Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Heya.

I will go into minor detail about the sentimental value of this list to me: I apologize in advance for those whom observe this as un-necessary, or bad form.

For the record, this army is intended to be given to my son as an heirloom if and when he starts 40k.

Brief explanation of sentimental factor: Eldar were my first 40k army from when the models were all metal and no real vehicle models existed (apart from jetbikes). My Craftworld was annihilated in a Campaign (in the 1990s) after a Space Wolf player who was supposed to ally with me sided with a Chaos player to avoid coming last in the league.
This caused bitterness. In the sudden mismatch of points, I redid my list 'on spec' and changed a small Marine contingent into Legion of the Damned (Allied with Eldar in the mid 90s!!!) to points match. This caused a vehement protesting and a heated disagreement.
At the endgame/ between game 'campaign move' the SW took all the Eldar holdings 'just like that', the Chaos army defaced my Avatar (leaving me unable to field one to which I replied 'for 1000 years until it regrows on the Wraithbone throne').
This caused escalating rivalry and anger. In my move I D-Cannoned and Vibro-Cannoned the planet from orbit (with the guns of the Craftworld) and destroyed it, declaring pre-emptively that:

..."the planet was turned inside out and upside down [i](as per some rules of the day), the Craftworld was torn apart and raining down on the planet together with the fleets of every other player that were in orbit, that my Eldar escaped into the Webway to become multiple scattered Exodite colonies and my Space Marines were 'witnessed to be absorbed into the Legion of the Damned by every army present...".[/i]

This got me kicked out and ended the campaign (which I won, according to me). I have continued this backstory in every club that I have fielded my Eldar in since; Tho I have never played LotDamned again (and don't want to) the rest of the Eldar backstory has been embraced and permited by fellow players, even factored into local campaigns, which is an honor.

Now, I want to resurrect my refugees' future by giving them a Craftworld fragment of theirs, floating around in Space, to reclaim for real and for good. Others will write the campaign substory for me (It's only fair). My Eldar are a 'cameo army' right now which consist of 2 Guardian squads, 2 Dinosaur [digimon] Heavy Weapon platforms and Farseer and a few proxy Wraithlords [Transformers] and Cannons (the rest were sold years ago or are in hundreds of bits). I have an Allied Craftworld player to grant me construction facilities of modern Craftworld vehicles, instead of just Exodite gear. The Allied player has agreed to backwrite his fluff to grant my refugees a neighborhood in his Craftworlds' slums, giving me freedom to build a proper Craftworld army rather than just some Exodite tribes.

THE LIST (in draft overview format) (also see Space Wolf Allies, below):
*I want the Wraithseer to represent the generation gap absolutely. I feel this is a must. It will be imported into the list early on but I need advice on the heavy weapon option, PLEASE.
*There will be a new seer council, and I may top it off with Eldrad towards the end of the collection (no decision as to final collection size yet).
*Definitely Wraithguard. Maybe 2 units in total for 40k. Up to 5 (3 ccw, 2 shooty) for Apoc.
*I have no emotional desire to field an Avatar, nor a tactical fear of not fielding one. Should I?
*I will add a WraithKnight at the very end, as a proper salute. I do not want any larger Titans than this.
*I am thinking 2 Vyper squadrons and at least one full Guardian Jetbike Squadron.How to support?
*Almost definitely think a Fire Prism will be required. Would prefer D and Vibro Cannon batteries to other HS due to previous experience but am flexible on this subject.
*Am thinking 2:1 CCW:Shooty Guardians (1st wave shooty, 2nd wave choppy) since I am playing Orks right now and am ok with Slugga boy Tactica. Also 1 or 2 Ranger units to anchor flanks.
*No real Tactical value of Wraithlords to me, would prefer faster Wasps and Hornets from FW, but feel 'improper' not putting a Wraithlord in since my original army had 6 metal Eldar Dreadnoughts..what to do?
*Never had a real fave aspect until Shadow Spectres, but don't think I need any of them at all. Am thinking Swooping Hawks for sure, then a batch of Banshees and Scorpions to switch depending on opponents. I'm nervous about 'ultimately realizing I've forgotten/neglected to add reapers'.
*No real interest in flyers but will add if I must.

THE SPACE WOLF ALLIES: (Note: These Marines [The 'Wildrunners'] are not real Space Wolves but a degenerate 'counts as' lost army declared 'Adeptus Abominatus' and worshipping 'the light that shines on the Emperor', not 'The Emperor'. According to them, my Eldar are cool, caring, sharing friends. According to the Inquisition, my Eldar 'almost definitely' organized the Wildrunners degeneration about the time they foresaw the destruction of their Craftworld in order to control the Wildrunners better and use them as a means of survival Both armies fought together at Cadia and Ichar IV), btw.(Also note the Wildrunners have no connection to the 'SilverDragons', who are the army that was "absorbed by the Legion of the Damned" but some of them are "Silver Dragons" models that were repainted after the SD were absorbed).
This is the final intended list, currently half ready:
*Njal.(ready)
*2x full Blood Claws.(1 is ready)
*1xFull Grey Hunters.(ready)
*2x3 Landspeeders (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter).(1 is under construction).
*2x Vindicators (1 ready, 1 under construction)
*1x land Raider Crusader to transport Blood Claws group 1.(next job).
*Wolf Lord, Jump Pack, Wolf Claw, wrist Stormbolter and maybe Frost Blade (rest of Wargear undecided, currently in bits collection and decision process).
*Small Wolf Guard unit, Jump Packs, or else Skyclaws.(not ready).
*Larger Wolf Guard unit, maybe Termie heavy (have some OLD metal Power armor models ready to add to Blood Claws, no termies yet).
*Storm Raven or Storm Eagle or some other future flyer to transport Blood Claws group 2 (nowhere near ready).

What would you/should I change or add? These will all be given to my Son, who is 1 now, so I think a goodish but not honestly power built army with such a strong backstory would be a great heirloom for him if I do it well.

Sorry for length of post. Sincere thanks to any responses.

What is the question exactly? Do we think you should give the backstory to your son or just the miniatures?

To be honest, I have kids who are older than yours and as much as I'd like them to do things the way I want to do them - they generally just do it their own way. This is actually a good thing. So....

If you're asking me if I think you should modify your army or not for your 1 year old, all I have to say is this; Supposing that warhammer 40k is still being played at all when your son is old enough, then I would just recommend giving him all of your stuff and let him decide what army lists to build with it. Because as far as we know, by the time he's 10-11 years old and ready to start rolling dice, we'll be playing WH40K 15th edition and "Space Wolves" and "Eldar" could be completely different. Hell, they might even go the way of Squats and Sisters of Battle and be relegated to the "Specialist Games" dustbin.

So don't think so hard about it. Just build a list you like to play with and enjoy yourself.

 Grugknuckle wrote:
What is the question exactly? Do we think you should give the backstory to your son or just the miniatures?

To be honest, I have kids who are older than yours and as much as I'd like them to do things the way I want to do them - they generally just do it their own way. This is actually a good thing. So....

If you're asking me if I think you should modify your army or not for your 1 year old, all I have to say is this; Supposing that warhammer 40k is still being played at all when your son is old enough, then I would just recommend giving him all of your stuff and let him decide what army lists to build with it. Because as far as we know, by the time he's 10-11 years old and ready to start rolling dice, we'll be playing WH40K 15th edition and "Space Wolves" and "Eldar" could be completely different. Hell, they might even go the way of Squats and Sisters of Battle and be relegated to the "Specialist Games" dustbin.

So don't think so hard about it. Just build a list you like to play with and enjoy yourself.

Gee . Thanks.
I'm saying "Here is the one army I've always wanted to rebuild. Here is what I am thinking of doing right now. What is your critique of my overview so far for my army?
Oh, and by the way, of all the armies that I have, this one has acquired a dramatic enough backstory to become an heirloom".

I could be offended right now, if I elected to interpret the comment about designing an army for a one year old and making my Kid do what I want wrongly. I do believe you didn't intend to insult but to highlight something that you already know as a more experienced parent and feel I should be aware of (and so: Thank you). Please understand that I must say something in response to that and do not intend to be rude. I'm sure you can understand that 99% of whatever I do these days is inspired to be built for him, be it a vegetable garden or a kidproofed room. My 40k armies are the same now: his.
To be honest there are father/son teams in my club right now who have already displayed exactly what you are warning about and I believe I am aware enough of kids' individuality never to try and cramp it.
I don't plan on this being any army my Son asks for, but the one I would like to take care to leave useable and intact with its' backstory for future generations to carry on with, rather than tinker with and overhaul all the time.. I think it would be an interesting twist to choosing to field it or just talk about it.
I've thought of the possibility of 40k being fringe in the future. Maybe even Disney owned for all we know...

To clarify:
The army above has lots of skimmers and wraith constructs that need living guides, who are potentially vulnerable targets. Together with the advancing Vindicators and Wraith element the army is slow in the punch, tho Skimmers can make for quick jabs. Almost all HQ choices are psykers. There are no Harlequins or Avatar (later owners can do whatever they want) and most 3+ backup is still weak in Close combat against other Marines as they are Blood Claws with lower stats. Also trademark SW Fenrisian/Thunderwolves and Long Fangs are ignored and I don't want any Vector Dancing Eldar Flyers except out of necessity. One aspect that i want to make stable is the heavy weapon on the Wraithseer. Making this certain will let me start to know what to put around him and then further out, since he is a key focus point. Suggestions to cover weak points for 6th ed, please?

umm...Well Ok. I certainly didn't mean to offend. I guess I was trying to actually give some advice.

It seems like you are mostly interested in the fluffy back story of the army. There's nothing wrong with that. But really, why would I comment on the history of your army? If you insist that I do so, I would say that the loyal servants of the God-Emperor of Mankind do not stand with xenos scum! (I'd be joking around, but I doubt that would come through with text.) If you like your backstory, great! Go with it.

As for the effectiveness of your army in an actual game. I *could* comment on that. However, I can't really comment on your army list since you haven't given me one. You've given me a list of models / units that you own from which you could build many many different army lists. In that sense I think your army is great. The space wolves need a lot more grey hunters though.

As for the Eldar - they're going to get a brand new codex next month so it's very difficult to say with any authority what is 'good' and what is 'not good'. We'll have to wait and see.

IN ANY CASE :
Take a look at some of the other posts in the army list forum to get an idea of what people here are looking for and what kind of feedback you can expect. Because I don't mean to be rude, but your wall of text isn't really going to get much positive attention.

 Grugknuckle wrote:
IN ANY CASE :
Take a look at some of the other posts in the army list forum to get an idea of what people here are looking for and what kind of feedback you can expect. Because I don't mean to be rude, but your wall of text isn't really going to get much positive attention.

And I'd add that the history behind the army, specifically with regards to the playing of the campaign and what may have happened there, is a bit negative. By that I mean it scares people off because they don't want to come off as attacking you if they gave their honest opinion (and if you wanted mine I'd have to have you ask for it via PM!).

Also, Grugknuckle's advice was very rock solid. This is a game about your dudes so if your kid ever gets into W40K he's going to want it to be about his dudes. Basically Grugknuckle was just saying that it sounds like you are really attached to your army and it has real sentimental value to you, and kids being kids it won't have the same value to yours. So don't expect the army to be the same if you hand it down, and that's ignoring the fact the game will likely be fundamentally different by then.

In short: Don't get your hopes up. ~10 years is a long time to wait to hand something to someone. Things won't end up exactly how you picture them, and a game of soldiers is nothing to get really worked up about in the long run.


As for your collection, since this isn't an actual Army List, I'd have to just comment that its big and cool and has several units that are "fluffy" but not that "competitive". Strictly speaking, you have some things in your collection that simply aren't as good as alternatives (Blood Claws vs Grey Hunters). That's just straight up facts. I'm also confused on why you have a Stormraven and Stormeagle, given Space Wolves don't get to take those Flyers. Death from the Skies doesn't give them to us Space Wolves

I won't comment on the Eldar side of things since the Codex update hasn't dropped just yet.

Grugknuckle don't get me wrong, I can see that you're giving me advice. I'm not offended, I know you're right about what you are saying.

C/naut I will def think twice about the fact that the backstory will scare folks off if I parade it around. You are surely right as well. What other units could have better replacements tho? That's why I put up an overview list rather than a points list: It lets me get feedback about the final formation without pressures of a points limit.

I am pretty sure the FW flyer (I think it's the Storm Eagle) can be used by Space Wolves in the actual IA book. If not, then I won't take a flyer transport at all but use the 2nd Blood claws to screen the Vindies or something.

I'll look more closely at Blood Claws vs Grey Hunters, then go back to the drawing board and see what I come up with later and post it up for review.

Smoketreader wrote:
*Njal
*2x full Blood Claws.
*1xFull Grey Hunters.
*2x3 Landspeeders (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter).
*2x Vindicators
*1x land Raider Crusader to transport Blood Claws group 1..
*Wolf Lord, Jump Pack, Wolf Claw, wrist Stormbolter and maybe Frost Blade (rest of Wargear undecided)
*Small Wolf Guard unit, Jump Packs, or else Skyclaws.
*Larger Wolf Guard unit, maybe Termie heavy
*Storm Raven or Storm Eagle or some other future flyer to transport Blood Claws group 2

Looking strictly at "hardcore competitiveness" mind you, a few things jump at me.

1. Grey Hunters do everything Blood Claws do and more for the same points. On the charge, Blood Claws are getting an extra attack over the Grey Hunters and you have the option of taking more than 10 Blood Claws in a unit. Those are the only 2 things going for Blood Claws.

Grey Hunters still have 2-3 attacks each (depending if they charged), WS 4 means they aren't getting hit as much in combat (which means they take less wounds, and thus less casaulties), and can use a Wolf Standard to re-roll all 1's in the Assault Phase. For every thing that happens that phase. So that's re-roll's on 1's for Overwatch, To Hit, To Wound, To Save, number of attacks for Mark of the Wulfen (which Blood Claws can't take), and it applies to any ICs that joined them (such as Ragnar's +D3 attacks on the charge for each model in the unit he leads). Top it off, they have Bolters and can take special weapons.

So unless you need a single unit to have 15+ guys, there's no reason to take Blood Claws over Grey Hunters. Feel free to do so if you want to, but for a "competitive" list, its a no-brainer. Leave the 'Claws at home.

2. Landspeeders are a bit fragile. Generally speaking, taken solo with MM/HF with the expectation they will only get 1 chance to do anything or with Typhoon Missiles and hanging back are the only good way to take them. Too many other things in the Codex get priority over them because of this.

3. Vindicators are almost always lackluster. Definitely take them in pairs if you take them, but they usually do less than Long Fangs would, for comparable prices. They're good anti-horde, but you get enough of that from your Grey Hunters really. You need more heavy weapons, so using your Heavy Support slot on these guys is a style over substance ploy, like the Blood Claws. If you want a vehicle that does anti-horde, take a Whirlwind. Ignores Cover + Barrage == awesome. For 85 points its a steal.

4. Jump Wolf Guard are too expensive, don't do this. Skyclaws are a little better off than Blood Claws, but still suffer from WS3 so they are likely to take heavier casualties than your Grey Hunters in combat. For an assault unit that's just stupid. On the plus side they can take a Mark of the Wulfen at least. Swiftclaws are a better bet though really, since the T5 really helps (and they are more mobile than the Skyclaws). And of course there are the Thunderwolf Cavalry if you want a hard hitting fast moving assault unit...

5. For the Wolf Lord, a Wolf Claw does better statistically than a Frost Blade given the same number of attacks. Most people take Storm Shields over the Belt of Russ because of how much better a 3++ is than a 4++ so they'd usually have the same number of attacks between the weapons. A Thunderwolf Mount would do more for your Lord than the Jump Pack as well.

6. Wolf Guard are for suicide-melta squads, leading packs, or replacing Grey Hunters if you take Logan Grimnar. If you take them as a Terminator squad, make it 5 strong with a CML or Assault Cannon in a Drop Pod and keep them as cheap as possible. Combi-weapons are a must, but the Power Weapons are largely fine. Since you can choose between Swords/Axe/Mace/whatever for free basically.

7. The Stomraven and Stormtalon? are available to some SM chapters per Death From The Skies, but SW aren't one of them. I won't speak to FW as many tournaments don't allow it so "competitively" they're a non-starter for a TAC list.


All that said, the visual of Vindicators leading Rhinos full of troops forward to break enemy lines while Drop Pods and Flyers come in from overhead is compelling. So you have to decide for yourself how you want to take your list. Taking a look at a list from a "competitive" angle is more about what is most consistently likely to happen and what you are most likely to have to have answers to, so if you want to use a unit feel free to disregard my comments if you so choose. I especially recommend that for the Wolf Lord since he's basically "you" on the table.