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So one of my fellow wargamers plays eldar with tau allies and completely destroys me every time. Granted, I've only played casual lists against him but I can't really think of a way to beat it.

He brings in a 2000 point list.

Eldrad
Farseer with divination
5 reapers
gaurdian squad with EML
aegis line with quad gun
5 pathfinders
6 fire dragons
3 D cannons
Wraithlord with brightlance and EML
2 missile broadsides
10-15 fire warriors (I don't remember how many)
and a tau commander with 3 body guard (almost every upgrade imaginable on them)

How would you take on this army? I can't try out-shoot because his seems to always ignore armor and cover while getting to re-roll all his saves. my tanks are destroyed by the d-cannons, wraithlord and battlesuits, and with assault rules the way they are, I can't get into combat without him getting a full round of shooting at me which is always enough to either destroy it make the unit completely useless.

Are you asking how I would beat this or how you could ? For the latter we need your army. Me personally I'm pretty sure my mech guard would Crush it

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
Are you asking how I would beat this or how you could ? For the latter we need your army. Me personally I'm pretty sure my mech guard would Crush it

I'm asking how you yourself would beat it with your army. I'm not really asking for advice, I just think that it's a really well-written list and am curious to see how other people would deal with it.

HQ-
CCS -x3 Plasma Guns, Astropath , Master of Ordanance , Officer of the Fleet -185

chimera - 55


TROOPS -

( 3 Squads ) Veterans , - x2 Plasma Guns -100
( 3 Chimeras ) Chimera - 55

( 2 Squads , riding shotgun in Valks ) Veterans , x3 Melta guns , Demolitions doctirne -130


Kasrkin Stormtroopers - x2 Plasma Guns -195 ( not super effective but i always find a use for them and i like them )

Leman Russ Battle Tank -150

Leman Russ Battle tank - 150

Manticore

Fast Attack -

(2 not squadroned ) Valkyries with Multiple Rocket pods - 130

I think i have about 80ish points left to spend , but i have a feeling this would do pretty well

Which squads is he putting Eldrad and the farseer in? They seem awful vulnerable to me.

What army do you play?

Also, that list isn't very good. Bring troops in transports and a little bit of long-range killing power to take down those artillery pieces, and you should be fine.

His list completely lacks redundancy. That you can't pick it apart tells me that you're probably a new player who doesn't have the strongest grasp of target prioritization. What you likely need is more experience more than you need a better list.

Play tau, ignore cover. take out the pathfinders for simple first blood. Proceed to target priority to victory.

He is using some units that are not that good, and combinations that are downright bad.

Guardians with EML aren't good to spend points on. Fire Dragons with no delivery system? Ouch.

His list seems to shoot a lot with a couple minor tricks that aren't coordinated in any way.

You could easily handle it, I imagine, with deepstriking units. As he has little mobility. Also, fast Assault untis will destroy this list.

2000k list, so double FoC?

Start with 6 helldrakes. Add troops and an HQ as necessary to fill out the rest of the points.

I play dark angels.
He puts the farseer with the reapers and places them in a building. He uses divination to make sure his shots ignore cover. Eldrad is put with the guardians. I think they're there just to fulfill the 2 troops minimum force org. The fire dragons stay behind the aegis line. He uses the fire dragon exarch to operate the quad-gun. That way it's BS twin-linked with tank hunter.
If I bring transports, the broadsides and wraithlord take them out. The D-cannons are pain to get rid of because they're toughness 7 and as soon as they get close enough, they really screw up my force.

I had an idea for a list though.
I plan to bring:
Azrael
company master (art. armour, PFG, and power weapon)
3 tac squads in drop pods. (meltagun/ combi-melta in each)
3 Whirlwinds
aegis line
IG CCS (4 meltas)
Infantry platoon (PCS with a 30 man infantry squad with 3 autocannons.)
3 colossus batteries

Since we usually play on boards with a ton of buildings, I plan on spamming long range barrage that he can't shoot back at. Azrael joins the squad of 30 guard and sits on an objective with a 4++ and feel no pain (granted by warlord trait) The drop pods are then going to come down and secure midfield objectives or just land in the middle of his battleline to soak up fire. the CCS has meltas to take care of the battlesuit squad that deep strikes in.

Once you kill the quad gun and reapers, his long range firepower drops to very little. Two S8 shots from the Wraithlords are very meh. Missile boadsides are limited by range and have only midling firepower. D cannons are 24" range

Really that list is not very threatening at all. He has no death star to use psychic powers, little long range shooting, little anti- assault, and relies almost entirely on his ADL. He isnt even bringing jetbikes for capping objectives. Simply rush one side of the ADL or sit back and poke him until he comes out from his wall. None of his squads are particularly besides maybe the wraithlord, and he doesnt have enough fortunes to target everything. Simply make him go 2 ground on the squads that he isnt fortuning to cut his firepower in half or less.


My corsair TAC, Eldar TAC, and DKoK TAC lists would roll that.

Eldrad
Yriel
Baron

2x 10 Harlequins, kisses, 1 fusion pistol

5x 3 guardian jetbikes with cannons
5 man wych squad w haywire and venom

2x nightwing

2x warp hunter

 ironhammer2194 wrote:
So one of my fellow wargamers plays eldar with tau allies and completely destroys me every time. Granted, I've only played casual lists against him but I can't really think of a way to beat it.

He brings in a 2000 point list.

Eldrad
Farseer with divination
5 reapers
gaurdian squad with EML
aegis line with quad gun
5 pathfinders
6 fire dragons
3 D cannons
Wraithlord with brightlance and EML
2 missile broadsides
10-15 fire warriors (I don't remember how many)
and a tau commander with 3 body guard (almost every upgrade imaginable on them)

How would you take on this army? I can't try out-shoot because his seems to always ignore armor and cover while getting to re-roll all his saves. my tanks are destroyed by the d-cannons, wraithlord and battlesuits, and with assault rules the way they are, I can't get into combat without him getting a full round of shooting at me which is always enough to either destroy it make the unit completely useless.

With Dark Angles with Guard Allies you should have no trouble. Bring the guard artillery that ignores cover and it will be devastating to most of his army. Also you can use belial to deep strike a terminator squad to his backfield, and if you are tailoring your list to beat him, use his precision strike to bring down two terminators with heavy flamers behind his ADL and vaporized units (I actually use this tactics with Flamers with my deamon army, but it is more hit or miss as I can't deep strike with precision) . You could also bring a hell hound or two. Finally, you can bring scouts to shoot and rend the WL or the T7 guns. My eldar hate hate hate deep strinking flame weapons.

simple answer to your problem is 3 deathstrike missile launchers

Honestly you can just stay outside 36" and pummel him with your ranged weapons. That list has no ability to close and very minimal range threat. Any list with a decent amount of 48" weapons would pound this into the ground without any thought or effort.

The whirlwinds are a decent choice but somewhat mediocre against eldar. You may want to rethink them in favor of something with AP4 as that is the save for the majority of his army. Also you are already kind of geared toward horde armies while you are very light on higher AP weapons. How are you currently dealing with Sv2+ enemies?

The IG blobb can provide bubble wrapping by deploying around them at max coherency. His suits can come in and kill some IG grunts and die horribly next turn.

Not sure why you are taking Azreal but not any deathwing or ravenwing troops. He is a huge points sink without unlocking those options.

Do you have terminators or bikers? Either of these options would be great to close quickly and much more devastating to his "gunline".

If you keep the drop pods you need to drop the pods so he has to kill the pod with his interceptor shots. You need to figure out what is the real threats to your army. Right now the only forces he can really threaten are the PA drop pod forces which are threatened by the reapers, fire dragons, D-cannon, suits, and wraithlord (due to being small squads). The colossus can deal with the fire dragons or reapers turn 1. You might be able to negate the fire dragons or reapers with all three of your whirlwinds but it is inefficient. The 2 turn 1 drop pods may be able to remove the D-cannons if you can land in such a way as to remove the warlock.

Azreal in a blobb can be good but why take a company master? He is a complete waste of points. Take a PFG libby instead of the company master and you can prescience the barrage weapons to ensure hits.

You should also max out the blobb with 50 and change to lascannons so you maximize the benefits of Azreal's 4++. If you do not maximize his benefits then his price tag will destroy your list.

BTW if you take the libby and the colossus 3x you will win. You should be able to wipe one of his troops per turn so you have a very good chance of winning on objectives by turn 3 with this combination alone.

clively wrote:
2000k list, so double FoC?

Start with 6 helldrakes. Add troops and an HQ as necessary to fill out the rest of the points.

Don't forget a double IG allies detachment, match your helldrake count in Valkyries.

The only major threat in that list is the Tau component given your range. If is really running 3 bodyguards and not just 3 elite XV8s then you are facing Farsight. That makes this the biggest threat to your list since he has scatter free Deep Strike.

The Whirlwinds should just eat the Pathfinders, Firewarriors and Collususs Batteries should start on the Dcannons and Broadsides. You need Azeral and the Company master to hammer down Farsight. You should have better saves and I think they can only get one attack that can bybass a 2+

@ansacs
Thanks for the advice. I'm taking Azrael to give the guardsmen a 4++. You can't make a squad of 50 guardsmen, the codex allows for a max squad size of 30. I don't want to bring a librarian because runes of warding making him less than useless. The commander is meant to man the quadgun having a 2+ 4++. I think I'll switch him out for a tech marine though.

 ironhammer2194 wrote:
@ansacs
Thanks for the advice. I'm taking Azrael to give the guardsmen a 4++. You can't make a squad of 50 guardsmen, the codex allows for a max squad size of 30. I don't want to bring a librarian because runes of warding making him less than useless. The commander is meant to man the quadgun having a 2+ 4++. I think I'll switch him out for a tech marine though.

Uh, did you know I play IG? You can take 5 IS per platoon and combine them into a squad of 50. I have no idea where you are getting a max squad size of 30 for anything in the codex?

The libby is super useful once the farseer is dead. Even on 3d6 take the highest he will pass more psychic tests than he fails, it just goes from 83% chance to pass to a ~60%.

Just use the PCS leader. He has BS 4 which is plenty on a quaddgun and if he removes 5 bodies behind and aegis you still have your blobb. This will free you a ton of points.

@$&# it! i hate it when I misread rules! you're right about the combined squad. however, I can't fit 50 into 2000 point so ill keep the 30 man squad i have.
Also, it's really hard taking out eldrad and the farseer so the librarian is useless for most of the game. They have refilling invuln saves plus look out sir which means you need to basically destroy the squad in order to get to them. I'd say it'll be at least 3 turns before you get rid of them both which is plenty of time for the battlesuits to drop down and kill my librarian. I've decided to swap out the company commander for a tech marine and use the extra points upgrading my auto cannons to lascannons and give them plasma guns.

You are already going after the reapers and fire dragons though? Where is he putting these farseers?

I still highly recommend the libby but the techmarine is not a terrible choice as he can remaip the whirlwinds if something happens.

Don't forget an infravisor so you can have nightvision on your entire blobb if you attach the libby/techmarine to it.

 ironhammer2194 wrote:
So one of my fellow wargamers plays eldar with tau allies and completely destroys me every time. Granted, I've only played casual lists against him but I can't really think of a way to beat it.

He brings in a 2000 point list.

Eldrad
Farseer with divination
5 reapers
gaurdian squad with EML
aegis line with quad gun
5 pathfinders
6 fire dragons
3 D cannons
Wraithlord with brightlance and EML
2 missile broadsides
10-15 fire warriors (I don't remember how many)
and a tau commander with 3 body guard (almost every upgrade imaginable on them)

How would you take on this army? I can't try out-shoot because his seems to always ignore armor and cover while getting to re-roll all his saves. my tanks are destroyed by the d-cannons, wraithlord and battlesuits, and with assault rules the way they are, I can't get into combat without him getting a full round of shooting at me which is always enough to either destroy it make the unit completely useless.

Hmm... VERY stagnant army. Does he EVER reach objectives with it? It seems like this army would get demolished by artillery... ironic, I know. But the Tau artillery here is only 24" to 36" and is by and large his primary threat. So you really can outdistance it quite a bit with IG artillery and others. 3 Whirlwinds or just Thunderfire Cannons (or a combo) detonating the Reapers and D-Cannons from afar would seem a good idea.

Reapers would be the first priority, with Fire Warriors right behind them probably. Kill his ability to score, and use copious use of reserves to give his guns less time to affect you. Fire every thing you can at those two things from as far away as you can.

With MY army, which is outflanktastic, I would take away cover saves with Markerdrones at 36", then jump them back out of his range. Then i would give my (now) BS 8 Riptides their targets at STR 8, AP 2 large blasts, plus 16 Ripple firing missiles. theni would jump back out of range also. I would kill every last Fire Warrior I could see this way. The rest of the army would concentrate on the Reapers. Outflankers in particular would show up and cut them to ribbons. Kroot spread out hardly care about small blasts (though they will likly gt pinned down by them after they show up).

I don't think this list could take my Tau. The list is annoyingly resilient, but very limited if YOU have him outranged which is kinda what might happen here.