, there is one,important, overriding rule about orks never to forget- HAVE FUN! If you play orks to be competitive, you are gonna hate life. Build a list outta units you like, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Growing your list is about what you wanna do as orks. Cover the board in vehicles? Drown em in boyz? Bring up the bikes? Orks are about playing what YOU want to play!

Great thanks for that dragon a good start!

I do want to be able to be competitive against my friends but like you say I'm mainly playing for fun and learning although my friend is ruthless with his necron!!

Reading up and what you've said the best way to approach this would be for me to get some battle wagons as they are a heavy duty dangerous and a transport. Just concerned how the rear armour will fair up against the necron but is suppose that will come down to tactics also.

I would like to go with two wagons with boyz or lootaz on board to lay down some heavy fire on the move with meks for hull point protection. Bikes with warboss maybe and some deffkoptas. Does this sound feasible?

Trying to approach this with a shooty style as I know 6th leans that way then once the enemy has been thinned I'd finish them with a charge. Unless that sounds awful to you?

Is it a good rule to have 60 boys per 500 points?

I may start with a battle force and a battle wagon to get the units I like and need.

Do battle wagons work well as mobile shooting platforms and will the bikes and koptaz distract from the wagons? That would be my idea anyways...

Thanks.

Neo-5 wrote:
Great thanks for that dragon a good start!

I do want to be able to be competitive against my friends but like you say I'm mainly playing for fun and learning although my friend is ruthless with his necron!!

Reading up and what you've said the best way to approach this would be for me to get some battle wagons as they are a heavy duty dangerous and a transport. Just concerned how the rear armour will fair up against the necron but is suppose that will come down to tactics also.

Battlewagons work best as a CC delivery system, same as you would use a landraider for marines. Against necrons in specific, it does not really matter what vehicles you bring, because the Gauss special rule states that a 6 is always a glance. Necrons are a bit infamous for their ability to glance any vehicle to death in a single round of shooting.

I would like to go with two wagons with boyz or lootaz on board to lay down some heavy fire on the move with meks for hull point protection. Bikes with warboss maybe and some deffkoptas. Does this sound feasible?

Feasible yeah, sept for the loota bit. with lootas, you abuse their 48" range, and park a squad of 10 in cover. this way, as soon as they get shot at, you go to ground to get a 3+ cover save. You should never add a mek to a squad of lootas, its a waste of a perfectly good deffgun. For transport meks, either use your big mek with kff (cause he ain't shootin anyway) or burna boys, as they are also great for protecting a transport with flamer overwatch.

Trying to approach this with a shooty style as I know 6th leans that way then once the enemy has been thinned I'd finish them with a charge. Unless that sounds awful to you?

Shootys great. I run shooty, but I also run choppy. Whatever's fun to you

Is it a good rule to have 60 boys per 500 points?

You don't have to, but few opponents will have good anti-horde at that value

I may start with a battle force and a battle wagon to get the units I like and need.

For building up your army, a battle force will be woefully inadequate. Only really get a ton of em if you plan on using both bikes and trukks. the fact is, you get less points in the ork battleforce than you do in pretty much anyone elses. If you can get a hold of old black reach sets, you are gonna be way better off, especially if you plan on using koptas.

Do battle wagons work well as mobile shooting platforms and will the bikes and koptaz distract from the wagons? That would be my idea anyways...

Nah, battlewagons are assault boats.

Thanks.

Against necrons, a couple units that can be nasty are- Lootas, Looted Wagons, and Bikes. As your friend does not appear to use lots of immortals, lootas ignore their armor, and bikes of any kind (deffcoptas included) are harder for him to hit due to being t5. Looted wagons will be a mixed bag, (armor 11/11/10, a little expensive, and can occasionally derp it up and not fire) but if you give them a boomgun, being able to drop ap3 pieplates at 36" away is just golden. Other than that, a mass of boys should work well, so long as you remember the golden rule of add a nob, and give him a bosspole and a power klaw.

There was a similar post up a week ago, and I'm reposting my response to it on this thread, with the numbers changed to reflect a 500 point army:

The main goal of almost all ork armies is to bring your boys into assault with the enemy. The tricky part is keeping them alive until you get into assault range, because orks tend to die in the shooting phase. There are 3 way main ways to get to the enemy.

1. Include biker nobs, which harass and distract the enemy until the boys are in range.
2. Put the boys in battlewagons to get them there faster.
3. Have so many boys that they can't all be killed before getting in range.

If you like strategy 1, get 7-10 biker nobz and about 40 boys
If you like strategy 2, get 2 battle wagons and 40 boys.
If you like strategy 3. Get 20 gretchin and 60 boys.

You should also get 7-15 lootas. Lootas are awesome and can kill anything. Also a big mek with a kff is really helpful for keeping your boys alive, you should almost always use him as your hq.

Killa Kans are good. Get another box of them. Better point-for-point than Dreads. Right now you just need another few boys and you're well on your way to a Kan wall list. As is, you can't really field a functional WYSIWYG list. But you're close. A battleforce would put you way closer. Check on eBay, people are always liquidating big chunks of army.

Orks are WH 40K: Hard Mode. We don't play orks for tactics, or to win, or to have the flashiest new models.

We play to fight.

wow wow... did i just hear someone say killa kans are ¨good¨?
this is sixth eddition where glances kill them with str 5! They are easily taken down, Personally they worked allot better in the previous eddition (4+ cover)

Boyz before toyz.

True, they can be glanced to death. But they also cost 40 points for DCCW, and BS3 with something good. Run them as a wall, and get them stuck in with other infantry. Not *best*, but still pretty hurky.

Thanks for the advice guys much appreciated!

I think I will keep my eyes peeled for the black reach set see if I can pick up some cost effective unit that's way.

Loving the lootaz models and pleased they are very effective! Painting some as I type! Ill stack pleanty of them - can you ever have too many lootaz?! Is it best to split the units to give more shots at different units or just go for shot saturation on one target with on big unit?

So battlewagons with boyz aboard with meks to protect with repair and KFF. Some 36'' kannons and some bikes and deffkoptas to bring the pain and get round the back of his vehicles!? Lootaz hanging in the back field.

Are trukks useless in 6th as they sound like they would dive pretty quick and with only 12 boyz in each I'd assume you'd need loads to cause the enemy any issues?

My friend will port Obryon in to my back fire line to nuke the lootaz in melee I know this. Is a body gaurd for the lootaz a good idea to protect them? Deffdread hanging about or something like?!

I really like the tank bustaz and snikrot and kommandos and badrukk is there no way of playing them competively as no one I talk to or posts I read use them. Shame as they're awesome models!

May try out the kans as it sounds fun but it seems most list don't contain them but as I have some already but I will have a play with them.

Apologies if I have duplicated questions asked by other but I have read the recent ork posts but I feel I want to discuss things abit more to suit the vs necron and tsctics side of things.

All repossess are great and any advice is welcomed

Thanks all keep the advice coming I'm all ears!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also are there any models for looted wagons - I am missing something or do you have to convert your own?

Daft question maybe but had to ask as I don't see any at GW

Zagstruck is nasty, but a bit pricey. Snikrot is also good, and lets you jump some brutal units right into enemy lines, but since outflankers can't assault the turn they come in, it means he gets cut up pretty quick. Trukks are nice, but the key is target saturation, and knowing your enemies army. Tank boys are fun, but their shooting is garbage, and yes, looted wagons are and they can get kited pretty easily. And yes, LW are whatever you find or make.

Ah sweet on the looted wagons as I have a rhino And predator which are unused so I can proxy them till I get a chance to carve them up! Good stuff there!

I was thinking of snikrot sneaking on to the back edge of the table to pop some tanks in the rear. Can snikrot join any unit allowing them to come on a table edge or just kommandos as I don't have my codex here at the mo.

My mate bombs all he necron forward in command barge and arks and uses heavy destroyers too so to come in from behind would give home something to think about. He then drops Obryon in behind me and squeezes me from both sides so if I can do the same it may catch him off guard.

I have 5 storm boyz I forgot I had which I could attach zag too again giving distraction away from me battlewagons etc will have to have a read up on what makes him nasty as I've not given him much attention up to now.

Great stuff thanks

Snikrot is kommandos only, and only useful if you bring burnas. Ork BS is too low to really warrant rokkits, but with the issue you mentioned, rokkits would allow him and his mob to be an issue.

Zagstrukk is nasty because his PKs hit at normal initiative, and if you're willing to sacrifice d3 boys, his unit can assault immediately after deepstrike.

Ah that does sound nasty I will have a play with that idea although a few more storm boyz will be needed to be able to get away with losing d3 as I only have 5!

Ah kommandos only makes sense but is a shame

Is badrukk competitive in any way? Loving the model but does he lay down enough dakka for his cost?

Thinking I'm getting close to an army idea I will see if I can get something together.

Feel free to throw any more comments my way based on the above posts as any info is good info for a noob like me!

Cheers guys


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any offers on how to protect lootaz in the back field from a teleporting necron obyron? Or similar deep striking units.

As I know my friend will use this tactic immediately once he knows how dangerous te lootaz can be.

Sorry I know I'm throwin a million questions at you at once!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any offers on how to protect lootaz in the back field from a teleporting necron obyron? Or similar deep striking units.

As I know my friend will use this tactic immediately once he knows how dangerous te lootaz can be.

Sorry I know I'm throwin a million questions at you at once!!

No, badrukk is not worth it. He looks really cool, but he's just toting a plasma fun, really. If he was only 85 points he might be. But not at his current cost

Lootas work best when lurked in cover and in the biggest squads possible. They're fine on their own, since they are still orks in their own right. Plus, their overwatch is brutal. I killed that nasty DA terminator HQ Guy with them that way. He's tough, but there were a lot of heavy hits incoming.

Awesome - I like them more and more the more I read about them! Lootaz sounds awesome can't wait to give a blast!

Shame about badrukk hope he gets a over haul if we get a new codex

Guys I've come up with this list as a starter 500 pts to build off what do you think.

Mek KFF 85
29 boyz 2 big shootas with nob PK BP - 244
Deffdread rokkits x2 - 95
Lootas x5 - 75

499

Or

Mek KFF 85
19 boyz 1 big shoota with nob PK BP - 169
19 boyz 1 big shoota with nob PK BP - 169
Lootas x5 - 75

498

Does the mek give any bonus to the dread at all?

Will be going up against a typical eldar battle force or necron.

Cheers

I'm planning on spending 600+ points on a unit of biker nobz and also having 20 lootas.

I like to think orks are about spam.

(600 points on a single unit of biker nobz is in no way competative btw)

The bikers sound awesome i want some in my army when the size increases.

Any criticism of my first list for a 500 pts shown above?

Also what's the best way to tactically organise a mob of thirty orks so lootaz still have line of sight? Sounds tricky

Deploy them in in cover so that they can see the a large portion of the field. Dont worry too much about them ebing in vision of the enemy, the vast ammount of boys rushing forward each turn should draw their shooting away from them lest get swamped.

I played my friends orks who used a deff dread and a unit of killa kans with grot zookas. They make gerat support for the boys and can still throw out some nice damage on the advance. Also. Don't forget that the Big Mek makes a deff dread a troops choice. This comes in very handy more often than you might think in terms of stealing an objective.

Ah nice I must admit I've read that dreads aren't that great but I've just finished painting mine and would love to use it but also I want to be the most competitive I can so if boys are better than dread ill take them.

Dread may distract my opponents fire away from the lootas though?

Thought about having it follow the boys for protection does the meks KFF give the dread the 'obscured target' like it does when the mek is in a vehicle?

Not sure how the KFF works with dreads? Any offers

Thanks for the advice

If uw anna be competative take tons of boys with shootas. Tons of lootas. A couple of dakka jets. and big meks with KFF to help the boys on their way to crush stuff.

That way if you take A Big Mek you get a useful Deff dread that counts as troops and you get to field your nice model . Killa kanz will always work well in support of a footslogging army too.

 Dragonfodder wrote:
A good foundation for orks will be starting with more boys. You only have enough boys for the bare minimum troop requirement, and that's no good way to play orks.

However, there is one,important, overriding rule about orks never to forget- HAVE FUN!

Some of us simply loathe the logistics behind bringing a bunch of boys. Theres nothing I hate more than trying to charge 30 Slugga boys into combat, with all their goddamn little axes getting in each others way and stuff. Or trying to march 20 Shoota boys across some uneven terrain piece the size of a dinner plate. Or having to march 180 boys of either type even just across a flat surface - thats my hell!

So OP, if you don't want to bring tons of boys, or don't have tons of boys, you don't have to. Best thing to do in that case is scratch build some trukks (cheap toy from the dollar store + spiky bits made of popsicle sticks) and run trukk boys.

As for your lists, firstly, never say "boys" - theres a world of difference between shoota and slugga boys and it has a huge impact on what you should be putting in the unit, ie that Nob. A PK Nob is generally a waste of time with the new challenge rules, and almost always a waste of time on Shoota boys. The main exception to this is PKs in transports, as you've got a good chance of getting that PK to a vehicle and flippin it over that way. Or, use more than one Nob, two might work but generally more than that - so list #2 could possibly pull it off but just prepare yourself mentally for your sweet as PKs to fail miserably. Deffdreads are generally rubbish IMO. Some lists aren't prepared for them and will die terribly, but most have at least a handful of AT guns that can nuke it easily.

Sofar, list #2 krumps list #1 handily, but theres one other thing. The KFF Mek. Everybody loves that thing, but I reckon its a waste of time unless either its covering a ton of boys, covering expensive models, or covering vehicles. Just think, to earn back the cost of the Mek, you've gotta save 14x 5+ saves. So 45 dead Orks. Your going to run out of boys long before you make your money back in list one, and list two is still pushing it. And even if you could stop enough shots, in this case, why not just run 14 extra boys? Thats as good as 14 saved wounds *and* its more dakka and choppy for your army. Whatever you do, just don't consider that KFF to be mandatory, because its really not.

For competitive Orks, you want Lootas, Dakkajets, Supa-Kannon Big Trakks (if FW isn't banned), and possibly biker Nobs. Shoota Boys should also be taken for your compulsary troops, and probably beyond that too, though I don't reckon they're as good as everyone says. Theres a few other units too (MANz, Painboy, SAG for instnace) but these are the main ones. Out of all of that stuff, I gotta say the Supa-Kannon Big Trakk is the best unit IMO, I never run a competitive list without them now.

To be clear I meant shoota boyz and after reading up a little bit I though the nob and PK and BP were near enough a requirement but with challenges I see why not!

I see your point on just taking more boyz and scraping the KFF too as I have little of importance at 500 points worth saving. Good point. These are the tips I'm after

Ultimately I want to grow into a kopta bike battle wagons and lootas army maybe with some kannons for cover and get into my opponents face fast. My friend plays necron and I struggle to beat him normally but we are still learning.

I don't want 1000s of boys ideally as I want everything to be painted and won't be able to manage that many!

Will have a look at the suppa kannon big trakk as I haven't read up in that as yet. What makes it so good in your opinion??
I suppose the supa-kannon is a good start!

Great information there such a great help thanks please feel free to give any more advice in 500-1000 point setups and tactics I'm as learning loads on dakka about orks

Cheers for your lengthily response

The Supa-Trakk is pretty much a Looted Wagon, with longer range, +1 AV, no "don't press dat", and more weapons options. You can find it in Imperial Armour 8.

Necrons are amongst the strongest armies, and Orks, having not seen a real update in like a decade, are amongst the weakest. So your probably going to have trouble beating your mate for a while yet.

At low points, Ork infantry are brutally good. I cannot recommend anything to you that will be stronger than like, 100 boys + extra bits.

What you need to do though, is just disregard the models you have and proxy them as stuff you want to try out. Every single game you should try some new unit you've never used before until you know more or less what everything in the codex is actually capable of.

With regards to what you want your army to become, trust me, you have no idea what you actually want, and won't do so until you've tried it all out. The ones you really want to try out are;

>Trukk Boys (11 sluggas, PK Nob, Trukk w/ ram, other bits)
>Trukk or Battlewagon MANz
>Reinforced Ram upgrade for vehicles
>Lootas (try units of 5, 10, or 15, and try a 45 Loota list at least once)
>Biker Nobs in both small and large units and different numbers of Power Klaws. Always give them a Painboy and Cybork unless running a minimum squad.
>Warboss w/ Bike
>Dakkajets (don't bother with the other fliers, they're terrible)
>Looted Wagons / Supa-Trakks if FW is fine
>Battlewagons (in three forms - deffrolla transport, deffrolla + burna boys, "dakkawagon" w/ 20 shoota boys and a bunch of guns but no deff rolla)
>Aegis Defence Line manned by Gretchin, or by the extra Krew of a Big gun. If you've got a Lascannon for it, use a Big Gun krew and let the ammo runts give you re-rolls for the Lascannon shots.
>Grot Bomm Launcha

Awesome info again thanks!

Yeah I've had a few games against the cron with a few chaos models I have and I've won 1 out if 4 although we aren't exactly up to speed with all the rules but I know what you mean about being competitive against the cron!

What would you advise against the AV14 shield the cron get what's the best way to take it down? A few people mentioned above but I wondered what you thought also.- a barrage of rokkits or a looted wagon maybe?

He runs these units at 750-1000

Command barge
Obryon
Immortals
Warriors + ark
Scarabs
Heavy destroyers

Any tips you have for countering any of those units? I was thinking fast attack bikes and koptaz to get in close and rokkits to pop the vehicles. Bring up the rear with battlewagon full of shoota boyz.

Like you said above though I will try as many units as I can I like the thought of snikrot infiltrate and also zogwart squiging a hq! Bike boss looks awesome too

Thanks again

Basically as in a previous post. The best thing about orks is there are a lot of options for fun lists. Which is why Im allying orks with my nurgle marines (I call them norks).

They are in dire need of a new codex though...

Three pieces of advice that haven't been mentioned before that I find to be true for orks are - Be prepared to die, have redundancy and share a speed/momentum. Here's what I mean:

Be prepared to die:
Orks die. A lot. I am sure you have found this out in your games, but do not put all of your eggs in one basket if it is avoidable. Chances are, that basket is going to fall over, light on fire, explode, and then kill all the eggs...because that's just how Orks work. New players tend to get very attached to the one cool thing they love in their army. Instead of having one awesome thing, have a cool ARMY so that no matter what happens, you won't get down on yourself for losing your prized squad o' doom. How do we combat this inevitable loss of Orks?

Redundancy:
One battlewagon isn't that big a deal. Two has now become a problem for your opponent. Three is scary. One unit of 30 boys isn't so bad. 60 boys is a problem. 90 is very hard to entirely remove from the game etc. It helps make sure that at least one or two of that unit will make it to the intended target, as Orks are going to die. It's just a fact. The only way that your opponent can remove your ability to score is to kill 90 boyz, which is hard. Or stop 3 wagons in two turns at most, also hard. So, now that we have some of the redundancy explained, combine it with the speed / momentum.

Momentum / Speed:
You want all of your units (generally) to be traveling at the same speed across the table, and then all arriving in one huge wave. Two general forms of this are foot slogging (aka all "walking") or speedy (wagons, trukks, bikes, koptas etc.)

If you are going for a wagon and kopta list as a priority then that is good speed synergy as they will all be moving 12+ inches per turn and sticking together. It forces your opponent to choose what he/she thinks is the most threatening, as everything is threatening them at the same moment. Plus, you still have all of your firepower to bare in your turn. You don't want your opponent to be able to take things out piecemeal.

My personal list for 1500 is:

Big Mek w/ KFF, cybork, burna x2 (ride with the 19 boyz squads)

19 shoota boyz
Nob w/ PK, bosspole, eavy armor (modeled this way already)
Big shoota

19 shoota boyz
Nob w/ PK, bosspole, eavy armor (modeled this way already)
Big shoota

20 Shoota boyz
Nob w/ PK, bosspole, eavy armor (modeled this way already)
Big shoota x2

Battlewagon x3
- Deff Rolla, 4x Big Shootas, grot riggers

DakkaJet
- extra guns etc

Burna Bomber / Dakka Jet (experimenting which one I like)
- Extra guns / bombs etc

Dubbed the "Blitzkrieg" list, it all moves forward with a wall of wagons, supported by dakkajets overhead and with a shield bubble across all the wagons. Sure it may not be the most competitive, but it is pretty fun and has tons of dakka and cool flavor stuff that makes me have a fun time vs a WAAC time. It also covers my three advice topics of inevitable death (because all orks die) redundancy (three wagons, two jets, two meks), and speed (everything mounted or flying). It may seem silly, but a list like this is not concerned about taking home objectives. It's about getting in your face and fighting, because that's what Orks do. I rarely win, but it's damn fun.

Note: Two exceptions to the "speed" rule are probably lootas and nob bikers. Bikes bc they are dead killy and have pretty good survivability on their own before the rest of the army arrives (if slogging) and the lootas are just a great support unit no matter what speed your army is moving at.

Hope this has helped in some way. Others may disagree but them haha. Nah, Orks are more about fun in my opinion that WAAC. And as a new player you should be having fun and figuring out what stuff you like and dislike, and then using it to the best you can.

- WAAGH!

chuxfm wrote:
Basically as in a previous post. The best thing about orks is there are a lot of options for fun lists. Which is why Im allying orks with my nurgle marines (I call them norks).

They are in dire need of a new codex though...

What about Rotboys? Thats what I used to call the Nurgle Orks I came up with back in the day.

Goddamnit, Chaos Orks would be amazing. Gork and Mork are cool and all, but I want Rotboys and Berserker Orks and all that other awesome stuff they could get.

What would you advise against the AV14 shield... various Necron units

I haven't played much against Necrons so I can't be much help against specifics.

Against AV 14, Supa-Trakks are S9 Ordinance meaning they get two dice for penetration (though no modifier on the damage table) - they could stun lock it to death if not outright kill it. SAG Meks can also hurt it, but with varying results (a double 6 is hilarious). Finally, a Lascannon on an Aegis wall manned by extra Krew from Big Guns can put an TL BS 3 S9 AP 2 shot downrange every turn which is probably the single best anti-tank shooting we've got (sad I know). Or of course, just hurl power klaws at it until it pops, or ram it with Reinforced Ram Trukks for automatic penetrating hits!

Against the specific list, well, honestly its Green Tide that takes the win in my mind. Heavy Destroyers are just too damn good against vehicles. The only other option I can recommend are gunline Orks, probably minus the Supa-Trakks because of those goddamn Heavy Destroyers. Run a ton of Lootas, three Dakkajets (proxy them in), SAG Meks and Shoota Boys, and an Aegis. Without non-flying vehicles a good chunk of his army is now worthless. Sit back and dakka him into oblivion.

Deff Koptas are crap. They won't pop anything. I'd say take Nob Bikers over regular bikers and maybe run them with a Bikerboss.

Some amazing info there guys thanks so much!

Bikers seems to be a good bet based on what most people have mentioned so ill get myself some of those for sure as they look pretty awesome too.

Yeah those destroyers are seriously scary jump troop with lascannons seems like a heavy support and fast attack all in one! Oh well those and the command barge will have to get the bulk of my fire first.

What makes the koptas that much worse than the bikes?

Thanks for the info much appreciated!

Big blobs of shootas are the core of the army to start.

Lootas are a deal and are shooty deadly.

Follow up with rocket launcher Koptas, twin linked missiles, toughness 5, multi-wound jinking models are nothing to treat lightly. Shots from multiple directions tend to spread out wounds (remember closest to closest).

Nobs on bikes is a whole different kind of hurt.