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Hey there, I'm building a 1000 pt Ork list to krump some 'eads in a campaign at my LFGS. We're starting with just 1000 pts and then progressing to higher point levels. For now though, I had this in mind-

HQ
Warboss w/ PK, Attack Squig, Bosspole, cybork, ‘eavy armor

TROOPS
Shoota Boyz x20
Shoota Boyz x20
Slugga Boyz x20

ELITES
Meganobz x3 w/ Shoot/Skorcha kombi
Meganobz x3 w/ Shoot/Skorcha kombi

HEAVY SUPPORT
Big Gunz (Kannon) x3
Big Gunz (Kannon) x3
Looted Wagon x1 w/ Boomgun, Reinforced Ram, ‘ard case

Should come out to 1000 sharp. What I had in mind was that the Boyz + Warboss would lead the charge with the Meganobz lumbering behind to give the charge a 1-2 punch. Then, to soften up the opposition and/or armor targets, the Kannons and Looted Wagon were going to pump out higher strength shots and templates.

What do you lads think? Advice and criticism is most welcome!

Tbh, the MANz are so slow and so rubbish at range that I reckon they're pretty crap without a transport.

Usually I'm loathe to recommend a forcefield Mek, but in this case, with 2+ and no ++ save, you'll want *something* to ensure those MANz stay alive.

Alternatively, a fat unit of Gretchin running ahead of your boys to give them 4+ cover or eat bullets for them is a great choice and fits with what I believe your theme of the list is.

This looks like a Green Tide list, no? Respect where respect is due for taking the Orkiest list of them all, but honestly, make sure you know what your in for at higher points levels ~ namely, moving 180 boys to/from the game, between games (at a tourney or whatever), and on the battlefield itself. Its a logistical nightmare and its not for everyone.

MANz are alright on foot, There no where near as bad as they were in last edition with the slow an purposeful rules changing. For the most part the shoota boys wont be running since they be... well shooting. So have a unit of MANZ roll with each of them and just wrap the shoota boys around them. Note intervening models give a 5+ save...
I would not advise taking the looted wagon, mostly through virtue of it being alone. With whats left over, I would either get another kannon battery or some nobs in the boys units. My preference would be to get a nob, a klaw isn't entirely necessary due to the presence of the MANz so I would probably stick them with a bosspole and big choppa. You'll probably find that without the nobs high strength attacks, the affect of the boys units will be greatly hindered. In many cases, the high strength attacks are the only ones causing the real damage. So 3 20pt nobs or 3 20pt kannons your call. I would also get some big shootas in the shoota boys units. Note the nob can carry one. Other than that it looks good.
If you are doing it as part of a progression campaign, you may also want to give some consideration for where you will grow. If you go with the nobs, what I'd look to get in expanding is another kannon battery, a lootas unit and the whatever is left on more boys.

edit; huh never bother to add it up before, but adding the 3 nobs and 3 kannons will be the same cost as the looted wagon. So I'd do both.

As noted before I think you should consider getting at least something to protect your boys as they are advancing. Transports, kustom force fields, walkerwall it's all up to you but you need some sort of protection or you will not live long enough to deal your damage. Also if you want to go for looted wagons I'd consider getting a full 3 or at least 2 of them as they are likely to miss quite alot and the same goes for kannons. They are well worth the points at 60pts for three of them at BS3 but get a full three if you're gonna field them or you will simply not have enough shots to deal any significant damage.

Also why take a ram for the looted wagon with a boomgun?

Thank you all for the input!

Dakkamite wrote:Tbh, the MANz are so slow and so rubbish at range that I reckon they're pretty crap without a transport.

Usually I'm loathe to recommend a forcefield Mek, but in this case, with 2+ and no ++ save, you'll want *something* to ensure those MANz stay alive.

Alternatively, a fat unit of Gretchin running ahead of your boys to give them 4+ cover or eat bullets for them is a great choice and fits with what I believe your theme of the list is.

This looks like a Green Tide list, no? Respect where respect is due for taking the Orkiest list of them all, but honestly, make sure you know what your in for at higher points levels ~ namely, moving 180 boys to/from the game, between games (at a tourney or whatever), and on the battlefield itself. Its a logistical nightmare and its not for everyone.

Ah I knew the speed thing would come up with the MANz, but I figured the same as rahxephon. The Shoota boyz will hopefully be shooting more than running!
The KFF is a great idea, I could modify it to include him or swap out the boss for him. And I will admit, I do sorta fancy a Green Tide sort of army, but you are right in that it's just too many boyz. I was hoping to devise a hybrid mech/tide list. However, the BW/Trukk spam just doesn't appeal too well to me even though it's among the most competitive lists.

rahxephon wrote:MANz are alright on foot, There no where near as bad as they were in last edition with the slow an purposeful rules changing. For the most part the shoota boys wont be running since they be... well shooting. So have a unit of MANZ roll with each of them and just wrap the shoota boys around them. Note intervening models give a 5+ save...
I would not advise taking the looted wagon, mostly through virtue of it being alone. With whats left over, I would either get another kannon battery or some nobs in the boys units. My preference would be to get a nob, a klaw isn't entirely necessary due to the presence of the MANz so I would probably stick them with a bosspole and big choppa. You'll probably find that without the nobs high strength attacks, the affect of the boys units will be greatly hindered. In many cases, the high strength attacks are the only ones causing the real damage. So 3 20pt nobs or 3 20pt kannons your call. I would also get some big shootas in the shoota boys units. Note the nob can carry one. Other than that it looks good.
If you are doing it as part of a progression campaign, you may also want to give some consideration for where you will grow. If you go with the nobs, what I'd look to get in expanding is another kannon battery, a lootas unit and the whatever is left on more boys.

edit; huh never bother to add it up before, but adding the 3 nobs and 3 kannons will be the same cost as the looted wagon. So I'd do both.

Bubble wrapping them isn't a bad idea, I like that! I sorta shirked from the nobs purely because of challenge reasoning. They seem to get eaten alive. I can't say I have any personal experience with a looted wagon, though out of curiosity and batreps I have one I will be working on that I'd love to use. I suppose I'll just have to cook up another...

I'll certainly look into the possibility of more kannons and nobs and see how the list looks and performs! As far as progression I do have some Lootas, a BW, few Kans, a dakkajet, and a squad of Nobs that I can use for the slightly higher point levels!

BobZoid wrote:As noted before I think you should consider getting at least something to protect your boys as they are advancing. Transports, kustom force fields, walkerwall it's all up to you but you need some sort of protection or you will not live long enough to deal your damage. Also if you want to go for looted wagons I'd consider getting a full 3 or at least 2 of them as they are likely to miss quite alot and the same goes for kannons. They are well worth the points at 60pts for three of them at BS3 but get a full three if you're gonna field them or you will simply not have enough shots to deal any significant damage.

Also why take a ram for the looted wagon with a boomgun?

I agree wholeheartedly with the protection and I am thinking KFF will fit in nicely. I was wanting to do a Kan Wall, but I've heard they are quite vulnerable with the new HP system for vehicles. I will look into perhaps getting another set of Kannons or more Looted wagons.

Well killa kans are still fairly cheap and grotzookas can create some havoc in infantry squads. And even with WS2 dreadnaught close combat wepons will destroy pretty much any vehicle and most infantry you come across.

 Odengrim Mekstuf wrote:

Ah I knew the speed thing would come up with the MANz, but I figured the same as rahxephon. The Shoota boyz will hopefully be shooting more than running!
The KFF is a great idea, I could modify it to include him or swap out the boss for him. And I will admit, I do sorta fancy a Green Tide sort of army, but you are right in that it's just too many boyz. I was hoping to devise a hybrid mech/tide list. However, the BW/Trukk spam just doesn't appeal too well to me even though it's among the most competitive lists.

Out of interest, why not? I think they're amazing ~ simply because a) needs less boys so less hassle and b) highly mobile armies are the ones that require the most thought to play (gunlines being the least).

Also, with all the Kannon suggestions, why is noone saying Lobbas? They're fantastic for their price. They can simply melt light troops on objectives or cut down the amount of flashlights melting your boys before the charge, and put the hurt on landspeeders and other side AV 10 as well. And in 6th, I'd say some barrage weapons in your list are compulsary.

Another option to consider is to ally in Dread Mob and take Burna Mekboys for your shoota mobs. Costs 5pts more and no bosspole, however, burnas > big choppas in alot of ways. Just another option for the table.

Finally, I see I didn't mention Grot Bomms? A one shot S8 AP3 re-roll to hit pie plate for 35 points in squads of 1-3. Fire the bombs, and then zoom ahead of your boys to give 5+ for 'shooting through a unit' or straight up cover from blocked LoS. I love these things, they can zoom about blocking movement and such, and because they're so damn useless after firing the bomb its a huge waste for the enermy to shoot at them!

I actually swing the direction of saying that horde lists would be one of the more competitive. In a pure horde, its not too hard to have over 100 models in 1000pts. Not many armies would be able to deal with that many guys. Ork vehicles aren't that durable, trukks and looted wagons can be dealt to with no great difficulty by many anti infantry weapons. Then the battlewagons, whilst 14 at the front, have very long AV12 sides. As far as walkers go... probably wouldn't really bother with them. One of my favoured 1k lists is a KFF mek, 40 sluggas, 60 shoota, 3 kannons and 3 zzap guns (just for the lols). It works well against most things other than fliers, but then orks often struggle with fliers. Admittedly, I only play horde style under 1k, I cant be bothered at higher points levels. It does take a while...

^ and the rams really only ever take for terrain rerolls...

Yeah I think Green tide is the most competitive Ork build. If you really want to run it, ally in dread mob for an additional 40 boys and another KFF Mek or whatevs.

Its just, Orks are meant to be fun. And Green Tide is not fun. Its not fun at all. I'd only run it at high points with a house rule of "each boy counts as two boys" or something so I can put less models on the board. Or if I had an assistant or something...

lol an assistant, that actually made me laugh. Though sometimes even at 1k, I've had people offer to help move stuff. At first I was like sure cheers, and then they promptly break one so now I'm like



Also I don't get why people have such a problem with challenges. Say for example you take the charge, he's got a marine power sword sergeant (who does that anyway...). His 4 attacks, 2 should hit and one should wound. You've still got a wound left and when you come around with you're klaw, hitting 1.5 times and thats a pretty certain 1W that instant deaths a lot. If he's got a power axe or something, you'll both be striking together so everyone will probably die. If its against a character or something, then its not unfair for him to die really. Points comparison wise a PK nob with a bosspole is 46pts and a power weapon sergeant is 36pts IIRC. So the nob costs more but he wrecks a lot of face, a sword sucks against vehicles.
Plus if you're a little bit of a tfg, just milk the initiative pile in steps. Charge in but leave the klaw nob at the back out of combat more that 2" away. Then the enemy cant challenge you and you just choose not to issue a challenge yourself. After your I2 boys have done something, at your I1 step pile the nob in 2" into combat so now he wrecks face.

Out of interest, why not? I think they're amazing ~ simply because a) needs less boys so less hassle and b) highly mobile armies are the ones that require the most thought to play (gunlines being the least).

Also, with all the Kannon suggestions, why is noone saying Lobbas? They're fantastic for their price. They can simply melt light troops on objectives or cut down the amount of flashlights melting your boys before the charge, and put the hurt on landspeeders and other side AV 10 as well. And in 6th, I'd say some barrage weapons in your list are compulsary.

Another option to consider is to ally in Dread Mob and take Burna Mekboys for your shoota mobs. Costs 5pts more and no bosspole, however, burnas > big choppas in alot of ways. Just another option for the table.

Finally, I see I didn't mention Grot Bomms? A one shot S8 AP3 re-roll to hit pie plate for 35 points in squads of 1-3. Fire the bombs, and then zoom ahead of your boys to give 5+ for 'shooting through a unit' or straight up cover from blocked LoS. I love these things, they can zoom about blocking movement and such, and because they're so damn useless after firing the bomb its a huge waste for the enermy to shoot at them!

I've seen lots of lists on here that go for Battlewagons often, and kinda wanted to see opinions on more infantry heavy Ork list. I suppose too that I imagine the battlefield with medieval/Renaissance type battles with oodles of infantry swarming with arty cannons bellowing. But then again I love tanks too and imagine a German blitzkrieg. Except with lots of Orks. Love the look of my side of the table with so many Orks that it looks like a small army versus my friends which look like a hit squad!

Ah anyways, lobbas do sound like an awesome idea, but then I lose the anti-tank element of kannons. :( Also what do you mean by ally in a Dread Mob? I really do dig walkers, though they are supposedly vulenerable. And Grot Bombs sound hilarious, but they're Forge World aren't they?

Ooo rahxephon that list sounds fun and dead killy! Interesting observation too concerning challenges. I will perhaps try nobs again and see how it rolls. I really do love the nob in there, but people wised up and started actually using challenges... It always wrecked face when it was alive.

OH I almost forgot to say that the Reinforced Ram was there for the Looted Wagon because I wasn't thinking right proppa.

Charge in but leave the klaw nob at the back out of combat more that 2" away. Then the enemy cant challenge you and you just choose not to issue a challenge yourself. After your I2 boys have done something, at your I1 step pile the nob in 2" into combat so now he wrecks face.

Yeah I knew there was some way of doing that, cheers for pointing it out.

You better believe I'm gonna milk it =P

Ah anyways, lobbas do sound like an awesome idea, but then I lose the anti-tank element of kannons.

Lobbas put a S5 hit on side armour and can hit multiple targets with one shot. They're surprisingly killy against light vehicles. I have never used a kannon before so I can't compare them very well, but I hear at least as much good stuff about kannons as I do lobbas.

Dread Mob is the forgeworld Ork Codex. It does a lot of things that the current dex gets badly wrong properly ~ for instance, most anything can take a dedicated transport, while Codex Orks cannot give their Burna Boys or Lootas jack gak (which makes no sense).

The walkers themselves are pretty crap IMO. I want them to be good because they're a scratch-builders wet dream, but sadly 6th edition loves autocannons and autocannons much walkers for breakfast.

Forgeworld is 100% 40k approved and requires homeruling to remove from the game. Don't be afraid to use it.

No, Forgeworld is not 100% 40k approved. It is experimental rules (as per on the FW site) and are effectively a house rules supplement designed to play in the 40k system. Kinda like D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder are both d20 games, but have different rules.

You give me a page number in the base rule book that says this or a link to the page on the GW 40k site that supports your stance, then your right and I will say nothing more.

Till then, understand that unless your local meta plays FW and accepts it, it is not part of the standard game. Several large conventions and Tourneys do not allow FW rules. For example, the GW Grand Tourney in 2010 strictly forbids FW rules or any lists not from a Codex (such as FW lists).

Here is a link to support this. Guess it isn't as %100 supported as you are told.

This is what Forgeworld says with regards to listing their models as "40k approved" or "Apocalypse Only".

With regards to your link;

6.0.4 Quiz (0 - 20 points )
At some moment during the tournament you will
be required to take part in a quiz. The quiz
consists of twenty multiple choice questions and
you’ll be given a total of 10 minutes to answer
these questions.
For each correct answer you give, you will receive
1 point, up to the maximum of 20.
Since the quiz can win you a total of 20
points in your Tournament Score taking the
quiz is a fairly serious affair.
Any form of illegal action will be rewarded with 0
points for the quiz. Questions can be based on
the Warhammer 40000 background or rules.
The quiz is a closed book test. This means
no (rule) books allowed in sight.

That event does not look fun. Ergo, it's opinion is invalid.

Of course it is intended to be used in 'standard' games of 40k, otherwise you would never buy something that is not in the codex. This is why they say you can not just 'suprise' someone with a FW list or army without their consent. IF it was as official as you claim, you wouldn't need to let folk know your using Forgeworld!

The other problem is that message is not on the GW site or in the base rule book. Just on the FW site, which also lists on the front page and in the download section that their rules are experimental.

Pretty much, if you play with folks that allow FW, it is fine. Apoc is FW, for example. But everyone is playing under Apoc rules at that point. The FW balance vs 'standard' games is debatable at best. Just because they tell you FW is meant to be played with 40k does not mean it is balanced against 40k. Maybe if it was, it would have been in the codex or be listed in the BRB or on the GW 40k site. And with the rash of new codexes that have been released, there are a lot of stuff that have been in FW that never made it into those Codexes. Very little has, actually. This should tell you something.

As for looking fun, your opinion is invalid. The fact is that the official Tourney for GW does not allow FW says your wrong that FW is a standard and fully accepted part of the game.

FW is part of GW, and if they say that their stuff is ok for any standard game of 40k, then its ok for any standard game of 40k ~ and theres no reason to assume that competitive play in a tournament environment does not come under the definition of standard play.

You only have to let them know out of politeness. Thats all it says up there. That because the models "may be unknown" it is "best" to ask permission.

Tournaments and players can home rule FW out of their meta if they like. The same way they could remove Special Characters, or Kill Points games, or hell, even vehicles, or Space Marines. This tournament just so happens to have decided that they did not want Forgeworld. That is 100% of what has occured here.

And with the rash of new codexes that have been released, there are a lot of stuff that have been in FW that never made it into those Codexes. Very little has, actually. This should tell you something.

It tells me that GW likes to sell twice as many books ~ a codex, and a forgeworld supplement ~ and make twice the money.

As for looking fun, your opinion is invalid.

Oh, ok then. Guess we can just like, say gak without backing it up.

In that case, "you are wrong and FW is perfectly acceptable". Guess thats the end of the discussion. Flawless victory.