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Ok, so basically my problem is this. I'm planning out my first tattoo, and decided that I want to get my scottish clan crest on my chest, however my clan motto is "Commit thy work to God", and as someone who has declared themselves an atheist since the age of about 8, that doesn't sit too well from me on a principles standpoint. At the same time, I don't really like the idea of changing my family crest, so I came to the conclusion that translating the phrase into latin (like many clan mottos already are) would be a good move.

Unfortunately my Latin is rather rusty, having stopped my studies of it 3 years ago, and the best translation I could come up with was 'Teum Laborem Deum Committe'. Does anyone here have a better grasp of Latin than myself (not hard I'm sure), and the time to offer a more accurate and/or grammatically correct translation?

Silly question, but if it's your clan crest why not get it translated intro Scotch Gaelic?

purely because I prefer latin as a language, and understand at least a little of it. Gaelic would be just as valid, probably more so, but I can't speak nor understand any, and I'll be damned if I give myself a sore throat just trying to throw out that many consonants to tell someone what my tattoo says .

No problem, just thought I'd at least throw it out as a suggestion

No worries, it was a great idea, I'm just not too big a fan of Gaelic is all

Ehhhh... I know it's your tattoo, so what I'm about to say is just a suggestion as I don't know exactly *how* important the crest is to you. But if you're not going to substitute the phrase I would not bother putting it on at all, in any language.

It poses two problems -
1) anyone that can read the language will still be able to tell what it means, which circumvents the reason for doing it.
2) even in a different language, *YOU'LL* know what it means. Considering you're an atheist I could easily see the prospective tattoo-ee (not necessarily you) regretting including it later.

Personally I think something along the lines of, "Fidelitati te opus Dei." But then again, that's more along the lines of be committed to your works to God... but I think it fits better.

@SuperReady - That's why I want it in Latin, the majority of people that can read Latin are capable of either having an adult conversation about the matter of an atheist having 'commit thy work to god' on their arm, or understanding that it is just a family motto, not a direct representation of my own beliefs. That being said, people that can read Latin and are heavily religious could be doubly as annoying as those who can't read Latin if I had it in English.

@Alfndrate - I do like the sound of that, and assuming it's correct Latin, I might end up going with it if the translation for the original motto cannot be found.

 WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:
@SuperReady - That's why I want it in Latin, the majority of people that can read Latin are capable of either having an adult conversation about the matter of an atheist having 'commit thy work to god' on their arm, or understanding that it is just a family motto, not a direct representation of my own beliefs. That being said, people that can read Latin and are heavily religious could be doubly as annoying as those who can't read Latin if I had it in English.

@Alfndrate - I do like the sound of that, and assuming it's correct Latin, I might end up going with it if the translation for the original motto cannot be found.

Haha, it's the best I can do with what I remember. I haven't taken a Latin course in 7 years.

So my Latin is many years out of practice (and it wasn't very good to begin with) but I think "Committe opus Dei" should be "Commit your work to God". I may be killing the grammar, though.

Might I recommend seeking the liguistic advice of someone who claims to be fluent, and then a second person who also claims such?

Well, if things get really desperate, I can go talk to the latin teachers at my school, but their department is something I don't really visit very often.

The Translation to Latin is Revela Domino opera tua, though it seems to lack something ,its the most correct , i can try to figure a more pleasant version but anyone who can translate Latin would probably correct my pea poor grammer and commence a very long lecture on the use of verbs !!

and now out of bloody minded interest i'm digging out my gaelic
dictionary to translate the Sinclair motto

haha, nice detective work. though I guess it isn't too hard to figure out my surname from my clan motto.

Earb do obraich gu ruig a' Dia !!!! Yeah i would stick with Latin thats a bit of a mouthful (and probably dodgy on the grammar they have 3 different words for to )

Detective works easy when you just have to reach for a book of Highland clans from the shelf and search through motto's

yeah, that is a bit of a mouthful, and I don't think there's room on my chest for the tattoo that could hold that and still be legible.

looks like i'm going to have to go with Alfndrate's job of "Fidelitati te opus Dei"

"Fidelitati te opus Dei" sounds better and even the most hardened Latin teacher would be picking bones at the slight changing of the meaning

Perfect, now I just need to save up the £150 odd it will cost me to get this thing done. And that's just the black outline, with no colours :(

 Savagecoyote wrote:
"Fidelitati te opus Dei" sounds better and even the most hardened Latin teacher would be picking bones at the slight changing of the meaning

Agreed, but even the most hardened latin teachers could see the sort of poetry behind it. Nothing like using the word, "faithful" as a good synonym for commit

on a just barely related note, does anyone know roughly how big i could get the sinclair crest in black without any colour for £150, or how much it would cost to get it roughly 4 inches across?

that is a question only you're tattooist can answer i'm afraid (find a good one and take in the outline and ask them ) if your anywhere near Huddersfield may i recommend Bleeding Art (there the only one's my partner and i use)

I got A for O level Latin however that was 36 years ago. My daughter is doing it now but these modern schools don't use textbooks, so I have nothing to look up.

My feeling is you don't need Teum either grammatically or stylistically.

Google Translate gives different options depending on how you phrase the English input.

For example, the word "opus" means work, laborem means labour -- the sense is slightly different. Opus means more of a special work, like a great work or an artwork, while labor means general daily working. I think the sense of the motto is that your every work is dedicated to God, so I would go with labor, but that's something for you to think about.

You need to understand and express the conjugation of the verb. Is it a command? Use the imperative.

The big piece of advice is not to get the tattoo done until you are completely sure you have the right translation!

@Savagecoyote - I figured that would bee the case, I live near sevenoaks, and a friend of mine recommended Life Family to me, so I figured his recommendation might help me get the best price.

@Killkrazy - I know Fidelitati te Opus Dei isn't 100% perfect, but I love the poetic beauty of using faithful as a synonym for comitted, and I think using the imperative might detract from the peaceful nature of the crest in general.

 WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:
on a just barely related note, does anyone know roughly how big i could get the sinclair crest in black without any colour for £150, or how much it would cost to get it roughly 4 inches across?

In my experience they don't charge for size. They charge for time. And for obvious reasons don't go cheap on a tattoo or you may end up regretting it.

Romanes Eunt Domus.

"Hey, what does your tattoo say?"

Be prepared to answer that a lot

Yeah mate like others have said about telling others what it says, you will know what it means and before you get it, just ask yourself would you be happy looking at it every day as it is quite contraversal to your views.

I aint trying to stop you getting it haha but just wanted to say make sure you want this.

Sweet idea for a tat by the way.

Meh, I can live with explaining it, gives me the chance to make things clear, and I do love the sound of my own voice

As far as time goes, I have no idea how long it will take to do, but I don't think it should run too far past £100, at least I hope it doesn't. It could get awkward if they finish it, tell me how much I owe them, and I don't have enough...

How big is it, it depends on the detail as well, the one I go to and the other I am going to charge around 60-70 per hour.

not too detailed, just a belt surrounding a cockerel on a length of rope, with the text running round the belt. I was thinking about 4 inches across

Yeah it shouldnt be too much, just make sure you get a price first haha, if it is too much you could just get part of it done now and the rest later or something.

Be careful though, once you get one, youll want more.