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Hi all,

I played a 1750 tournament at the weekend and I'm trying to tweak my list to make it better.

I had a unit of combi plasma terminators in a drop pod with a wolf priest that just didnt do much all tournament. So I want to replace that unit with another. Stars of the show for me where the TWC unit.

Here is the list minus the last unit:

Rune Priest: CotS, TDA, Divination (mans ADL lascannon at BS5 prescienced)

Wolf Guard: all pack leaders in TDA.
2x combi melta with powerfist that go with drop melta GH
2x combi plasma power sword goes with foot GH plasma squads.
1x CML goes with Long Fangs
Drop pod with Deathwind to be dropped empty

Grey Hunters
10, 2x plasma, MotW
10, 2x plasma, MotW
5, Melta, Drop Pod
5, Melta, Drop Pod

TWC x 4 one upgraded to TH/SS, 3 naked

Long Fangs, 5 ML joined to RP with divination behind ADL

ADL, Icarus Lascannon

So this list leaves me with around 260 points left to spend of which I want to do it in one of two ways:

Option 1: Another squad of TWC same as above. These guys were the star of my list in all my games, they were amazing. Having 2 must be better right?
Option 2: A Rune Priest in Runic armour with LL and Jaws joined to another 5 ML long Fang squad. These guys could go up high in a building away from my ADL so that a single helldrake doesnt take out my entire long range firebase. Generally the long fangs were ok, but I sometimes struggled with LoS, and twice they got wiped out early by a helldrake. having 2 would give me better long range, but not sure it will be as effective as another TWC squad.

What do you guys think should be the better option?

To make your cav better I would suggest another ss so that the hammer guy isnt soaking up all the high strength and low ap shots, just a consideration. I would also vote for the extra cav unit.

Thanks for the reply!

I find my TWC die more to small arms fire than to high S weapons, so dont think the extra 30 pts on another SS is worth it. I tried it with 3 TWC and 2 SS but found that 4 TWC and 1 SS works better for only 20 pts more.

I agree that 8 TWC running at the enemy is a very scary prospect, but cant also stop thinking about a second long fang pack also. The 2nd rune priest could be put into a drop pod by himself too, would be great to set up a perfect first turn jaws down a deployment line against Necrons or Orks.

So tactically the throw away RP might be better against some match ups, but the 2nd TWC would not only look awesome, but overall might be better against most opponents.

I'm still open to ideas though, if anyone out there has a better way to spend +- 260 points on a unit or 2?? maybe another long fang pack, drop the babysitter wolf guard and put the big GH squads in rhinos and take a lone wolf? I'm really open to ideas here...

I would recommend putting the TH on one TWC and a SS on another, so you don't lose the hammer if you fail your invul save. I have been using Fen Wolves as a delivery pack and cover unit to get the twc in close, it works decently. And 15 of them are dirt cheap. A second LF pack cant be bad, just like a second TWC pack could be good. But like you said the TWC can get shot to gak before they really do anything by bolter fire. Long Fangs can sit back and take cracks at most things.

I've been testing two different units lately. The SotH WP and some termis loaded with plas and melta, and a TWLord with a Fen wolf escort.

Is the MotW better for you in the plas packs than running a standard?

End of Line

I'm not a big fan of the standard as I always forget to activate it until its too late, then by the 2nd turn of combat its lost a lot of its effectiveness. I prefer the MotW as it can turn a combat even if there are a lot less GH left in the squad.
TWC are awesome and I love the way they work as they are, just not sure that 2 will be doubly as good as 1 pack. 2 long fangs will help out with my biggest weakness in fliers, as having 12 missile shots is gonna scare even a helldrake. However I think its quite boring to play. The extra long fangs would ensure that I win most long range fights other than maybe against Eldar and Tau. I have the 2 melta pods to take out the big long range threats in most armies which means I should start winning the long range, plus they will be shooting my TWC to stop them getting close so my LF will be relatively untouched. on the other hand, with 2 big TWC threats, the likelihood is they will only be able to take 1 out and the other will run havoc and be safe in combat for the majority of the game.
Swings and roundabouts!!!

If you're not willing to make bigger changes to this list, then I think you should take another squad of TWC - just as you said above. However, I have some general comments about your list + strategy.

1) The Icarus Lascannon is twin linked. So there is no point in risking perils of the warp to give yourself re-rolls to hit with it. You probably knew that and meant to say that the RP is using 'Prescience' on the long fangs. Right?

2) I don't think you have enough Grey Hunters. Especially the ones coming down in pods. IMHO, it's better to have those pods come down with 10 GH's in it than to have a wolf guard with them. The reason is that 5 Grey Hunters + 1 TDA Wolf guard is actually LESS survivable than 10 Grey Hunters AND the 10 Hunters can have 2 meltaguns instead of just 1 meltagun and one combi. The 5 GH + WG is cheaper, but only by 27 points.

3) The Wolf Standard is a force multiplier and you should take them. They even multiply the effectiveness of your MotW! I read that you don't like Wolf Standards because you *forget to use them until it's too late*. My response to that is stop forgetting. That's something that you can actually control as opposed to, say, dice rolls.
Here's how you use your Wolf Standards ;

Melta + Drop Pod units
Drop down with your melta-squad and melt some armor just like you normally would. During *HIS* turn - pay attention. It will be obvious after his movement phase whether he intends to charge you or not. If it looks like he's going to charge you, pop your wolf standard and dare him to.

Plasma Units
Get right up in the face of an enemy terminator (2+ armor) unit. Rapid fire your dual plasmaguns and bolters. Then wait until his turn and repeat the above. Extra bonus here is that if he DOES charge you, you'll get to re-roll your 1's to-Hit during overwatch - meaning that you're not only more likely to hit, but you're also very unlikely to "Get Hot" with your plasmaguns.

Hi,

Since when has the Icarus Lascannon been twin linked? I know the Quad gun is, but the Icarus isnt in my rulebook... has it been FAQ'd?

I used to run 10 GH with 2 melta in pods and it was great. It did work well, but I found I needed a powerfist in there incase it was a dread I was trying to blow up. As the powerfist on a TDA WG is a LOT cheaper than on a GH, it works out a lot more benefical to run a smaller unit, however since I tried that I realised that krak grenades can help out that situation, so I might send them out again. Often I find that the 1 combi melta shot is not enough, and having 2 meltas would be a lot better. I'll give it a try again!

I hear what you are saying on wolf standards, they are great and I am more experienced with the army now than when I last tried them, maybe its time to dust them off and give them another try.

Thanks, all good points, will think on it.