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I'm trying to come up with some Emperor rules. I recently found my ronin Emperor model, my friend has the Horus model and some chaos. We are thinking of recreating the battle aboard the vengeful spirit so I need some rules to do justice to the model. Obviously already have the Horus rules but I am struggling to come up with fitting Emperor ones. Anyone care to help?

Take the Horus statline from the first FW HH book, add +1 to each stat, then give him Mastery Level 4 and access to every power from the book.

He'd certainly be mastery level 4

Probably mastery level 6
Magnus I would rate as a 5 since he is described in the book A Thousand Sons as a supreme psyker who can eclipse entire companies of his entirely psykic legion.
And then there is the big E whose mental brilliance can blind people across star systems if he doesn't reign that gak in.
I know that it's just one of the heresy books and I haven't read the other ones but the Emperor seems truly divine in all his appearances, it's like there is absolutely nothing his powers cant accomplish. So that's why I think he should be mastery level six, a level 4 is as powerful as Ahrimann and Eldrad and that just doesn't seem to do him justice.

Level 7, but he's got to take all his powers from the same chart. The idea being, the emperor doesn't half ass it: whatever he does, he does perfectly. (An emperor with Iron Arm, Lightning Reflexes, FNP, all his opponents are -1 Toughness and Strength... that's evil.)

I think I will make him mastery level 6 but he knows all of the powers in his chosen category. Probably WS9 Bs7 S7 T6 W6 I8 A6 LD10 sort of thing. Il have to come up with some decent special rules and equipment.

BaconUprising wrote:
I think I will make him mastery level 6 but he knows all of the powers in his chosen category. Probably WS9 Bs7 S7 T6 W6 I8 A6 LD10 sort of thing. Il have to come up with some decent special rules and equipment.

Doesn't really seem like the stat line of a guy who was getting strangled to death by an unnamed ork.

Well he was probably exhausted from years of campaigning and fighting before he was choked by that Ork.

No Mastery Level 5+ either. He would be 4, but perhaps have his own Psychic tree with awesome powers.

Is it that time of month again?

 XT-1984 wrote:
Well he was probably exhausted from years of campaigning and fighting before he was choked by that Ork.

No Mastery Level 5+ either. He would be 4, but perhaps have his own Psychic tree with awesome powers.

Why not more than 4+?
To reduce how often he can shoot perhaps? If that's the case, and it's probably a good idea to restrict his mastery level to keep him from nukeing half the board in one turn, you could give him a choice of four powers from every discipline at the start of the game. The big E does not get random powers, he gets exactly what he needs for that specific battle.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I think I will make him mastery level 6 but he knows all of the powers in his chosen category. Probably WS9 Bs7 S7 T6 W6 I8 A6 LD10 sort of thing. Il have to come up with some decent special rules and equipment.

Doesn't really seem like the stat line of a guy who was getting strangled to death by an unnamed ork.

The biggest single Ork in the galaxy whose death turned the tide of the great crusade entirely, going from the nascent imperium seeming like it was doomed to be crushed under the green tide, to the unprecedented conquest (until Macharius one upped them all) once the Orkish horde was broken.

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I think I will make him mastery level 6 but he knows all of the powers in his chosen category. Probably WS9 Bs7 S7 T6 W6 I8 A6 LD10 sort of thing. Il have to come up with some decent special rules and equipment.

Doesn't really seem like the stat line of a guy who was getting strangled to death by an unnamed ork.

The biggest single Ork in the galaxy whose death turned the tide of the great crusade entirely, going from the nascent imperium seeming like it was doomed to be crushed under the green tide, to the unprecedented conquest (until Macharius one upped them all) once the Orkish horde was broken.

Yeah the Emperor was probably the strongest being in the galaxy while he was alive. Tbh he should be 10 everything but that would just be silly...

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Doesn't really seem like the stat line of a guy who was getting strangled to death by an unnamed ork.

The biggest single Ork in the galaxy whose death turned the tide of the great crusade entirely, going from the nascent imperium seeming like it was doomed to be crushed under the green tide, to the unprecedented conquest (until Macharius one upped them all) once the Orkish horde was broken.

That was the retcon. In the original story, it was not a special ork.

Also in regards to the Emperor nuking a board with psychic powers, he was simply not capable of that. Find one, just one, example of him doing anything remotely like that.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Doesn't really seem like the stat line of a guy who was getting strangled to death by an unnamed ork.

The biggest single Ork in the galaxy whose death turned the tide of the great crusade entirely, going from the nascent imperium seeming like it was doomed to be crushed under the green tide, to the unprecedented conquest (until Macharius one upped them all) once the Orkish horde was broken.

That was the retcon. In the original story, it was not a special ork.

Also in regards to the Emperor nuking a board with psychic powers, he was simply not capable of that. Find one, just one, example of him doing anything remotely like that.

It's the new canon, deal with it.

And if the statements of having supernova level output are true then he should be able to simply blow up the board and make everyone lose.

Given that the Eldar have a supernova in a spear, I don't see it as being all that implausible.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Doesn't really seem like the stat line of a guy who was getting strangled to death by an unnamed ork.

The biggest single Ork in the galaxy whose death turned the tide of the great crusade entirely, going from the nascent imperium seeming like it was doomed to be crushed under the green tide, to the unprecedented conquest (until Macharius one upped them all) once the Orkish horde was broken.

That was the retcon. In the original story, it was not a special ork.

Also in regards to the Emperor nuking a board with psychic powers, he was simply not capable of that. Find one, just one, example of him doing anything remotely like that.

To be blunt here, are you suggesting the emperor was weak?

BaconUprising wrote:

To be blunt here, are you suggesting the emperor was weak?

I'm suggesting he wasn't the walking nuclear device the OP and many others throughout this thread have suggested based on the events of his life.

Scientific genius, super human strength and toughness (but sub-giant monster in both), mediocre telepathic abilities relative to the setting: those are the attributes that can be assigned to him.

No planet killing mind bullets, no shrugging off super heavy killing weaponry. More powerful than me and you? Certainly. Physical god, no freaking way. He simply wasn't. There's utterly no evidence for it.

Mere alpha plus level psykers can essentialy do Exterminatus. Ulkair could eat an entire subsetor. Empy is more powerful than either.

 Kain wrote:
Mere alpha plus level psykers can essentialy do Exterminatus. Ulkair could eat an entire subsetor. Empy is more powerful than either.

Citation Needed.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Mere alpha plus level psykers can essentialy do Exterminatus. Ulkair could eat an entire subsetor. Empy is more powerful than either.

Citation Needed.

Ulkair's mere freedom was tearing aurelia apart and he was seriously believed to be able to plunge the entire subsector into Nurgle's garden as per Chaos Rising. Alpha plus psykers like the Caco Dominus mind controlled thousands of star systems and the backlash of their death killed untold billions.

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Mere alpha plus level psykers can essentialy do Exterminatus. Ulkair could eat an entire subsetor. Empy is more powerful than either.

Citation Needed.

Ulkair's mere freedom was tearing aurelia apart and he was seriously believed to be able to plunge the entire subsector into Nurgle's garden as per Chaos Rising. Alpha plus psykers like the Caco Dominus mind controlled thousands of star systems and the backlash of their death killed untold billions.

He's right. The emperor is the most powerful pysker ever and other psykers have done these things before. The fact that he didn't destroy all life on a planet in one massive psychic attack is not an indicator that he can't do it but rather shows his self restraint. With a one word psychic command he made the entire 150,000 strong Word Bearers legion kneel. The whole point of the Great Crusade was to hold an empire, not endless, lifeless worlds.

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Mere alpha plus level psykers can essentialy do Exterminatus. Ulkair could eat an entire subsetor. Empy is more powerful than either.

Citation Needed.

Ulkair's mere freedom was tearing aurelia apart and he was seriously believed to be able to plunge the entire subsector into Nurgle's garden as per Chaos Rising. Alpha plus psykers like the Caco Dominus mind controlled thousands of star systems and the backlash of their death killed untold billions.

And what does any of that have to do with what the Emperor was capable of. You need to cite that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:
The emperor is the most powerful pysker ever and other psykers have done these things before. The fact that he didn't destroy all life on a planet in one massive psychic attack is not an indicator that he can't do it but rather shows his self restraint. With a one word psychic command he made the entire 150,000 strong Word Bearers legion kneel. The whole point of the Great Crusade was to hold an empire, not endless, lifeless worlds.

Not even the Emperor claimed he could do any such thing. Only his worshippers, who, as you may not recall, he disagreed with.

Also, he made Lorgar kneel. Lorgar made the Word Bearers kneel. This is explicit within The First Heretic.

Seriously, find some actual evidence of his galactic mind bullets or whatever it is you're proposing he had.

Does the fact that he obliterated Horus the One who had backing from ALL of the chaos gods ? With his mind Remember

He killed one guy. We have evidence he can kill one guy with his mind bullets.

We also have evidence that guy got stabbed by a crippled zombie. So the Emperor's super mind bullets are at least somewhat better than a crippled zombie with a sword.

The Emperor, a man of science, would wish you used some empirical evidence when deciding what he was capable of.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Mere alpha plus level psykers can essentialy do Exterminatus. Ulkair could eat an entire subsetor. Empy is more powerful than either.

Citation Needed.

Ulkair's mere freedom was tearing aurelia apart and he was seriously believed to be able to plunge the entire subsector into Nurgle's garden as per Chaos Rising. Alpha plus psykers like the Caco Dominus mind controlled thousands of star systems and the backlash of their death killed untold billions.

And what does any of that have to do with what the Emperor was capable of. You need to cite that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:
The emperor is the most powerful pysker ever and other psykers have done these things before. The fact that he didn't destroy all life on a planet in one massive psychic attack is not an indicator that he can't do it but rather shows his self restraint. With a one word psychic command he made the entire 150,000 strong Word Bearers legion kneel. The whole point of the Great Crusade was to hold an empire, not endless, lifeless worlds.

Not even the Emperor claimed he could do any such thing. Only his worshippers, who, as you may not recall, he disagreed with.

Also, he made Lorgar kneel. Lorgar made the Word Bearers kneel. This is explicit within The First Heretic.

Seriously, find some actual evidence of his galactic mind bullets or whatever it is you're proposing he had.

No the Emperor commands them to kneel not Lorgar.

A Thousand Sons, page 143
"The Primarch of the Thousand Sons drew back his arm and loosed a stream of blue fire that struck the nearest Titan square in the chest.
The alien engine was an artfully designed war machine from an age long forgotten, the ancient craft of its makers wondrous to behold, but it could not resist such incredible, awe-inspiring power. Its torso exploded, vast ribs of unknown manufacture shattering like brittle china and falling in fire-blackened splinters. The pendulous head toppled from its neck and crashed to the rocks far below."

There you go, a cited example of Magnus the Red blasting apart an Eldar Titan, it does not specify which kind since the space marines were not familiar with the specific designations of Eldar war machines but this thing was clearly larger than a wraithlord and managed to destroy three landraiders in one volley. Granted that it's shields had already taken some punishment from lascannons but Magnus was clearly capable of dishing out shots strong enough to crush its last shields and blow it apart. If he could easily brush aside Titans imagine what the Emperor could do.

I realize my quote doesn't directly show the Emperor displaying nuclear psychic powers but this is the only heresy book I have and a comparison is the best I can do.

1. Emperor made the Word Bearers kneel
2. Emperor mind zapped the super-buffed Horus (bear in mind that normal Horus was the one stabbed, by a man who had been heavily gifted by Chaos, with a blade of incredible power, by the direct will of the Chaos Gods)
3. Emperor is cited in multiple places as the most powerful psyker, ever. See above for multiple examples of crazy powerful psykers doing amazing things, the Empy is stronger.
4. Emperor has maintained Golden Throne for 10,000 years, a device that turned the Sigilite, a very powerful psyker (perhaps 2nd) into ashes.
5. Powerful enough to change his own size at will. Yes, he was born and is a man. So basically he's an IG-level statline, in Termi armor, who gets to cast Iron Arm as many times as he wants to.

Now, lets look at Ahriman, a level 4 psker. Emperor clearly out matches, deserves to be Level 5+. (6, with three powers sounds good to me). He should also be able to select these powers as he sees fit.

I can also recall a Psyker tearing a titan in half with his mind like it was the simplest thing ever either in Ravenor or in the Eisenhorn series. The Emperor would at least be able to do that.

An Eldar Farseer also burnt out the minds of over a dozen zoanthropes simultaneously, and mind you a dozen zoanthropes could probably turn a Titan into a pile of scrap metal.

The Emperor is stronger than that.

Veldoran can cause large hordes of Chaos Space Marines to instantly turn inside out with his mind. The Emperor is stronger than that.

Alpha Plus psykers have used entire cities or planets as puppets or tore open massive warp rifts that allowed for colossal incursions from the immaterium. The Emperor is stronger than that.

Draigo has handed out many humiliating defeats to Chaos within the warp itself. The Emperor is stronger than that.

You guys really don't understand what empirical evidence is, do you?

You don't get to say what one psyker did then say the Emperor must therefore be able to do that and more. He can only do what he was shown to do.

He is explicitly stated to be the most powerful human parker ever, and as Eldrad is his lesser power wise, he is also above any Eldar psyker.

In After Desh'ea, Khârn recalls a battle, were the Emperor wielded the power of a small star in his hand.

Don’t know if that means he can actually use the power of a star, or that it simply allows him to use his hand as an improvised plasma gun .