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Hey guys, I'm betting some money against a tyranid player for a best of 3 match. I know people think Tyranids are super easy to beat but My friend is good. I mean darn good. He relies heavily on the Doom, surprise assaults from Ymargls and deep striking his Trygon Prime so his infantry can come out of the hole. He leaves half his army behind to foot slog it as Tervigons and some flying tyrants (not really foot slogging I guess). Our first match is 1000 points and then one or two more at 1500.

My thousand point army is:

Rune Priest

5 Wolf Guard with term armor, combi flamers and a wolf claw and a drop pod

2 groups of 7 grey hunters, one with a wolf standard and both with flamers and rhinos.

1 group of six hunters with a standard and a razorback with a heavy bolter

2 squads of 4 long fangs. Each with a seargeant, 2 heavy bolters and a plasma cannon.

1000 points.

I know my opponent will not have any monsterous creatures in 1000 point list so missle fangs seem less necessary. I like the termies but but I don't know if I need them in front of my units for this match and I don't know if I want them dropping in early with a drop pod so I may drop those. I feel like it will just allow them to snag first blood but I'm not sure. What do you guys think? What would you take instead?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Rune Priest would be using Prescience on the long fangs or would be in a group of hunters to use murderous hurricaine on those big groups of gaunts and stealers

If you are playing for money, I suggest getting an umpire.

The key to taking care of a list like this is moving into there deployment zone while killing there big stuff. Long Fangs, Runepriest with Jaws, and I have used Thunderwolf Cavalry against lists like that to great affect. However, for what you have, I would give the Terminators a Thunder Hammer, or two, the combi-flamers are good I suppose, but I don't personally use them, they'll be good for getting rid of the little stuff quick though. I also would take them out of the drop pod. If in fact he is getting close enough for first blood, you will need them fast, not a turn later when they might come in where you want.

The way I deal with Ymgrals is just set up a bait and switch. Layer some of your troops so they come in behind one and you can hit with unit in the back with the other. I have often used a unit of Wolf Guard Terminators and a Lone Wolf for the job, or even just GH. Then you can blow them to pieces with the big guns or smash them aside in combat.

The Trygon Prime is a huge pain, and your best way to take it out is either going to be just shooting to pieces, or getting an assault on it with your strong unit, while the GH/LF take out the Gants coming from the hole. Drop the plasma cannons on the LF though, get a lascannon, I personally just dont like them.

Regarding vehicles, most of the time they are ideal for defense against these lists, but I rarely use Rhinos or Razorbacks. I prefer footslogging, and I think it will be better off when the Gants start arriving and the Ymgarls sneak up. Plus you will be able to set up a shooting front with the Terminators close by to get the big stuff out of the way. With the points not used on vehicles, you can get more WG, or a Lone Wolf, and some more LF.

As a player of both Wolves and nids, I would say don't even bother with putting your Long Fangs in or near area terrain. Tyranids have only two shooting attacks that can ignore MEQ, and they're 12" range. It also doesn't sound like he'll be fielding a Carnifex or Lictors. Then again, if he's fielding Lictors, you've probably already won.

Watch out for Tervigons in low point games... they're absolutely devastating. That possibility alone would make me want to take a 6-group of missile Fangs. And others might disagree with me here, but Plasma Cannons just aren't worth it if you know you're going against Tyranids. Literally only two things in their entire army list have 2+ armor, everything else with heavy armor is 3+. Thus Krak missiles and Heavy Bolters are a great choice for your LF.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:Regarding vehicles, most of the time they are ideal for defense against these lists, but I rarely use Rhinos or Razorbacks. I prefer footslogging, and I think it will be better off when the Gants start arriving and the Ymgarls sneak up. Plus you will be able to set up a shooting front with the Terminators close by to get the big stuff out of the way. With the points not used on vehicles, you can get more WG, or a Lone Wolf, and some more LF.

Totally agree. Dropping the vehicles and relying on either more LF or more Hunters (I love Grey Hunters so much) is probably your best bet.
Don't put the Termies in a drop pod. They're too expensive for that. Regular Wolf Guard with combi-flamers would be great in a drop pod, but only like 3-4, and only if you're totally willing to throw them away. Depending on what he fields you could wipe out a ton of models very quickly with this... or you could lose them all with little to no gain. Probably too much of a gamble for a low point game.

Might be over-simplifying things, but the most straightforward approach would be lots of hunters to deal with Light/Medium Infantry (Gaunts, Warriors, Stealers), LFs with Heavy Bolters and either Missiles or Lascannons to deal with the MCs, and your Termies to clean up anything that starts breaking your lines. Are the games going to be rolled for?

Also, the second poster is absolutely correct - get yourself a ref that is very familiar with the mainbook rules, both codices, and all applicable FAQs. A game for money will inevitably devolve into rules clarification arguments. I only play casual games with friends, and we always run into unclear areas regarding the rules, so I can only imagine what it will be like in a super serious game.

Tzadakim wrote:
And others might disagree with me here, but Plasma Cannons just aren't worth it if you know you're going against Tyranids. Literally only two things in their entire army list have 2+ armor, everything else with heavy armor is 3+. Thus Krak missiles and Heavy Bolters are a great choice for your LF.

I agree. You're going to want lots of heavy bolters to deal with his hordes and to provide overwatch when you get charged. The plasma cannon does nothing for you that can't be done better with a krak missile. Missile launchers are going to be great for you because you can use the krak missiles against his big beasties, but still have the option to use frags against hordes of gaunts. So my advice is, ditch the razorback and the plasma cannon, get more long fangs with missile launchers and heavy bolters.

Also...I'm not a fan of your terminators. Not for this game anyway. Their 2+ armor doesn't really provide much benefit to you for how much you're paying. It would be better to get another Rune Priest with Jaws AND a chooser of the slain to keep his infiltrators away. JotWW is the perfect answer to big nasties like Tervigons.

Might be over-simplifying things, but the most straightforward approach would be lots of hunters to deal with Light/Medium Infantry (Gaunts, Warriors, Stealers), LFs with Heavy Bolters and either Missiles or Lascannons to deal with the MCs, and your Termies to clean up anything that starts breaking your lines. Are the games going to be rolled for?

This is good advice too. Is there any reason NOT to take 10 man squads of Grey Hunters? If it was me, I'd be rolling with a minimum of 30 grey hunters.

Also, the second poster is absolutely correct - get yourself a ref that is very familiar with the mainbook rules, both codices, and all applicable FAQs. A game for money will inevitably devolve into rules clarification arguments. I only play casual games with friends, and we always run into unclear areas regarding the rules, so I can only imagine what it will be like in a super serious game.

+1. I have never played a game of 40K that was worth losing friends over. Be safe and get a good ref.

Grugknuckle just posted a fantastic list for the game you're describing. Personally, I love running 5 HBs and 5 MLs for my LFs. And since you know it's going to be nids, 2 flamers in the GH squads is a great idea - cheap and super effective. I forgot to mention it before, but Wolves are really good at moving forward and always shooting, but letting the enemy assault. That way you get your delicious 8 bolter 2 flamer overwatch (which will melt 'stealers and gaunts, might even stop a charge), AND still get the extra attack from Counterattack. Wait until you're in a serious assault and, if it's the opponent's turn, activate your wolf standards for maximum death. A1 + Counterattack + 2 CC weapons + Wolf Standard is FOUR attacks per GH, and that's when you're getting assaulted. If you can manage to clean up in one round of combat, you're right back to laying down bolter fire on your turn.

Chooser is a great choice if you can remember to use it. Personally, I always forget. But that extra 10 points might even go well toward a second chooser if he's running regular Genestealers. Denied infiltration is really frustrating

Biggest caveat to that list is making sure the Missile Launcher LFs stay safe, and keeping the Rune Priests safe from SitW. Your absolute biggest issue would be from a Trygon or flying HT... but either one seems unlikely in a 1000 point game.

Also...I'm not a fan of your terminators. Not for this game anyway. Their 2+ armor doesn't really provide much benefit to you for how much you're paying.

I didn't want to say anything before, but I definitely agree with this. I don't own a single Terminator because... well, honestly I've never thought their points cost was worth the 2+ save. This is just my bad luck talking, but I don't like relying on that 5/6 chance. I've seen way too many games lost because people think their termies are invincible, and then they roll one or two more 1s than they anticipated, and that changes everything. Just feels way too reliant on luck than strategy, to me.

And yeah, Jaws is the perfect solution for Tervigons. 2/3 times, they're gone (Initiative check for them means 3+ failure). Hell, I've been wary of Jaws since my first game against SW - I lost my HT turn 1 to a super unlucky 6 on my Initiative check. Epic fail.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:
The key to taking care of a list like this is moving into there deployment zone while killing there big stuff.

As a Tyranid player, I get visibly excited when an opponent moves his models closer to mine for any reason. Regardless of what they are.