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So I read the Helsreach novel and am thinking about starting a BT army. I'm a 40k novice and would be playing mostly "just for fun." My brother, who used to work for GW tells me they basically suck, aka, waste of money. I'm thinking, if they were truly THAT bad, GW would have updated them by now. Thoughts?

I'm liking their close combat style of fighting, love the color scheme, love the background/fluff, and their attitude. However, with 6th ed. being a shooty ed., I'm second guessing myself. Also, can they not field Devastators? What about jump pack use?

And since they don't like psychers, librarians are out of the question, right?

How do the BT compare to Blood Angels and Dark Angels?

Thanks

Gabbatron wrote:
So I read the Helsreach novel and am thinking about starting a BT army. I'm a 40k novice and would be playing mostly "just for fun." My brother, who used to work for GW tells me they basically suck, aka, waste of money. I'm thinking, if they were truly THAT bad, GW would have updated them by now. Thoughts?

I'm liking their close combat style of fighting, love the color scheme, love the background/fluff, and their attitude. However, with 6th ed. being a shooty ed., I'm second guessing myself. Also, can they not field Devastators? What about jump pack use?

And since they don't like psychers, librarians are out of the question, right?

How do the BT compare to Blood Angels and Dark Angels?

Thanks

GW will hopefully get to BT soon, unless they get folded into C:SM.
My mate plays them but I dont know too much. Ill help with what I can.

Yup no psykers. They are more choppy than shooty by far, an as 6th favours shooty, they are tough to learn with. Also they have to take an Emperors Champion in games above 750pts, and he can be expensive, though he does buff your entire army in lovely ways. But those buffs can lead to your units being forcred to move out of position. You basically run angrily at enemies who shoot you with one of the special rules you can take with the Champ.

Jump Packs still work with them. Stick a Jump Pack Chaplain with them for added fun times.

Dunno about devastators,but I think you can take a heavy and a special weapon (or two of one of those) in 5 man squads. I think!

Also you dont have scout squads. Your scouts (Neophytes) are integrated into your Tac Squads (Initiates) so you can have 20 man troop squads (10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes) as you can take a Neophyte for every Initiate you have.

DA are much easier to use, and much more effective atm as they have a new codex for 6th, and are more shooty by far.

Check this out for a wealth of info and tactics for BT: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Black_Templar

They are on the weak side on the power scale, but if you really like them it couldn't hurt to buy and paint up templar models and use them as C:SM until the future of BT is more clear.

Lots of speculation is going round that they will be folded into the main Space Marine codex. They might just have a small section in there.

As another poster said, if you like the models/back story enough just go for it and treat them as SM. Just try to keep it close to the spirit of the BT army I suppose (assault marines, assault terminators, some scouts to represent your neophytes etc). That's what I'm working towards at the moment.

BT don't use devastators, nor do they use librarians.

They also are not a weak book. It is a challenging one, but few other SM codexes allow normal troops to take Land Raiders as transports. They also get combined squads of Marines and scouts.

It's your time, effort and money that goes into an army. So, what's it worth to you? Does the level of tabletop competitiveness mean more to you than all the other aspects of the hobby, or not?

 Texanity wrote:
They are on the weak side on the power scale, but if you really like them it couldn't hurt to buy and paint up templar models and use them as C:SM until the future of BT is more clear.

That`s what I do.

If you love the Templars (as I do), take them and use the C:SM rules while they don`t get their own update.

You should pick an army that you enjoy, not one that is going to win you battles. The hobby side of this game is where you`re going to spend most of your time - not playing, but assembling minis, painting them and reading their fluff.

Or use the BT codex and be challenged.

I studied the black templar codex pretty well for the past year and played games with them on vassal.

They are tougher to play, but still have some really cool options.

They are awesome in close combat and since they can take neophytes (scouts) with the initiates you can run squads of 10 space marines with 10 initiates across the board. With the chaplain with that group and 3 servitors every time a scout dies you get to consolidate toward the nearest enemy d6+3" talk about running across the board.

Other great advantages are the cheap typhoon speeders at 70 pts. and being able to put two missile launchers on their termies.

Oddly enough, the termies make great ranged support for the BT.

Also the new FAQ finally gave the ven dread WS and BS of 5.

I say go black templar! I read helsreach and oddly enough it turned me more in to a fan of the orks than Black Templar. I loved the black templar before that book, but after reading it, it kind of turned me off to them. They all whined...the whole time.

Anyway, I like to pretend I didnt read Helsreach and that the Black Templar are still the most righteous and badass marines out there. They hold true to the old ways!

Cool. I'll probably get some. But I'm a bit confused...use them as c:sm, as in chaos space marines??? How does that work?

c:sm = codex: space marines.
c:csm = codex: chaos space marines

 Icculus wrote:
c:sm = codex: space marines.
c:csm = codex: chaos space marines

That makes SO much more sense :p

Actually, what would also probably work well would be to buy regular space marine minis, paint them "black" and buy a couple of BT unique minis too. That way, if iwant to play regular aspace marines, I exclude the BT unique ones, if I want to play BTs, I just include the BT unique ones.... would have to get both codexes.

Well Black Templars do use the same units. The tactical squads are the same, and scouts are neophytes. You would need an emperors champion as a mandatory HQ.

Other than that chaplains are chaplains and commanders can be run as the marshal or castellan. The only other unique figures are High Marshal Helbrecht and Grimaldus. But Grimaldus would be awesome.

Then you can get a black templar upgrade kit for all the logos and tabards.

Also, for some more info on black templars, hope on over to www.bolterandchainsword.com and find the Black Templar section of the forum.

Buy black Templars if you like the aesthetic and then use both codices to see which you like more. I play both interchangeably for variety but mostly stick to vanilla marines because they're overall better.

Don't count on a codex update any time thing year either.

If you're going to make them true Templars with Tabards and shoulder pads/chained bolters then use eBay to get the bits, it'll save you money

 Icculus wrote:
c:sm = codex: space marines.
c:csm = codex: chaos space marines

I prefer CSM (chaos space marines)
and SM (space marines)

Much simpler and works

Edit: you may notice that the Dakka glossary likes it better my way (their way) too.

They do have some interesting ideas:

5 terminators with 2 cyclone missiles is pretty cool. Take it twice.
3 bikes with 3 plasma guns again works with the MSU theme of the terminators.

Having a LR crusader as a dedicated transport for 10 tacs and 5 scouts in a joint squad is a real threat, or just go 20 men + IC for a real tough blob unit.

Techmarines and servitors are also interesting - much more choice and impact than vanilla and allows you to take another land raider in your list.

I'm liking their close combat style of fighting, love the color scheme, love the background/fluff, and their attitude. However, with 6th ed. being a shooty ed., I'm second guessing myself. Also, can they not field Devastators? What about jump pack use?

Black templars actually shoot very well, with TH termies, cheap landspeeders and POTMS vindicators. They can also take special weapons on their troops faster than anyone else.

And since they don't like psychers, librarians are out of the question, right?

Yes, not that it's a bad thing.

How do the BT compare to Blood Angels and Dark Angels?

Blood angels are all about jumping around and speed, dark angels are about termies and bikes. Black templars are all about the middle ground between them, they will almost always have more stuff on the field, and rightous zeal makes them nearly as fast if not faster than most armies that are walking around.

Trust me when I say a good BT player will crush anything except flier spam. They have all the tools they need to handle everything else. If you are hating on fliers, an aegis line and/or allies can fix that quickly.

Good info. Yeah, it's decided. I will do the good old make them lookmoikemblack templars, get the codex for both and switch which from game to game.

I enjoy playing my Templars very much, even so they went don on the powerscale.

A typical list for maximum effect looks like:

Champion
+ CC Squad

Termisquad with two missels

2-3 5man squads with heavy weapon

2-9 Landspeeder Typhoons


Or you go for large squads and Assualt Terminators + Land Raider Crusaders.

The Bolter&Chainsword Black Templar Forum will answer ANY question you have. We just have a build a Templar Force challenge you might like.

Dont play BT with the SM codex. The Bt community will despise you. Well, the players worth a damn will anyway.

Its a fun book. Most games I play people have no idea of their rules and it keeps the opponents guessing. Especially Zeal. I place well in tourneys and get lots of attention for being the oddball. I wouldnt change a thing.

I say start small and always build to their strenghs. Get an EC, two Tac boxes, a Scout box, and BT upgrade. You can play small games on that with a ten man CC squad with EC and a five man shooter. Then scoop up two Speeders, because our Typhoons are cheap an awesome. Get yourself a Marshall or Chappy, then some CML Termis and youre creeping into 1000 point territory.

The Black Tide is an awesome build when used right. 25 man squad that usually hits enemy lines by turn two. 10 Neos, 10 Initiates, EC, and a Chappy with 3 Servitors. Throw a Techmarine in there for dirty dirty fisting. Dont be shy.

More BT cheese: Tank Hunting CMLx2 Termis on a Quad Gun. Yes, Tank Hunter confers to the Quad Gun. You are going to flatten medium armor until the fliers hit, then flatten them too. Or better yet, run a TDA Marshall with a Command Squad and put the Marshall on the Quad. You sir now have a BS5 Tank Hunting Quad Gun. Use this if you gunline and piss people off.

Its a fun army and youll stand out from the cheese lists and new shinys. It will take practice but anything that will pay off usually does. Check out Bolter and Chainsword; thats where youll find thr hardcore BT players and a lot of great tactica as well.

I think I would also agree with the suggestion not to switch between the two codices. I would get confused on rules from switching back and forth and then would only get half as much practice with each army. If you want to be good at black templar, keep playing as black templars.

You have more fun and more Templar feeling playing them only from Codex: Black Templars.


Its quite satisfiying to win this way.