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Since I love the new Tau models, I was starting to look at what support I could offer my Orks from them as an Ally... which obviously transcended into me looking at all the available Allies of Convenience. Which leaves me with 4 options...
Necrons
Tau
CSM Death Korps Assault List (IA12)
I would go regular guard, but there are no models I really like, which is half the point of running allies.
The beauty of these allies for Orks is they all have the capability of making up for some of the weaknesses of the codex:
1) Ranged Anti-Tank
2) AP 3 or less
3) Durable objective campers
Most Ork lists I run tend to be of the "get in your face" variety. As of right now my two standbys are:
1) MSU Warbikers, which involves Wazdakka with 4-6 units of 3 or 5 bikers
2) Battlewagon blitz, with 3 units of 20 boys, 3 Battlewagons to hold them, and a KFF Mek to make sure I can get to the enemy lines.
Both styles are usually fleshed out with some combination of Nob Bikers, Dakkajets, or Lootaz. Generally the goal is to get in close range, shoot a bunch at short range, and assault anything squishy.
With that in mind, here are my 4 ideas for allied forces:
Tau Cadre Fireblade
12x Fire Warriors
3x XV88 Broadsides w/ Heavy Rail Rifles, Plasma Rifiles, Early Warning Override and 6x Shield Drones
Aegis Defence Line w/ Quad Gun
The goal here is to jetpack the XV88s around and take shots at tanks, while camping the Fire Warriors & Fireblade behind the Aegis on an objective.
Death Korps Quartermaster Cadre w/ 4 Servitors
Grenadier Storm Squad with 2x Plasma Guns and Power Fist/Laspistol Watchmaster
Leman Russ Command Tank with Battle Cannon
3x Colossus Bombards
Throw the Storm squad in terrain/on an objective with the Quartermaster Cadre for camping and AP3 shooting, and the Leman Russ and Bombards go in opposite corners to shell the field with S8 AP3 and S6 AP3 Ignores Cover Barrage.
Necrons Necron Overlord w/ Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Command Barge
5x Warriors in a Night Scythe
5x Warriors in a Night Scythe
Annihilation Barge
These guys would be T5 3+ FNP Objective Squatters with the oh-so-delicious cheese of the Heldrake. I'm considering Oblits but they seem a bit expensive with the lack of a 5++ save...
Anyway, these are my options... Any opinions on which is best? Potential improvements? Thought? Concerns?
Is there a point limit you're thinking of on this or just whatever on the suggestions?
Your suggestions for Necrons don't really provide you much in terms of AT nor AP3.
While the Overlord in a CCB is nice and powerful, it feels a bit too costly (205) for an allied leader. I would be more tempted to run Illuminor Szeras due to him being a destrutek with an eldritch lance himself and enhances a unit of warriors or immortals (BS, S, or T depending on die roll). This would also strengthen the durability of an objective camper. He's not as durable than an Overlord in a CCB; however, only costs 100 points and provides a 36" S9 AP1 weapon.
Annihilation Barges are amazing. Pairing that with the Night Scythes (and hopefully a Dakkajet) will provide you more than enough AI to take out an enemy's scoring units.
Two units you may want to look at as possible options for the 3 things you're hoping to address is Scarabs and Destroyers (regular and heavies). Scarabs are great and tying up units. I had a friend lose a riptide to one due to him failing 1 save (and thus losing all saves going forward due to Entropic Strike). Also, they eat away at AV points which makes your boys and AA more able to take out tanks if needed. Alternatively, Destroyers are Jump Infantry with an 24" S5 AP3 Assault 2 Gauss weapon with Preferred Enemy (Everything). Likewise, Heavy Destroyers have a 36" S9 AP2 Assault 1 Gauss Weapon with PE (Everything) as well. Both are mean when it comes to hitting and killing things. MEQ, Wraithguard, tanks, they are fantastic at it; however, they are expensive.
I haven't played Necrons as allies yet (just main detachments); however, with the 3 goals that you're looking to accomplish via allies, the above would be my suggestions to help you address them.
I've always looked at Necrons as a great ally for Orks for a number of reasons;
>You can easily convert them to 'looted crons' ~ allies are stupid, but Orks using looted kit are not!
>Their statline is similar (strong, tough, slow)
>Heavy Destroyers give you fantastic anti-tank
>Theres that crazy HQ dude who makes it night fighting and zaps everything with thunderbolts ~ Model him as a Kommando Boss and fluff the thunderbolts as "sneaky traps" (whats this? My Snikrot model now has a use?)
>Royal Court can make for a damn good "Nob" unit
I am going with Imperial Guard. I am in the process of coverting Grechin with lasguns and guard helmets and a Commisar Grot with a Cap and Cloak. Then using my Looted Wagons with Boomguns as actual Leman Russes.
GUO of indestructability supported by orky horde is fun, even if you do have to worry about them stalling each other out if they stand too close..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ork/DE is also a pretty brutal mix, though i'm getting a real urge to do Orky DE...
Looted DE skiffs. Ravager with Zapp gunz or Kannon where the DL go..
And pirate hats all round
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/25 00:21:46
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
Dakkamite wrote: I've always looked at Necrons as a great ally for Orks for a number of reasons;
>You can easily convert them to 'looted crons' ~ allies are stupid, but Orks using looted kit are not!
>Their statline is similar (strong, tough, slow)
>Heavy Destroyers give you fantastic anti-tank
>Theres that crazy HQ dude who makes it night fighting and zaps everything with thunderbolts ~ Model him as a Kommando Boss and fluff the thunderbolts as "sneaky traps" (whats this? My Snikrot model now has a use?)
>Royal Court can make for a damn good "Nob" unit
I loved imotekh til they ruled he now hits the orks.
Unholyllama wrote:Is there a point limit you're thinking of on this or just whatever on the suggestions?
Your suggestions for Necrons don't really provide you much in terms of AT nor AP3.
While the Overlord in a CCB is nice and powerful, it feels a bit too costly (205) for an allied leader. I would be more tempted to run Illuminor Szeras due to him being a destrutek with an eldritch lance himself and enhances a unit of warriors or immortals (BS, S, or T depending on die roll). This would also strengthen the durability of an objective camper. He's not as durable than an Overlord in a CCB; however, only costs 100 points and provides a 36" S9 AP1 weapon.
Annihilation Barges are amazing. Pairing that with the Night Scythes (and hopefully a Dakkajet) will provide you more than enough AI to take out an enemy's scoring units.
Two units you may want to look at as possible options for the 3 things you're hoping to address is Scarabs and Destroyers (regular and heavies). Scarabs are great and tying up units. I had a friend lose a riptide to one due to him failing 1 save (and thus losing all saves going forward due to Entropic Strike). Also, they eat away at AV points which makes your boys and AA more able to take out tanks if needed. Alternatively, Destroyers are Jump Infantry with an 24" S5 AP3 Assault 2 Gauss weapon with Preferred Enemy (Everything). Likewise, Heavy Destroyers have a 36" S9 AP2 Assault 1 Gauss Weapon with PE (Everything) as well. Both are mean when it comes to hitting and killing things. MEQ, Wraithguard, tanks, they are fantastic at it; however, they are expensive.
I haven't played Necrons as allies yet (just main detachments); however, with the 3 goals that you're looking to accomplish via allies, the above would be my suggestions to help you address them.
Generally I would be looking at 2000 points or 2500 for the total. I like running 1500 for my orks, and I figure with an allied force adding either 500-1000 in Allies would be fine. I checked out some of the named characters, but I liked the Chariot lord. Having him with a Warscythe allows for some potent sweep attacks, and I like having another CC monster around.
I was really looking at the Heavy Destroyers as well. They were ridiculously good in 5th, but I never see anybody running them in 6th. Have you run with them lately? They seem like they could be fun. And if I took a unit of 3, I may consider running them with a Destroyer Lord as well, which is another cheap HQ option.
General_Chaos wrote:I am going with Imperial Guard. I am in the process of coverting Grechin with lasguns and guard helmets and a Commisar Grot with a Cap and Cloak. Then using my Looted Wagons with Boomguns as actual Leman Russes.
Guard is fun, have you seen the Basicks soviet grots? I was considering using them for my Krieg allies for artillery crew.
GUO of indestructability supported by orky horde is fun, even if you do have to worry about them stalling each other out if they stand too close..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ork/DE is also a pretty brutal mix, though i'm getting a real urge to do Orky DE...
Looted DE skiffs. Ravager with Zapp gunz or Kannon where the DL go..
And pirate hats all round
I haven't considered any of the Desperate allies yet... I don't like the risks that are associated with them. And it opens up my pocketbook too much, since I would want to make so many lists...
I like your CSM Troop choice but I'd still pick Oblits for their behind-enemy-lines ability. The synergy between a full court press Ork list with Oblits who can pop any transport BEFORE the boyz get there is too much to pass up. They could also destroy any Long Fangs/ADL operators.
If you are thinking of Tau I would suggest a couple things.....
Broadsides dont JSJ, they are too powerful to let them do that, also if you play "in your face" lists then i would recommend,
go with crisis commander and kroot for your must haves. and go with fully kitted our crisis(also body guards if you have the points since they would be a serperate unit but count as par of your HQ) instead of broadsides because they can be used for anti anything much easier than railsides. If you have problems with vehicles then give them fusion, if you have issues with hoardes go BC or flamer and anything else will die to plasma. Maybe even give the commander the ability to not shoot and give them the no cover + twinlinked ability. If you give each crisis 2 guns(instead of TLing them) then you'd have each crisis with 2 TLed weapons which can be quite a bit of fire power.
Now if you've got kroot and lots of crisis then you can bring them ALL in from reserve all the way across the board through outflank or deepstrike. That way they can for sure help out all your orks that are closing in rather than sitting at the back of the board where they are probably out of range or out of LoS.
I would also recommend that if you play a list like this then you should put your objective closer to mid table or even in their deployment since thats where you will be.
My 2 cents as a Tau player, hope it helps
Tyranids will consume the universe!!! There is no chance for survival!!
.........eventually anyways.........
PipeAlley wrote:I like your CSM Troop choice but I'd still pick Oblits for their behind-enemy-lines ability. The synergy between a full court press Ork list with Oblits who can pop any transport BEFORE the boyz get there is too much to pass up. They could also destroy any Long Fangs/ADL operators.
I keep looking at Oblits, but I just keep feeling underwhelmed by them. I know they were a mainstay in 5th, but are they really that good at the long range support? Or are they more worthwhile to place closer to midfield and start rocking from there to get the MM/AC shots?
Wolfnid420 wrote:If you are thinking of Tau I would suggest a couple things.....
Broadsides dont JSJ, they are too powerful to let them do that, also if you play "in your face" lists then i would recommend,
go with crisis commander and kroot for your must haves. and go with fully kitted our crisis(also body guards if you have the points since they would be a serperate unit but count as par of your HQ) instead of broadsides because they can be used for anti anything much easier than railsides. If you have problems with vehicles then give them fusion, if you have issues with hoardes go BC or flamer and anything else will die to plasma. Maybe even give the commander the ability to not shoot and give them the no cover + twinlinked ability. If you give each crisis 2 guns(instead of TLing them) then you'd have each crisis with 2 TLed weapons which can be quite a bit of fire power.
Now if you've got kroot and lots of crisis then you can bring them ALL in from reserve all the way across the board through outflank or deepstrike. That way they can for sure help out all your orks that are closing in rather than sitting at the back of the board where they are probably out of range or out of LoS.
I would also recommend that if you play a list like this then you should put your objective closer to mid table or even in their deployment since thats where you will be.
My 2 cents as a Tau player, hope it helps
I DO really like Crisis suits, but I don't know if they offer the range I am looking for. Broadsides can stay in the backline and support themselves really well. 60" range is quite a thing. With the Crisis suits I feel I would need to be a lot closer, which would require running up with my Orks, or deepstriking, which would cause me to lose at least one turn of shooting with them. They are definitely more versatile, but the ability to crack transports and other heavily armoured targets on T1 is something that really fills a hole in an all-in Ork list.
Because of the old Stormboyz of Khorne, I've always wanted to do an Ork army with a side of Khorne.
DA Terminators led by Belial can also really screw with people. Through Deathwing Assault, they can choose whether they want to Deep Strike at the beginning of either their first or second turn. Due to their Vengeful Strike, on the turn they deep strike in all of their weapons are considered to be twin-linked. By attaching Belial, when they arrive the squad won't scatter. If you take a DW Command Squad instead of a regular termie squad one of the 5 can be upgraded to an Apothecary for FNP decreasing the chance of the squad you just dumped into their backyard of going to paste that same turn.
Neither of these will give the S10, AP1 attacks we all wish Orks had access to with out Allies, but they're both fun ways to mess with you opponent.
If you're taking the CSM allies for objective holders, I think typhus with a bunch of zombies would probably be a better option, since you're spending an assload of points for plague marines. As someone who plays with PM, not an ork player, I can say that I've found their best use is aggressively taking points in the midfield. Or you could take normal cultists with a Dark Apostle, have 2 15/20 man units of those
A Dark Apostle, 2 twenty man units of cultists, and a heldrake is only 455 points, allowing you to possibly work in obliterators, like pipe alley suggested.
Khorne CSM's and Orks fill very similar roles; while Khornate Daemons are Desperate Allies, so it's really hard to justify using that combination in a tourney, but I either have enough Khorne minis on my own or can borrow them for nostalgias (and varieties) sake once in a while if I feel so inclined.
OP, you mind posting up two sample lists for the MSU Bikers and BW Blitz? I've been using variations of both (with mixed success really) and would love to see how someone else does it
for the Tau one i really,really wouldnt run the cadre. An ethereal would be better since it also boosts the Broadside leadership and if youre feeling lucky his Zephyr's Grace affects the broadsides too, so you can turn 1 get them to the middle of the board and still snapfire. And middle of the board is the perfect place for 36" weapons.
Cadre costs 10pts more and really doesnt do -anything- unless he doesnt move, and face it hes going to move whether he wants to or not lol
Would be better if there was a funny gap in the wording saying friendly models are affected, but unfortunately it clarified "from this codex" lol. That would be funny to have an Ethereal walking around with a bunch of boyz giving them FNP or sprint and snap fire.
Ideally, buffmander (commander with all the support upgrades) attached to the broadsides. Giving them tank/monster hunter and ignores cover makes them even more killy (you CAN put the reroll to hits one on there if you want since the missile drones are not twinlinked but that'd be a pointfiller upgrade to me). However this guy can get expensive quick if you arent careful lol. A cheap buffmander is still around ~150pts on his own.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/29 00:01:38
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Spudlust wrote:If you're taking the CSM allies for objective holders, I think typhus with a bunch of zombies would probably be a better option, since you're spending an assload of points for plague marines. As someone who plays with PM, not an ork player, I can say that I've found their best use is aggressively taking points in the midfield. Or you could take normal cultists with a Dark Apostle, have 2 15/20 man units of those
A Dark Apostle, 2 twenty man units of cultists, and a heldrake is only 455 points, allowing you to possibly work in obliterators, like pipe alley suggested.
Yeah, the Plague Marines are a ton of points, but they are RIDICULOUSLY durable. Although I haven't looked too much into Zombies... not a bad idea. I feel they would do better with an Aegis though, whereas marines don't HAVE to be in cover to be useful. I definitely want to take Obliterators now though. I've worked them it, even though it makes my total points somewhere around 800 for the detachment. I will look into the Zombies though, and post some concepts/ideas. I haven't heard a lot of good things about the Dark Apostle though... Why do they make a better choice with the Cultists?
Here is my current concept for their detatchment:
Chaos Lord w/ Terminator Armor, Blight Grenades, LC, PF, MoN
Dakkamite wrote:OP, you mind posting up two sample lists for the MSU Bikers and BW Blitz? I've been using variations of both (with mixed success really) and would love to see how someone else does it
As some examples of two lists I threw together for a 2k point game with a friend, with DKoK Siege allies...
I ended up going with the Bike List vs. a DKOK Assault Regiment. He was running Grenediers in Chimeras, a Thunderer, a LRBT, a Platoon, CCS, 3x Rapiers, Colossus Bombard, and a Thunderbolt. I ended up taking the game decisively. The Warbike units ran up the field, and on T3 two nobs w/ 1 wound on each, who had their Warbike units blown away charged the Thunderer and LRBT wrecking both, which made things a lot easier for the rest of my units. He kept shelling my Mortars with the Bombard though, and they kept failing Pinning... Should've put the Commissar with them instead of the Engineers, who were manning the Quad Gun. BS4 TL would have been good enough, and the Mortars needed the LD boost.
Vineheart01 wrote:for the Tau one i really,really wouldnt run the cadre. An ethereal would be better since it also boosts the Broadside leadership and if youre feeling lucky his Zephyr's Grace affects the broadsides too, so you can turn 1 get them to the middle of the board and still snapfire. And middle of the board is the perfect place for 36" weapons.
Cadre costs 10pts more and really doesnt do -anything- unless he doesnt move, and face it hes going to move whether he wants to or not lol
Would be better if there was a funny gap in the wording saying friendly models are affected, but unfortunately it clarified "from this codex" lol. That would be funny to have an Ethereal walking around with a bunch of boyz giving them FNP or sprint and snap fire.
Ideally, buffmander (commander with all the support upgrades) attached to the broadsides. Giving them tank/monster hunter and ignores cover makes them even more killy (you CAN put the reroll to hits one on there if you want since the missile drones are not twinlinked but that'd be a pointfiller upgrade to me). However this guy can get expensive quick if you arent careful lol. A cheap buffmander is still around ~150pts on his own.
I actually liked the cheapness of the Fireblade, and when you're sticking a bunch of Fire Warriors behind an Aegis, it doesn't hurt to have an additional shot on all their Pulse Rifles. Also he mans a Quad Gun with a ton of accuracy. I do like the idea of the Buffmander though. I played a game against my buddy's Tau, and his Missles with Ignore Cover made some short work of my bikes, and cover saves are something that can actually stop Railguns from hurting. That would let me go the Kroot route for troops. I'll throw together some concepts this afternoon. I just don't know what Kroot can really offer Orks, compared to a bunch of Fire Warrior shots from the back field. Unless I place an objective in a forest...
i was thinking about going with the CSM allies for my orks and getting a few sets of wings.
DP w/ wings, power armor, black mace, and maybe other things
group of 10/20 cultists
Heldrake w/ bale flamer
This list coupled with my nob biker squad and a couple battlewagons will give the opponent too many high priority targets. If any of these get through the shooting of turn 1/2 it should be good game.
I have a Tau codex and fully intend on using it to get interceptor and use it to cover the backside of my Battlewagons from things coming in from reserves (When I finally get around to buying something from it).
I like Kroot with sniper rounds to but the devilfish could be another vehicle screening those wagons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/31 20:49:56
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
I initially got tau because of allied Broadsides, but thats kinda dead now. Ive been trying to find a way to ally them into Orks since the new dex fell into my hands but while many tactics seem viable, when i try them it just seems like im toying around.
Unfortunately i think its better to just go 60 boyz, no-name Big Mek for 35pts (maybe 60 so you have a second PK in a unit....maaayyyybe) and use them as a screen for the castle tau. Which sucks because i'd rather have orks be the main force.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Unless you take either of the big mek gubbinz, a warboss is always superior to the big mek. You simply get too much for those few points a warboss costs more than your nob with mek tools.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
The funny part is a Big Mek thats attempting to be a CC beast (PK/Attack Squig/Cybork Body) costs MORE than a Meganob boss and almost reaches Bikerboss costs lol once you factor in the SAG or KFF (Why you would have a SAG no idea in this situation lol)
EDIT: Heh...had a comical allies idea not sure if it would actually WORK but it would be funny.
Ally in some Tau for 5 Piranhas, slap a couple Meltas in there if you want. Bring 9 Warbuggies, some TL rokkits on some and Scorchas on others. Trukk spam with whats left.
AV10 EVERYWHERE lol it would sure catch your opponent off guard thats for sure.
EDIT2: Decided to list it, and actually it doesnt look that bad.
Spoiler:
Main force HQ: Meganob Boss w/ Attack Squig, BP, Cybork 130 KFF Mek w/ PK, Attack Squig, Cybork 135
Note: the assaulty KFF mek and the boarding plank was a point dump. Its too expensive to do this for 1500pts unless you want like no trukkboyz and i had ~80pts left over. 5 lootas arent going to do anything in this kind of list anyway The Kroot + Shadowsun was the only thing i could think of that could do something without either costing an arm and a leg or just be an Ethereal + minimum FW camping in the back hoping to not die. 20 snipers with rerolls of 1, not to mention her fusions, can be a big enough issue to let your vehicles get even closer.
Provided you get first turn, this is hilarious looking. Fast + Skimmer means the Piranhas turbo 18" and fly over everything so put them in the back to start with so your other "slower" things start on the starting line waiting for the green light to put the pedal to the metal rofl - i almost want to do this just so i have an excuse to make a giant traffic light post with a bright green LED light on it
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/09/02 12:29:35
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Rismonite wrote: I have a Tau codex and fully intend on using it to get interceptor and use it to cover the backside of my Battlewagons from things coming in from reserves (When I finally get around to buying something from it).
I like Kroot with sniper rounds to but the devilfish could be another vehicle screening those wagons.
Will a min squad of Fire Warriors in a Devilfish really be as effective as a maxed unit of Sniper Kroot though? I mean, I am assuming that you're taking the Disruption Pods on the Devilfish for the 4+ cover, and TL Smart Missiles because they're infinitely better than the Gun Drones... Which is approx 160 points, where a unit of 20 Kroot w/ sniper is 140.
It just seems like you'll get better mileage from the Kroot taking out dudes holding flamers...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, is there any reason to take 20 Kroot as opposed to 2 squads of 10? It seems to give no points savings, and you can split fire with 2x 10 instead...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/03 12:51:30
2 squads of 10 is a great idea. Theyre not fearless, unless youre doing something crazy like i did with the shadowsun and you want to boost them all theres no point in having 1 group of 20 vs 2 of 10. Blast 5 of them off the board, which isnt hard on their own, now they need a leadership test and they have crap leadership. Yes that number goes down to 3 with a unit of 10 but now it needs the shooting of at least 2 units to force both units to run away, instead of 1 unit getting lucky.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
Gubstop urlurk's big un! 7000 points(and growing!) 
