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This is about special characters that make certain non-troop choice in the FOC into troop choice. While making my Greenwing list with Azzy, I came across a problem of having to give up my tac squad in order to fit my bikes and termies. See below for reference:

10 termies, 25 rines, 6 bikes

I initially wanted to take two 5-man termie squad and two 3-man bike squad so I can give the option of splitting their firepower and take 4 meltas on the bikes. The problem is that the tac squad takes up 3 slots, leaving me only 3 slots to allocate the bikes & termies. As a part of dakka banner list, loss of 5-man meant potential loss of 20 extra bolter shots. So instead I made full squad of termies.

When you field characters like Azrael, do the bikes/termies simply count as troop choices for the purposes of them being a scoring unit or are they meant to take up the troop slot?

They take up a troop slot if the SR says they can be taken as a troop choice. If the rule simply says they are scoring then they are scoring but still in whatever slot they had been taken for.

Yes they take a troops slot that is the whole point of these characters. Not sure why you'd want Terminator troops choices in a dakka banner list but that is for the other forum

Do they must and necessarily be a troop choice, or can you decide not to "treat them as" troop choice?

It depends on the wording of the rule in question:
Some say "such-and-such count as troops" which means no choice, they're troops.
Some say "such-and-such may be taken as troops" which is an optional one.
And as Grav said, some say "such-and-such are scoring", which doesn't change their FOC.

{Edit} From memory, I believe Azrael isn't optional.

Quanar wrote:
It depends on the wording of the rule in question:
Some say "such-and-such count as troops" which means no choice, they're troops.
Some say "such-and-such may be taken as troops" which is an optional one.
And as Grav said, some say "such-and-such are scoring", which doesn't change their FOC.

{Edit} From memory, I believe Azrael isn't optional.

Yes, this is why I was having this trouble... As I remember, the rules for Azrael was written like the 1st one.

skchsan wrote:
I initially wanted to take two 5-man termie squad and two 3-man bike squad so I can give the option of splitting their firepower and take 4 meltas on the bikes.

Uh... You have Combat Squads. Just make a 10 man TDA and 6 man Biker squad and use Combat Squads. 4 Meltas is cute, but you can take 3 with a Combi-Melta on the Sergeant so who cares?

cowmonaut wrote:
You have Combat Squads. Just make a 10 man TDA and 6 man Biker squad and use Combat Squads. 4 Meltas is cute, but you can take 3 with a Combi-Melta on the Sergeant so who cares?

I wish... termies dont have combat squad option. As for the bikes, taking two 3-man squads allow me to attach an attack bike on both for super cute 6 meltas! (plus 2 melta bombs) Now... if i were to spend those extra points for combimelta on both sergeants...

Actually, the Attack Bike (and Landspeeder if you take one) is a separate unit, running by itself, when you deploy. (Edit: I just realized you probably already know that but still wanted the more Melta) I think RAW even if you don't make use of Ravenwing Combat Squads. That sucks about Deathwing Terminators, but considering the other bonuses its hard to complain. Still, 1 Ravenwing + Combat Squads, 2 Deathwing x5 man, and you still get 3 Tactical squads which isn't bad either.