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Quick-Strike / BattleForce are an incredibly amazing set of rules. I am so very glad that they are publishing them seperately. I would go a step further, however, and replace the main system with them. 12 on 12 mech battles in 2-3 hours is a fantastic selling point.

The "unseen" stats still exist in Battletech, just no figs, and the figs from 25 years ago are pretty crap compared to today's standards. Many of the Robotech mecha will fit perfectly when they are released.

 Manchu wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I bought one, opened it once, decided it was too complex to get my friends into and put it away.

LOL same here. BT seems so cool but ... it also seems pretty inaccessible.

We're playing Alphastrike when it comes out. Quickstrike/Battleforce is _awesome_. I got about a hundred mechs and plenty of 1/285 terrain (also useful for Robotech) ready to go!
Alternately we could also play sooner, since I own Strategic Operations.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Who designs their miniatures. He needs to be taken out back and put down. They are just so bad. Seriously the minis I have from about 20 years ago look better than these.

I agree. They should run a KS to hire a sculptor to resculpt the mechs and base them off the MechWarrior Online designs by Alex Iglesias. I'd pledge for that.

We might all be talking about different things.

Classic Battletech - is the old style, hundreds of armor points, 8 hour game that is the Intro box set (and Total Warfare), played on hex grid maps. To be fair, while the rules are very clunky, the recent releases have been very well laid out and it's not that complicated of a system, just takes a looong time to play.
Best played with lance on lance, maybe a little larger (4-8 models per side)

Alpha Strike - is the streamlined ruleset, originally called Quick Strike with BattleForce - which were publishing in a book called Strategic Operations but in two different sections so you had to jump around a lot. It was harder to play this as you needed a giant supplement book and the rules were all over the place in a 500-page book. AlphaStrike is those rules reorganized and streamlined into it's own product, instead of appendix rules in a supplement.
Easily playable with multiple companies (12-24 mechs per side)

I personally believe Alpha Strike (QS/BF) is a superior game system, allowing you to play much larger games, not using hexes - using terrain and inches, and your mech info all fits on a small card. It should be the way Battletech is marketed, as it not only allows new players to jump into it but also means they'll sell more figures (you play with more per side!)

I'm in the camp of folks who want intuitive and innovative game mechanics that allow for an incredible sense of depth with ease and rewards for thinking tactically.

Classic Battletech offers _none_ of the above. It was great when it came out - as a sort of advanced form of the Avalong Hill chit-based wargames - but other rulesets have evolved over the years. Battletech has not evolved, only bolted on additional rules. The core rules are unchanged, and that's the problem. They're "just okay", and have been for 30 years. Most of the mech designs are lackluster and outdated.

I played Battletech a lot 20 years ago. I have played it off and on since then, from the 2nd edition box set to 3rd edition to Compendium to Master Rules (and Revised) to the current incarnation. Each time has been more and more of a struggle to play because it's not intuitive, it's not smooth, it's not a fast-play game, and all those reasons make sure it's the absolute hardest game to get new players for. I've seen more people want to play Advanced Squad Leader than ever want to play Battletech again.

It's very, very sad, because Battletech has such a rich universe. But a company can't exist on a very, very small user-base and good fiction alone.

Quick-Strike/Battleforce re-invigorated my love for Battletech and the 5 other people who played with me also loved it and have asked me to run it again.

That is the reason I believe Catalyst should relaunch Battletech using Alpha-Strike as the core rules and relegating the Classic Battletech rules to advanced, optional rules. Alpha-Strike with redesigned miniatures based on Alex Iglesias' artwork launched as the core game would revitalize Catalyst Games and the Battletech brand. I have no doubt it my mind that it would get it played in every game store and sell incredibly well, especially as a tie-in with Mechwarrior Online.

efarrer wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:


That is the reason I believe Catalyst should relaunch Battletech using Alpha-Strike as the core rules and relegating the Classic Battletech rules to advanced, optional rules. Alpha-Strike with redesigned miniatures based on Alex Iglesias' artwork launched as the core game would revitalize Catalyst Games and the Battletech brand. I have no doubt it my mind that it would get it played in every game store and sell incredibly well, especially as a tie-in with Mechwarrior Online.

Or more likely, it would suffer the same fate as the other games that were re-released with the dumbed down rules...

see Confrontation for a wonderful example.

Obviously Catalyst should continue on the path that has taken Battletech from one of the biggest miniatures games in the world, with it's own cartoon and massive merchandising, to the incredibly unpopular game that it is today, with only a handful of really old gamers who fondly remember "the good ol' days of Battletech, before the clans" taking up a table at a convention to get their one game in for the year.

It's rather interesting that this is the attitude that I encounter on the forums such as the official Battletech forums and Lords of the Battlefield. There's a core group of Battletech gamers who would absolutely love it if no one else ever played the game. It's unfortunately a very cancerous attitude that should really be excised. Battletech will never be as great as it once was without a total redesign and rebranding of the system to make it marketable again. As it stands, it's an obtuse, clunky system with terrible miniatures.

I really, really hope Alpha-strike takes off, because it is a superior ruleset that could easily compete in the market today. There is no comparable ruleset with wide distribution that allows you to play huge, tactically rewarding battles between giant robots in a short timespan. The rules are intuitive and easy to pick up compared to almost every other popular system on the market, and orders of magnitude more manageable than Classic Battletech. But I know it won't be a success, as every Battletech release sells less than the previous one.

 Manchu wrote:

There's also the old question of what drives a table top gaming product line, rules or miniatures? BT is vulnerable either way but it seems to me that BT suffers more in the latter case. I can fathom devotion to a certain ruleset. Devotion to the current BT models, or at least the ones I have seen, is harder to imagine. Furthermore, I reckon new customers would be more willing to struggle with the learning curve if the miniatures were worthwhile.

There's a direct correlation - Battletech, at it's core, is a chit-based game that is played on a hex-grid. Miniatures were always secondary to the rules. There's been no attempt to reign in the scale creep (with many releases in the past 8 years being 1/240 to 1/200 scale instead of 1/300 or 1/285) simply because miniatures do_not_matter for Battletech. They absolutely would matter if the core game was a miniatures game, but it's not. Miniatures rules are tacked on to the base game. As a result, the game has always suffered from absurd mech designs and even worse miniature sculpts.

 Manchu wrote:
I really shudder at the idea of chits. No statement has put me off of BT as much as what you just said.

Don't tell Scott that! Him, Ilias, and Kevin all love Squad Leader, haha

Seriously though, that's one of the many reasons why I love Battletech Alpha-strike (Quick-strike/Battleforce), as it's a miniatures game with abbreviated stat-tracking that allows you to play very large games in a short amount of time.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Honestly, the game has been cursed since FASA closed shop and the license hopped from Wizkids/Fanpro to Topps/Catalyst. I still meet people who think the game died with FASA, and when you convince them that it is "alive" (I am using that term loosely) they can't find product on game shelves because Catalyst hasn't reprinted core products crucial to getting the game in the hands of new players.

The license needs to be given over to a new company with new blood and new ideas. Preferably one without Catalysts' sense of financial mismanagement so that this game can properly grow. Until that happens the game will continue to flounder and exist in a state of perpetual mediocrity.

Thanks for a fantastic reply/post. I am really glad there are others out there who feel like I do. Battletech is such an amazingly rich property - as previously stated, the lore and background are as deep and complex as Warhammer 40,000, but the game is nearly unapproachable to a new gamer.

As @Tamwolf said earlier, there's no new blood because the "video game generation" doesn't get instant gratification from the game... I can see how that is a viable theory, but the reverse is also true. I'm over 30 now, and I have limited free time. When I get together with my gaming group, I like to play as many satisfying games as possible. If a game doesn't play fast and well, and I don't get a feeling that my tactical choices mattered, it won't be played again, ever. Classic Battletech does not fit that mold. It takes a very long time to play, compared to other games; and the constant slugging and blowing bits off, damage by damage, with range and movement and heat and so on modifiers adds a level of complexity that can probably be emulated more elegantly - and then after all these modifier and stat tracking, a lucky Gauss rifle takes the head off your mech. Ya know what? Mechwarrior Online does this better, haha.

I understand there is still an audience for Classic Battletech, and if it's a profitable propety, Catalyst (or whomever in the future) should continue to support it with releases. But, here's the thing - instead of making Alpha Strike a supplement, it should be the _core game_. It should have the box set, containing newly designed miniatures; it should have new releases; it should be out there getting demo'ed and getting new players into the Battletech universe, with giant tournaments and making the property financially viable again. I firmly believe the Alpha Strike [quickstrike/battleforce] system, marketed properly, and supported with new miniatures, could put Battletech into the big three/four (40k, Warmachine, X-Wing, Battletech).

 Eilif wrote:

"Quick Strike" (soon to be named "Alpha Strike") is something else entirely. It is a ruleset derived from the "Battleforce" game.
"Battleforce is a Tactical level ruleset played out on a hex map where each miniature or chit represents a formation (Lance, Platoon, etc). The mechanics are similar, but less complex than Battletech and it has it's own unique unit cards. It's made to have alot more units on the table than regular Battletech. Battleforce was formerly a stand-alone game, but now has been rolled into the "Strategic Operations" Book.

Quick Strike is a ruleset derrived from Battleforce. It uses most of the same rules, and the same cards. The main differences are:
-It's played on 3d terrain (though it can be played hexed)
-One miniature equals what it is, not a lance or platoon of them.

This is correct, and why it makes for an excellent game. You can have dozens of mechs on the table, each represented by only a single stat card that lists it's capabilities, on a beautiful table covered with awesome urban or jungle or whatever terrain. It's more visually arresting and quicker to play than normal Battletech and the rules are quite simple and very elegant. They operate on the "simple core rules, with things adding special rules" tenant that makes it very easy to pick up and play, as a new player has to learn the rules for 5 minutes, and then the few special rules for the few special items his mechs have (such as autocannon damage not causing heat, etc)

FYI Battletech Alpha Strike is available for PDF purchase and physical book preorder...

Preview 1 - http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5117
Preview 2 - http://bg.battletech.com/?p=5128

Purchase - http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=alpha+strike&x=0&y=0


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Example of unit card:

I thought the PDF included around 60 mechs?

For now the Master Unit List http://www.masterunitlist.info/ has the Battleforce original cards - just double the Movement for inches and ignore some of the special rules that don't apply... from what I understand the MUL is having a big update in time for the hardcover release that will add in all the cards for all the mechs for Alpha Strike. I think they're about 2/3 done right now.

 Eilif wrote:

I realize this. I was referring to his particular 3d designs. As far as I can tell IWM and he both appear to be working from the same 2d design, yet his execution looks better to me. Even more remarkable since he probably just has the picture in the TRO and whatever he might be able to find in other sourcebooks, and IWM probably gets more detailed drawings from Catalyst.

Not in the least bit. They're using the 3d mech files in Mechwarrior Online (and Mechwarrior 4 for the Fafnir, Vulture, etc).

I agree. I wish whatever licensing deals would get worked out so that IWM could produce the MWO designs. Can you imagine an Alpha Strike box set with plastic mechs of all the MWO mechs? It'd sell out in a heartbeat.

That's what happens when you hire a good designer (Alex Iglesias)

Adamsouza, the new box set and the fast play rules are different products (unfortunately).

The new box set contains the classic Battletech rules with a pile of miniatures, best for 4 mechs vs 4 mechs, or so.

Alpha Strike is a supplemental hardcover (or pdf) book with rules on how to play, best for 12-24 mechs vs 12-24 mechs per side.

 Manchu wrote:
On the plus side, Alpha Strike can be had for rather cheap via amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/BT-Alpha-Strike/dp/1936876760/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375977410&sr=8-1&keywords=alpha+strike

Can't wait! We're playing the Saturday after it shows up in my grubby little hands.

I 100% thoroughly enjoy Battleforce/Quickstrike, which is what Alpha Strike is based on.

Alpha Strike retains most of the flavor of the Classic Battletech rules that Mechwarrior Clix lost. For example, comparing Alpha Strike to Battletech:

Mechs still have armor and internal structure points, but it's only one set for each armor and structure. Once armor is breached, damage is done to the structure.

When the structure takes damage, you can roll for criticals on a chart (which involve engine damage, ammo explosion, etc)

Mechs have a damage value at S, M, and L range. If they hit (based on their one skill value, 2d6 versus a to-hit#), they cause the damage to their target. The to-hit number starts at their skill value, plus 2 for medium, plus 4 for long, plus this and that for moving, etc. So a long range shot from a moving target to a moving target with cover is nigh impossible, but two assault mechs blasting each other at short range barely moving will be smashing each other to bits.

Some mechs have an overheat value (of 1, 2, or 3); this allows them to overheat their mech and icnrease their damage output by their overheat value, but it makes their mech hot - you mark their heat value on their card, and next turn they have another modifier to hit based on their overheat value. They spend a turn not shooting to cool off. If heat goes to more than 3, mech shuts down for a turn.

Some mechs have special stats, such that they might haveLRM's, so a portion of their damage at range can be shot at an enemy that is in LOS to a friendly but not to them. Or Autocannons, so a portion of their damage can be special autocannon munitions, etc. Some have CASE so an ammo explosioin critical won't auto destroy the mech, and so on.

Movement is all in inches and facings are based off the hex sides on the 'mech; you get bonuses for shooting a mech in the back.

Well, that's like half the rules right there. As you can see, more detailed than the Clix but wayyy easier and faster playing than normal Battletech.

All the thumbs up.

I disagree heavily with the part about closing and forming a conga-line. If anything, all of my experience with the rules greatly reward mixed ranges (especially with spotting for LRM's, or Lights harassing Assaults). And our games have always had several nail-biting moments on whether a shot will finish off a mech or not. We also do alternating 'mechs for 12v12, and found it was pretty quick playing. Huge game in 2 hours.

We found the system really rewards tactically-minded players... our last game had 2 players on the Lyran side (very much acting like the Lyran Commonwealth), slowly marching their mechs in tight formations towards their opponents, who were playing FedSuns and moving through cover and spotting for LRM assists, and ambushing stragglers with light or jump capable mechs. The Lyrans were crushed.

We've also been playing scenario based missions. I want to next run a series of linked games for my group as a mercenary company versus me controlling the baddies in several scenarios.

I do hope you give the ruleset another try.

I try to cover the table in as much terrain as possible. I have several sets of the Epic 40k plastic buildings and I just bought about 50 1/300 resin buildings to add into the mix (for the undamaged look) and I'm probably going to pick up some more trees. I love lots of hills and cover since it's 1/300 ish; it doesn't make much sense to me if it's a barren playing field. We also pretty much play that if your mech is totally wide open is when there's no cover modifiers - so there were almost always be cover modifiers (one of Jbuckmaster's complaints about the scale differences). Only mechs hangin' out in the breeze will not get a cover bonus. I also like to vary up the skill a bit; making lance commanders have skill 3 and the company commander or an ace pilot with a skill 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But as an addendum, my plan for the campaign game will have the players starting as a merc unit with a pool of skill 4 people (perhaps a lance of 4 per player); as they suffer losses the mechs and pilots that survive get skill bumps and then by scenario 3 or so they'll have their actual pilot/mech that is the player's pilot/mech, hanging around skill 2 or 3. Then new npc's that they recruit will have varying skill levels, 3 to 5 - the better skilled, the more expensive to hire or retain. And then of course the contracts have to pay out to repair their mechs and such (good ol' Field Manual Mercenaries helps with that) I'm fairly excited to start running it as an every 3 weeks or so starting in about a month.

Oh, I'm really excited but the prospect. It's something I've always wanted to do since I love the Battletech fiction but the CBT game rules proper have not lent themselves well to pick and and play games for a large gaming group that has varied interests. I've found the Alpha Strike rules are easy enough to learn that the players can be engaged in the roleplaying and campaign aspects without being bogged down in the minutiae.

Alpha Strike unit cards box set MSRP $15 at Gencon

From what I understand the printed rulebook has the stats in an appendix. The nice unit cards are all glossy laminated dry erase style cards for like 90 different mechs or something.

 frozenwastes wrote:


I think I'll copy them into a word process, make them 3.5x2.5 and put them in card sleeves and use a dry or wet erase pen on them.

Get them printed on 3.5x5 photos, glossy, and you won't need card sleeves. Dry erase works perfectly on true photographic paper. I use http://richmondcamera.photofinale.com (you need to install Silverlight) for 19 cent 3.5x5 and 4x6 prints.

 Eilif wrote:
Just bought it. I was delaying the purchase to get the hardback, but a friend offered to print and bind it for me so I picked up the PDF.

Really looking forward to playing this with my club. We've got a bunch of rebased mechwarrior pieces that we use for 10mm gaming, so it should be a cinch to plug them into this ruleset. I'm sure they will also appreciate that most of their mechs and vehicles are already represented by BF cards!

Take pics and post battle reports!

 frozenwastes wrote:

judgedoug wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:


I think I'll copy them into a word process, make them 3.5x2.5 and put them in card sleeves and use a dry or wet erase pen on them.

Get them printed on 3.5x5 photos, glossy, and you won't need card sleeves. Dry erase works perfectly on true photographic paper. I use http://richmondcamera.photofinale.com (you need to install Silverlight) for 19 cent 3.5x5 and 4x6 prints.

This is such a good idea.

There's also card maker software here:
http://btengineer.blogspot.ca/2013/08/alpha-strike-card-maker-update.html

So I can look at the Master Unit List, put the stats into the card maker and produce full colour images I can take to have printed as pictures anywhere that prints digital camera prints. Fantastic!

EDIT: It looks like the card maker can load directly from the MUL. Also, I found a local place that does 4x6 prints for $0.15 + tax. Now all I need to do is get someone with a digital camera to take pictures of my mechs so I can put them on the cards.

Wow, that looks excellent, thanks for the link!

ALSO: Make sure that the prints are on true photographic paper processed chemically (preferably with Ektacolor/RA4 developer), and NOT dye-sublimation. Dye-sub is lower quality and due to the heat process that affixes a thin layer of transparent film onto the paper, is not very durable. Most photo kiosks are dye-sub as it's basically a Windows/USB printer.

mrfantastical wrote:
I've played 2 games so far. Rules are not very complex, but I think there is a big issue with balance between mechs. I had a my 19 pt atlas get owned by a 16 awesome.

This can be a simple fix by catalyst by allowing the community to review/balance the points system.

Overall fun game.

Atlas is a brawler - most weapons are short range, best for infighting. 5/5/2 damage. Awesome has three primary weapons which are good at pretty much all range bands. 3/3/3 damage. The Atlas also has 2 more points of armor. So at long range the Awesome is better but would be destroyed quickly by an Atlas up close.