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I need to fill the last 150pts in this competitive guard list:

CCS with 3 plasmas in chimera 150

PCS with 3 meltas in chimera 115
PIS with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher in Chimera 120
PIS with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher in Chimera 120
Veteran Squad with 3 Meltas in Chimera155

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

2 x Griffons in a Squadron 150
2 x Griffons in a Squadron 150

Maybe another CCS with plasma? Or a demolisher to draw fire? Or a manticore? Or more veterans? Or 2 Hydras?

There's so much to choose from!

You could start by adding another plasma to your ccs. afaik they can take 4.
On the other hand people ( at least online) really don´t like non-vets in chimeras especially not armed with autocannons and grenade launchers. I´d rather make em vets too or leave em em on foot and give them better weapons like lascannons.
Your Vendettas are troop carriers, they should be carrying troops for some nifty objective theft! I´d like to load those dudes with flamers.

Well vendetta's can hold troops so get rid of the chimeras and place them veterans in vendetta's. That should have saved you 165 points, total 315 points remaining.

I would buy more troops as meatshields, a lord commissar for his lvl 10 LD bubble and a manticore. Those things do awesome fireworks

Hmmm... the whole point of this list is to have a large amount of armour saturation to prevent anti-infantry weapons being effective, therefore every extra armour valued target I can squeeze in will add massively to the strain on the enemy's anti-tank weapons (which will be targeted as soon as possible, particularly by griffons sniping heavy weapons out of units. Most armies will have a fair bit of trouble lighting up 12 AV12 targets (including flyers) and I want to be adding to that rather than taking away...

I could replace the platoon with vets I suppose, but they do add some cheaper chimeras and a very cheap melta death squad...

I'm not sure about troops inside vendettas either - would some special weapons squads be worth it? I'm just very conscious of the fact that when they're knocked out of the sky the contents go down in flames, and guard don't tend to live long exposed to enemy firepower!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Hmmm... the whole point of this list is to have a large amount of armour saturation to prevent anti-infantry weapons being effective, therefore every extra armour valued target I can squeeze in will add massively to the strain on the enemy's anti-tank weapons (which will be targeted as soon as possible, particularly by griffons sniping heavy weapons out of units. Most armies will have a fair bit of trouble lighting up 12 AV12 targets (including flyers) and I want to be adding to that rather than taking away...

I could replace the platoon with vets I suppose, but they do add some cheaper chimeras and a very cheap melta death squad...

I'm not sure about troops inside vendettas either - would some special weapons squads be worth it? I'm just very conscious of the fact that when they're knocked out of the sky the contents go down in flames, and guard don't tend to live long exposed to enemy firepower!

With 3 vendettas to shoot at, what are the odds of them all being blown out of the sky before you could drop them off?
It does however make them more of a priority target if they are carrying some decent troops. Opponents will want to stop you from dropping your guys around. But it might take the heat off other more vulnerable things.

Your vendettas would soak up alot of firepower if they were carrying valuable targets.
If they manage to survive, (let's be honest, they're fairly tough) then you'd be at a massive advantage.

Chimeras are easier to blow up than Vendettas.

It's a gamble.

DoomMouse wrote:Hmmm... the whole point of this list is to have a large amount of armour saturation to prevent anti-infantry weapons being effective, therefore every extra armour valued target I can squeeze in will add massively to the strain on the enemy's anti-tank weapons (which will be targeted as soon as possible, particularly by griffons sniping heavy weapons out of units. Most armies will have a fair bit of trouble lighting up 12 AV12 targets (including flyers) and I want to be adding to that rather than taking away...

Mechanized IG is a perfectly valid tactic. I like it myself. I think what some of the previous posters are trying to point out is that you are assuming a very favorable series of events turning out in your favor. As they say, the more I prepare, the luckier I get.

I could replace the platoon with vets I suppose, but they do add some cheaper chimeras and a very cheap melta death squad...

The Chimeras aren't as much of a threat as you might imagine. They do a decent job of bringing more firepower to the table than a Rhino and have better Fire Points, but they will not distract your opponent from your Heavy Ordnance. They might provide a cover save, but why pay 65 for an impromptu 5+ when you can pay 50 for a big and wide 4+. Get an Aegis Defense Line. The ADL is silly-good for IG gunlines.

Don't forget that a Company Commander has the Get Back in the Fight Order. This helps you make good use of the 2+ Going to Ground cover save behind the ADL for 1 or 2 units a turn.

It's not really a cheap Melta squad in the sense that it's unlikely to be effective. The PCS has BS3. In the Chimera, 1/2 the squad will die if the Chimera explodes. The Chimera is limited to 6" movement if you want to make much use of the guys inside. For 10 points cheaper, you can get 2 BS4 Meltas in a Stormtroopers squad. They have a slightly lower chance of hitting (2 x .66 < 3 x .5) but they have a much better chance of getting a rear armor angle, getting within 6" for the 2d6 roll, for making a difference on turn 2 rather than 4. All that, plus they only give up 1 kill point, not 2, and give you an extra shot at First Blood and Line-breaker.

So do I recommend Stormtrooper with Meltas? No. Better =/= and IG has even better toys.

DoomMouse wrote:I need to fill the last 150pts in this competitive guard list:

CCS with 3 plasmas in chimera 150 get a 4th weapon and this is fine. This is a good TEQ Deepistriking in response squad. With Meltas, it becomes a good Dreadnought DSing in response squad.

PCS with 3 meltas in chimera 115 I don't like the IP in a Non-Alrahem Mechanized list, but if you have to have it, seriously consider putting these troops in the Vendettas rather than Chimeras, and equipping them accordingly. 4x Flamers? Maybe use the points you save to add a HWS and stick it behind the ADL for your CC to give orders to.
PIS with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher in Chimera 120
PIS with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher in Chimera 120

Veteran Squad with 3 Meltas in Chimera155 This is good but pay attention to which you use more successfully, the Vets or CCS, and under what circumstances. Consider swapping the Special Weapons if appropriate.

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

2 x Griffons in a Squadron 150
2 x Griffons in a Squadron 150

Maybe another CCS with plasma? Or a demolisher to draw fire? Or a manticore? Or more veterans? Or 2 Hydras?

You lack long range, high strength shots on turn one. The Manticore will help with this. This will make it easier (but not easy) to accomplish your stated goal of eliminating the enemy's AT early.
A demolisher says loudly and proudly "you may not come over here while I am here" It forms a great no-TEQ bubble.
If you have access to Hydras, you might also have access to Medusaes. With an ADL, these are better than Demolishers in a gunline IMO
I would go with the Manticore in an all comers list, but consider what is popular in your area and adjust accordingly.

There's so much to choose from!

Your list seems to be an Anti-Infantry list well suited to an Infantry heavy meta-game environment. If that is the case, change little. If not, consider your options to better prepare vs many kinds of opponents, rather than just the Horde/Blob armies. good luck

The Chimeras aren't as much of a threat as you might imagine. They do a decent job of bringing more firepower to the table than a Rhino and have better Fire Points, but they will not distract your opponent from your Heavy Ordnance. They might provide a cover save, but why pay 65 for an impromptu 5+ when you can pay 50 for a big and wide 4+. Get an Aegis Defense Line. The ADL is silly-good for IG gunlines.

Don't forget that a Company Commander has the Get Back in the Fight Order. This helps you make good use of the 2+ Going to Ground cover save behind the ADL for 1 or 2 units a turn.

It's not really a cheap Melta squad in the sense that it's unlikely to be effective. The PCS has BS3. In the Chimera, 1/2 the squad will die if the Chimera explodes. The Chimera is limited to 6" movement if you want to make much use of the guys inside. For 10 points cheaper, you can get 2 BS4 Meltas in a Stormtroopers squad. They have a slightly lower chance of hitting (2 x .66 < 3 x .5) but they have a much better chance of getting a rear armor angle, getting within 6" for the 2d6 roll, for making a difference on turn 2 rather than 4. All that, plus they only give up 1 kill point, not 2, and give you an extra shot at First Blood and Line-breaker.

So do I recommend Stormtrooper with Meltas? No. Better =/= and IG has even better toys

I suppose I've only ever used a squad of two griffons before, and they were relatively easy to block line of sight to. Maybe four will be harder! An ADL is definitely an option, but it might impede my advance a little- it's handy for the griffons to constantly reposition themselves while they bombard the enemy to make best use of cover etc. Also chimeras behind defence lines would probably have to be a little static...

I'm not sure I'm sold on the stormtroopers, they just seem a little pricey for suicide units that don't have an armour value in this list. I can imagine they'd be excellent against land raiders and heavy battle tanks, but surely there are going to be a lot of matchups where they're not going to be effective? I can't say I've ever used them however.

At the moment I'm thinking maybe take another CCS with plasma weapons? A manticore would be nicer, but I don't really see what I could drop to save the 15pts without compromising a unit. I could add scoring units to the vendettas, but I can't really imagine them accomplishing much more than the four I alread have on the table - I have two to take home field objectives plus two for moving forwards.

Maybe I'll try and think up another list based round an ADL - for some reason I really have trouble designing hybrid lists, I just seem to want either everything to have an armour value or nothing to. It's probably a weakness.

Well, if you want armor saturation, you can do it, but chimeras aren't the only way about it.

For example, you could tweak your list a little bit to look like...

CCS - 3x melta, chimera

PCS - 3x melta, chimera
PIS - melta (in vendetta)
PIS - melta (in vendetta)

Vets - 3x melta, chimera
Vets - 3x melta, chimera

2x hellhounds, multimeltas
Vendetta
Vendetta

Medusa
Medusa


In this case, you get an extra scoring unit, and you lose one of your ground-borne pieces of AV12, but it gets upgraded from 12/10 open topped to 12/12 non-open topped, so it's more durable. Plus, the whole army is more mobile, and comes with both more anti-infantry and anti-tank firepower.