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Hello everyone. Just wanted to ask all you Space Wolf players a questions. I am considering doing an army based off the "Howling Griffons" chapter utilizing the shadow camo from the Badab War Forgeworld book. Now the idea behind this is that I would convert several marines to be "Griffon Cav" and mount them on Demi-Griffons from the Empire Warhammer Fantasy line and run them as Thunderwolves. Currently @ 2000pts. I am have created a list using x15 of them with Grey Hunters in drop pods but still not sure how effective that is. Now a few questions:

-Is running large numbers of them 10-15 of them work well and competitive?
-What best supports them?
-Characters I should take
-Loadouts for the units, what is recommended.

Thanks for your help guys, just a real cool idea and wanted to have this questions answered .

Brother, I have been experimenting with thunderwolf cavalry for a bit now and I got to tell you they are very fragile when shooting begins. Even with storm shields, you can only role so many twos before you start pulling your bad ass models off the table.

I've never tried 10-15 of them at a time.

Supporting the charge I've kept grey hunters and long fangs close.

Just experiment otherwise!

The idea is cool as hell though! Good luck and send us pics!

 gmaleron wrote:


-Is running large numbers of them 10-15 of them work well and competitive?
-What best supports them?
-Characters I should take
-Loadouts for the units, what is recommended.

1: Numbers depends on the Enemy, against Gunlines are lager group allows several to enter close combat. But against CC Troops even 3 can be enough to smash them.
2: Either Firesponges that charge ahead (Fenriswolfes) or Longfangs that picks on Str 8+ Weapons (Most Time they dont need Support)
3: Thunderlord for Challenges with SotB (Against ST10) and AP3 Weapon/Stormshield ( I run a Wolfclaw/SS Lord with Runic, he killed a Nugellord and Kharn until now [Kharn was Luck and bad enemy rolls] ), what is also possible is a Runepriest on Bike (a moving 24inch sniper against MCs and equal anoying slow targets + Moving Coverbonus)
4: In a unit of three, i run one Fist and two CCW/Stormshields ( 5 ST10 AP2 Fists on the charge deals with almost everything + 12 ST5 Rending hits)

Thats how i use them. And yes even smallscale fire can kill them, but on the other hand if they reach CC they will kick ass. (In a Testgame for new Players a Thunderwolfgroup of 3 + Lord killed around 1000P of Tau alone, and win the game for the SW player)

Not really. You have to weather a turn of shooting, followed by another turn every single turn since with TWC you're unlikely to ever not roll a unit in combat. They're really not much more survivable than MEQ and if you put a storm shield on them, not only does their points cost almost double, but you're no more survivable against bolters or lasguns or pulse rifles than you were before. Which matters, since those are the weapons that kill TWC.
Not to mention you're talking around 750 points for 10. That's a hell of a lot of points for units that don't even score.

I wish you luck, since I adore the models, and if you do have success I'd be inspired to try it too. I'm just not convinced that it's even remotely competitive.

I've said this before, and will probably say it again, but a TWC with Stormshield is roughly the same unit as a Wraith...only twice as expensive. So, unfortunately, in the wider context of the game, a TWC is a very cost ineffecient unit. (although you could play a really strange "counts as" Army). I use them in friendly games, but they are definitely not a "competitive" choice.

A Thunderlord is nearly as expensive as a Greater Demon (and in some cases, just as expensive) and almost as killy in close combat. But, no flight, no psychic powers, less mobile in general, and arguably less survivable.. I think the best way to run a Thunderlord is in a maxed out unit of Fenrisian Wolves and use him as a suicide line breaker (bypass assault threats and crash into gunlines), and really, the best way to do that is probably in a Guard gunline list. (Something like Thunderlord, Rune Priest for buffing a blob or Artillery, maxed out unit of Wolves and some Grey Hunters).

Yes! This Thunderwolf Cavalry list is viable.I have used one often to great success. Though I will say it is more difficult in 6th edition, it can still be done. I usually have a Thunderlord with Saga of the Warrior Born, Storm Shield, and Frost Blade. Then a solid 6-7 Thunderwolves split into two units, with various kits, all with at least a Storm Shield and Frost Blade though, usually one Thunder Hammer, along with Melta Bombs. Then GH in Drop Pods, or footlslogging, and some Wolf Guard.

As for Characters, the best would probably be Canis Wolfborn, he has everything that you could set up a WolfLord with for cheaper, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't still use a Wolf Lord. I have found that the Wolf Lord I mentioned above is better suiting, or some variant. Or even just take both!

Though I do agree on the fact that they have less overall than say the Greater Daemon, or other HQ, in a group I have to say that Thunderwolves are among the most deadly and effective units in the game.

10-15 would absolutely insane! I have only run 12 10 in an Apocalypse game once. It wold be better to run two units of 5-6. But more realistically, like I said earlier, two units of 3-4 is better. Supported by the GH in Drop Pods, and Long Fangs of course. One way to fill up the Core, and cheaply, is to have Fenrisian Wolves, and a lot of them. Taking Canis Wolfborn as HQ, and mass Wolves to run in front and tie enemies up can actually work well, especially when supported by Long Fangs and Grey Hunters.(if they can fit)

It can be bad when shooting begins(especially with those new Tau!) but I usually either try to get them into the nearest combat, or move them behind additional terrain/cover, and sit the pods in front of them later on. That is the only real concern I have when utilizing these lists.

 gmaleron wrote:
Hello everyone. Just wanted to ask all you Space Wolf players a questions. I am considering doing an army based off the "Howling Griffons" chapter utilizing the shadow camo from the Badab War Forgeworld book. Now the idea behind this is that I would convert several marines to be "Griffon Cav" and mount them on Demi-Griffons from the Empire Warhammer Fantasy line and run them as Thunderwolves. Currently @ 2000pts. I am have created a list using x15 of them with Grey Hunters in drop pods but still not sure how effective that is.

First: I love the theme. Its a clever "counts-as". I definitely think you should embrace the theme and run with it.

 gmaleron wrote:
Is running large numbers of them 10-15 of them work well and competitive?

15 Thunderwolves will run you anywhere from 750 to 1200 points. They'll only be scoring in a third of the missions. They have no reach and flat out can't hurt certain targets (Flyers in "Zoom" mode & FMC in "Swooping" mode). They are highly susceptible to attrition so you end up in some "damned if you do, damned if you don't" circumstances with regards to Storm Shields. On the one hand, you need Storm Shields or you die to AP 3. On the other, a Storm Shield doesn't do anything against AP 4 and worse and you'll die just the same with only 2 wounds per model.

Frankly, there is no way for it to be competitive. 6th edition is highly Objective oriented. If you take a list that is all TWC and Fenrisian Wolves you are handing over First Blood and Linebreaker to the enemy. So you are down by 2 Victory Points already. Then you have no scoring units, so you can only contest objectives from the enemy. Warlord will be harder for you to lose, but since you have to be in combat there are some matches where its a big risk (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Daemons for some scary gribblies).

Speaking of Chaos Space Marines, a Baleflamer from a Heldrake is S6 AP3 Torrent. He's going to Vector Strike you for D3+1 S7 AP4 hits and then flame you every round from Turn 2 onward. You have nothing that can take him out if you are "all" TWC. You'll rapidly lose your army in a few short turns if he has more than one Heldrake.

Also, TWC are not made to fight a 'hard' combat unit. Terminators are something you'd want to avoid most of the time. And against Grey Knights? Forget it! You'd have to take Storm Shields on every model, making them 80 points a piece.

6th edition is the Troops edition. You can't skimp on them. You definitely don't want to spend 2/3rds of your available points on units that only help against a limited number of situations.

 gmaleron wrote:
What best supports them?

Honestly, you have it backwards. They are the support unit really. Everything in Codex: Space Wolves is designed to provide support for your Grey Hunters. Since you won't be taking those, or many of those...

 gmaleron wrote:
Characters I should take

Wolf Lords with a Thunderwolf Mount are the only real choice. Canis Wolfborn is a bad joke. He's terrible. The only reason to take him is because you want Fenrisian Wolves to count as Troops so you can take them and 3 TWC units. "Thunderwolf Lords" are downright terrifying if they can get in combat though.

 gmaleron wrote:
Loadouts for the units, what is recommended.

Typically you see units of 3 models with 2 Storm Shields and a Power Fist or Wolf Claw. This is just about the same price as a kitted out Grey Hunter pack. The unit is also small enough to take advantage of terrain and cover provided by your vehicles.


My advice: Only make 3-5 "Griff Calv" models. For one, it will make them stand out more if they are obviously unique. For two, all TWC is just a bad thing against most lists in 6th edition. You'll either win big or lose big, but you'll usually lose big. Having a single unit of TWC supporting your troops will allow for a more competitive list.

cowmonaut wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Hello everyone. Just wanted to ask all you Space Wolf players a questions. I am considering doing an army based off the "Howling Griffons" chapter utilizing the shadow camo from the Badab War Forgeworld book. Now the idea behind this is that I would convert several marines to be "Griffon Cav" and mount them on Demi-Griffons from the Empire Warhammer Fantasy line and run them as Thunderwolves. Currently @ 2000pts. I am have created a list using x15 of them with Grey Hunters in drop pods but still not sure how effective that is.

First: I love the theme. Its a clever "counts-as". I definitely think you should embrace the theme and run with it.

 gmaleron wrote:
Is running large numbers of them 10-15 of them work well and competitive?

15 Thunderwolves will run you anywhere from 750 to 1200 points. They'll only be scoring in a third of the missions. They have no reach and flat out can't hurt certain targets (Flyers in "Zoom" mode & FMC in "Swooping" mode). They are highly susceptible to attrition so you end up in some "damned if you do, damned if you don't" circumstances with regards to Storm Shields. On the one hand, you need Storm Shields or you die to AP 3. On the other, a Storm Shield doesn't do anything against AP 4 and worse and you'll die just the same with only 2 wounds per model.

Frankly, there is no way for it to be competitive. 6th edition is highly Objective oriented. If you take a list that is all TWC and Fenrisian Wolves you are handing over First Blood and Linebreaker to the enemy. So you are down by 2 Victory Points already. Then you have no scoring units, so you can only contest objectives from the enemy. Warlord will be harder for you to lose, but since you have to be in combat there are some matches where its a big risk (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Daemons for some scary gribblies).

Speaking of Chaos Space Marines, a Baleflamer from a Heldrake is S6 AP3 Torrent. He's going to Vector Strike you for D3+1 S7 AP4 hits and then flame you every round from Turn 2 onward. You have nothing that can take him out if you are "all" TWC. You'll rapidly lose your army in a few short turns if he has more than one Heldrake.

Also, TWC are not made to fight a 'hard' combat unit. Terminators are something you'd want to avoid most of the time. And against Grey Knights? Forget it! You'd have to take Storm Shields on every model, making them 80 points a piece.

6th edition is the Troops edition. You can't skimp on them. You definitely don't want to spend 2/3rds of your available points on units that only help against a limited number of situations.

 gmaleron wrote:
What best supports them?

Honestly, you have it backwards. They are the support unit really. Everything in Codex: Space Wolves is designed to provide support for your Grey Hunters. Since you won't be taking those, or many of those...

 gmaleron wrote:
Characters I should take

Wolf Lords with a Thunderwolf Mount are the only real choice. Canis Wolfborn is a bad joke. He's terrible. The only reason to take him is because you want Fenrisian Wolves to count as Troops so you can take them and 3 TWC units. "Thunderwolf Lords" are downright terrifying if they can get in combat though.

 gmaleron wrote:
Loadouts for the units, what is recommended.

Typically you see units of 3 models with 2 Storm Shields and a Power Fist or Wolf Claw. This is just about the same price as a kitted out Grey Hunter pack. The unit is also small enough to take advantage of terrain and cover provided by your vehicles.


My advice: Only make 3-5 "Griff Calv" models. For one, it will make them stand out more if they are obviously unique. For two, all TWC is just a bad thing against most lists in 6th edition. You'll either win big or lose big, but you'll usually lose big. Having a single unit of TWC supporting your troops will allow for a more competitive list.

This sums it up pretty well. Though I will say that the support units can work universally, they can all support eachother. Thunderwolf armies work and are a terror in game.

Thunderwolf armies do not work in 6th edition is the entire point to my post. You have almost no way to get Firstblood, your Warlord by his nature has to be thrown into the enemy and is at risk, and you won't have the points for a solid back line or supporting firepower so you give up Linebreaker easy. On top of that you are only going to have the points for a token objective holding force, at best, meaning the enemy can blow those units away and deny you the ability to claim objectives outside The Scouring.

TWC are killy in combat, sure. But some Fearless/Stubborn unit with a large body count would take too long to kill. Even 5 Thunderwolves against something like a unit of 35 Plague Zombies, 30 Termagants, or even worse a 30 strong IG blob would take 3-4 (player) turns to wipe out (even with a 6+ save and rending, you are only killing 9-10 models a turn most of the time). And that's assuming you had zero casualties. Given how easy it would be to put a Chaos Lord in a Cultist/Zombie blob or to load the IG Sergeants/Commissar with Power Axes in with the unit, you will have casualties (3++ or no).

The earliest you will be charging the enemy is likely Turn 2, unless your opponent is dumb. You have probably 3 turns left in the game. If you charged a unit like that to get them off of an objective, you'd be looking at the last half of Turn 4 or beginning of Turn 5 before you break the unit. That leaves you maybe 2 other TWC units and some token force of other units to win the game for you.


You just aren't going to do well with a 'pure' TWC list in 6th edition. Not if your opponent has half a brain and plays the mission (objectives). They weren't that amazing in 5th edition, except 1/3rd of the missions were Kill Points.

In the end though, its your army. Do what you think is fun and cool. But don't pretend it "works well" or "is competitive".