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I'm weathering my marines with powder made from sanding dry pastels. Before sealing I was really happy with the look and felt good about the way the model looked. I should mention I usually seal with a layer of glosscote followed by a layer of dullcote afterwards. I had two models I was using as test subjects and both were weathered a bit differently. On one I had moistened my brush before and during the weathering and it gave the effect of caked on mud (darker brown pastel). The other model I used a dry brush and just gave a dusting. When I put on the glosscote both models lost most if not all of the effect. The caked on model the mud got considerably darker and at the edges where it was lighter it all but vanished. The dusted model lost everything but the powder in the deep foot crevices. Now the darkening I guess I understand and I may just have to live with if I go that route. But is there anything else I can do? I tried google and of course come up with all sorts of posts about different weathing powders and sealing but none regarding the dry pastels method so I don't know if they will apply, not to mention none of them really have a fix that I can find.

So....anybody have any experience with this?

With pigments I would think the only way you could seal it without screwing it up is with an airbrush or spray varnish. Trying to take a brush back over pigment just seems like it would move the pigment around again.

Sorry, should have mentioned, the gloss/dullcote was from a spray can.

wikkedj wrote:
Sorry, should have mentioned, the gloss/dullcote was from a spray can.

Oh.... well I have nothing to offer then.

I believe that no matter what you do, the coloring will change. I saw a guide comparing several sealing methods once, and there wasn't a single option that didn't change the coloring.

My plan when I start on the Dream forge IG force is sealing after paint, with glosscote/dullcote/hairspray/whatever pre weathering. Then either letting the powder sit there, or trying the heavy in a very thin mix of white glue.

I've had success with it. I apply the powders with 90% isopropal alcohol (rubbing alcohol). when the alcohol evaporates the powders are "set" enough to coat. I use a dull coat from about t 12-15in away to start, once dry I hit it again from a bit closer. Then a gloss coat, and another dull coat.

Its probably overkill but it has worked for me.

Hope that helps.

 darefsky wrote:
I've had success with it. I apply the powders with 90% isopropal alcohol (rubbing alcohol). when the alcohol evaporates the powders are "set" enough to coat. I use a dull coat from about t 12-15in away to start, once dry I hit it again from a bit closer. Then a gloss coat, and another dull coat.

Its probably overkill but it has worked for me.

Hope that helps.

I have a couple more test minis laying around and I'll try that soon, thanks for the feedback!

You need to set the powders onto the model first, and then varnish over it. That said even setting the pigments will cause you to lose some.

I personally use MIG pigment fixer, but White spirits or isopropyl alcohol will work relatively the same.

When you do varnish it, even after fixing, make sure you spray from a decent distance away elsewise you run the risk of blowing some of the pigments away with the force of the aerosols.

Don't varnish anything as you need a pigment fixer. MIG produces one and I know secret weapon will be soon. You place the powders on then put drops of the fixer on them. Ounces that's done you can spray away and they won't change at all.

Also bear in mind that varnish tends to dull pigment effects - even perfectly fixed ones - somewhat. Some people intentionally go a bit heavy on their pigment weathering, knowing that the final sealing coat is going to dial the effect back down to where they actually want it.

Personally, I do all of my usual varnishing before I even reach for the powders (I use both dedicated products and powdered pastel chalk; the treatment is the same) - were I not weathering them, they'd be ready for the tabletop. I use plain old rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl) to set the pigments, then give a light dusting of Dullcote to help seal them. The pigments aren't quite as well protected as the paint, this way, but they're far more visibly affected by heavy varnish - I find this to be a rather comfortable middle ground between protection and aesthetics.

I use hair spray personally.

It affixes the pigments in place and doesn't really alter the coloration.
I apply pigments after I've varnished the models however, so I get the best balance between protection and the rest.

I use testors clear flat acryl through my airbrush.

When I've used them, I've done all other weathering, so the model has 1 or 2 coats of Future, and then one of Dulcote so the powders have something toothy to stick to. The first time I used no fixative, so even with heavy coats of varnish lost quite a bit. Having gone fairly heavy on the powder knowing I'd lose some, I didn't notice a severe diminishing or change in color. Though now, a few months/games later, I've noticed the tracks on my rhino, while still slightly oxidized and all that, have quite a bit of metal showing underneath that wasn't previously. Though it seems to have reached a stopping point. Next time I'll use a darker paint on the tracks, as well as graphite then pigment powders so they'll maintain a darker, used look even after a loss of pigment powders. I wonder if there'd be a difference in how the pigments were affected between satin or matte.

I've been meaning to try this out myself, as money is tight, and so real weathering powders are something I'l have to wait till theres money in the pot for, but I do already own a set or two of pastel colours which I could grind down into dust.

The guys out there suggesting alcohol, and pigment fixer from the pigment companies, have you tryed these 'real' pigment weathering methods with home made pastel pigments?
I ask because I can imagine the chemistry of the pigment powder to be different to the chalk pastels which must contain a binder of some sort.
Is the working method the exact same? or should we do something different when using pastels?

With regards to the OP I've no experience in this, but what the other suggest in varnishing with a gloss coat before pigment weathering seems sensible.

Working method is theoretically the same, HairySticks, but pastel powders have a few quirks which must be accounted for. First main difference is grain size. Unless you're incredibly thorough in grinding the stuff, chalk dust isn't going to be as fine a powder as dedicated weathering pigments ground in an industrial mill. You can make mud, rust washes, etc. just fine, but the subtle, blended dust effects aren't quite as natural, in my (less than exhaustive) experience. The other major factor is the binder (most commonly carnuba wax, I'm told). When I grind my pastels, the powder seems far more prone to clumping than weathering pigments, almost as if the dust was statically charged. It's not as if it forms solid chunks that need to be broken back up, but it does make the powder harder to control. Again, applying it wet circumvents the issue, but when you want to just dust a surface lightly and evenly, it can be a bit of a struggle.

Mind you, I'm far from an expert and my pastels aren't exactly the highest quality available, but that's been my experience, so far. Being that I've yet to have any nasty reactions with binders or fixers (have used matte and gloss mediums, water, 70% isopropyl alcohol, and varnished over them with both acrylic and lacquer matte coats), there's little harm in playing around with them a bit, at least. If you varnish first, you can always wash them off without ruining anything or having to do up a test model. Personally, I've relegated them to mixed and wet applications, but you may have better luck with better chalks.