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Hey dakka, my latest list, incorporating the experience of my last game.

Grot Bomm Artillery ~ 175
-Two units of Grot Bomm Launchas, one with 3x and one with 2x vehicles
One unit will fire on turn one, and then zoom ahead of my Trukks to give them cover

The Big Guns ~ 368
-3x Lobbas, 3 Ammo Runts
-3x Kannon, 3 Ammo Runts
-Aegis Defense Line, Lascannon
-Big Trakk with Supa Kannon, 'ard case
-12x Lootas

Speedy Flanker/Harassment ~ 315
5x Deffkoptas, no upgrades
1x Bikerboss, Klaw, Cybork, Bosspole
Da Boss fixes the Deffkoptas leadership issues, at which point they actually become quite dangerous

Da Boyz Trukks ~ 351
-12x Shoota boy, Big Shoota
-Trukk w/ Big Shoota, Reinforced Ram
-x3 units

Da Flyboys ~ 260
-2x Jets w/ Extra Gun, Flyboss
As much because of pie plate spam as of flier spam

Edit: I'm seriously considering Stormboys with Zagstruk. Please talk me out of it, I don't want to be hurt again ;_;

I don't know something about dropping out of the sky and diving into CC sounds pretty awesome. They are not a commonly used unit with most ork players I know. They are pretty mobile but you do have a chance to lose a boy now and then.

I run Stormboyz and I personally prefer a Nob. For the point difference, I can run a couple more stormboyz or more sluggaz.

Also, losing D3 boyz due to deepstriking hurts. My stormboyz are precious and I need every last one of them come late game where they excel.

As for Zagstuk himself, I'm pretty sure that he only gets to strike at his initiative if HE assaults.Typically,SM have the same initiative, so you would still be hitting at the same time. If he is assaulted, it reverts back to normal PK rules...

Having said all that though, he is a fantastic looking model and would look great on the table top. Deepstiking then charging Termies would be a lot of fun. (I love CC )

My main opponents are IG and various vehicles, so I'm not too fussed about INT. (Edit: Also theres a fair bit of Dark Eldar, but they strike first no matter what against Orks...)

There is, however, a crapload of pie plates in my meta. I don't imagine the Stormboys, being so expensive and fragile and possessing not even the slightest defense against pieplateatanytimeanywhere are going to last long without the deep strike

Also, cheers for replying. I give tons of advice on here but often nobody returns the favour. Makes me want to, like, stop helping people out

I got the Zagstrukk model and converted it into a regualar Nob with PK and BP. I like them starting on the table and swooping in when the time is right. I've seen a guy run a small minium sized squad with Zag in it designed to pop Indirect weapons and tanks. It was quite effective and a lot of points for what it did. Zag is worth it though just for the coolness factor.

Who's shooting the lascannon? A loota?

Anyway, a few things Im not so sold on are the grot bombs, kannon trakky thing and shoota trukks.

The grot bombs are AV10 2HP and a FA choice right? The one shot for 35pts is reasonable as well as the 24-72" barrage range. But the problem I see is that they are all one unit and so have to fire at the same thing. If each could fire at its own target they'd be so much better. So you'll end up dropping a mess of shots at one target so overall between the 2 units of them you have, thats just 2 targets.
One kannon trakk isn't that big of a threat as it would be easy to shoot off and it cant hide out of LOS since it has to direct fire. If I was versing this with marines, I'd have 1 pred lined up for the big trakk, and the other 2 on either grot bombs or shoota trukks.
I still feel that straight shootas on trukks aren't that good. There is too few to have decent effect and with no bosspole in a small unit Ld could be an issue. Generally I think that in trukks, you want to have a klaw nob or at least a big choppa so you can work with some fast high strength attacks. Then of course there's the fact that you have 3 small troops squads in 1500pts.

You're heavy support selection looks like a more gunline style. But you have a few rushing trukks and some outflanking deffkoptas. As the outflankers arrive on their own accord, its fine to keep them in but I fail to see the purpose of the trukks. I'd think of loosing the trukks and getting straight shoota blobs, loosing the kannons and 1 grot bomb for another big trakk.
Also to take stormboys would cut out a lot of other stuff, so I dont think they would work in here so well.

 Dakkamite wrote:
My main opponents are IG and various vehicles, so I'm not too fussed about INT. (Edit: Also theres a fair bit of Dark Eldar, but they strike first no matter what against Orks...)

Also, cheers for replying. I give tons of advice on here but often nobody returns the favour. Makes me want to, like, stop helping people out

No worries mate. I've only just gotten back into the hobby and find your posts very informative, so thank you!

Some of your proposed lists I have no idea about (flyers etc) since I have been away for so long, but happy to help out where I can and share my experience

I'm sure you are much more experienced playing orks than me but no matter how I try to look at it I don't really see the point of that really expensive deffkopta unit. Sure the bikerboss fixes their ld but at 140p thats quite hefty for just that. And even with TL thats still only 18 shots that won't penetrate normal SM armor. I just can't see what 5 deffkoptas and a bikerboss can do that couldn't be done by 2x 10 lootas (at 300p). I'd suggest that you at least put some buzzsaws in there to make them more of a CC threat. Might be effective against vehicles and 2+ armor.

The problem is your comparing apples and oranges, or taking a knife to a firing range and wondering why it sucks.

The Lootas are indeed a bit shootier, but they're lacking severely in movement, assault, and durability. They cannot hurt AV 14 *period* because they'll never get anything but front shots on it. Nor can they do anything to barrage weapons that hide out of sight, or anything with a range of 49+, and they can't hit anything at the back of the field (ie, minimum strength objective holders) like Deffkoptas can. They'll draw pie plates like mad and die in droves, taking hundreds of points along with them. Finally, and this is the main one for me, everyone takes them, so I'd like to avoid them if at all possible.

Deffkoptas are tough as nails (T5,4+/4+ cover), very shooty against the right targets (rear armour 10, light infantry), and though they don't penetrate marine armour, neither does anything else really. They can also hurt AV 14, long range and barrage weapons by virtue of their movement and their boss. Most of all, they're able to outflank a Bikerboss safely behind enermy lines, and surround him with a blob of 10 additional high T auto cover save wounds so that he stays alive long enough to do his job ~ popping tanks and stuff. The rest is just gravy.

So pretty much, Lootas are artillery, Deffkoptas are a bodyguard unit with a bunch of auxilliary uses, which happen to include alot of things that Lootas aren't so great at. Its not fair to compare them only on the strength of their shooting, especially because no good player is going to put anything decent in a Lootas sights if they don't have to.

As for the buzzsaws, they would be great if Deffkoptas weren't S3. Even so, the Dread Mob Koptas get them for just 10 points. I'd pay ten points for them but never twenty five. Sadly, the above list isn't Dread Mob, though I'm thinking of changing it around and I could make that happen if it needs to...

Edit: Here is what I'm considering for an updated list.

Dropping; Supa Kannon Trakk, Lascannon from Aegis, Boyz Trukks, Dakkajets, 2x Grot Bomms
=716pts

Adding: Aegis Quadgun, 3x Kannon+Runts, and either a single deffkopta (TL Rokkit) + Bikerboss and 68 boys, or another Deffkopta/Bikerboss squad and 47 boys.

Also on the chopping block: Trading 12 Lootas for 30 boys, the idea being that one unit of Lootas will just die, you gotta run two or not bother

I don't know it's something different and unexpected, plus you can always add the rokkits, even with terrible BS has potential for serious nasty. I agree a Buzsaw would help out but the unit is crazy expensive.

I might give this a try with a smaller set of Deff Koptas or a possible Wazdakka combination of some kind. Never hurts to play test.

Too bad you can't do a Mek with both bike and KFF, that might be worth exploring

Both Rokkit and Big Shoota koptas are worth considering, but I'd never use the buzzsaw at its Codex: Orks price. The Rokkits would be a 33% price hike, and I reckon it makes the Koptas worse overall at AV10 hunting, but an average of 3-4 S8 hits per turn can put some serious, if unreliable, damage onto slightly heavier armour

The Koptas already get a cover save I believe, so its like they have a KFF built in. Either an exhaust fumes save like the bikers or something for being a jetbike, can't remember the specifics.

The cheapest option is to bring in just one Kopta and use it purely to insert a Bikerboss behind enermy lines. It's like a Snikrot but only 35 points. With a rokkit upgrade to 45 points you've got something that can be really annoying and force the other guy to divert his shooting at it.

1500 points lots of pie plates ..hrmmn ..
Take both Dakkjets as Bommers and the Koptas as TL Big Shoota ..
That covers your three Fast Slots

ADL and Icarus not needed...nor is the kannon group ..

No ADL and no Icarus then you need lootas combine them with a Mega armoured Mek/BP/Cyb so they can walk and fire .. and it cures their leadership issues quick ..

Lobbas ..mabey

Better to have 3 bw's full of shootas will rock across the feild and take out those danged pie plate tossers