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I've narrowed it down to only two factions, Protectorate of Menoth or Cygnar

Cygnar: Pros- I like shooting and i hear that's Cygnar's thing
Cons- They're "The Good Guys" and i don't like uncovered heads in an army (AKA i like helmets)

Protectorate of Menoth: Pros- Crazy Zealots with fire, cool looking, and comes in the two player battle box
Cons: I'm not sure how ill pull off the whole finesse thing and i prefer more guns than swords

Teach me oh wise and powerful Warmachine Veterans!

Menoth has really good shooting as well, and they can deny others from shooting at them

However since this forum seems to be a majority of Cygnar players, I wouldn't be surprised if your poll goes towards Cygnar

Well Cygnar does have quite a few helmeted squads. Stormblades, Trenchers (their eyes are uncovered), Stormlances and maybe stormguard?

Protectorate has rather good shooting these days. Not as many options as Cygnar, but enough to be brutally effective. In either faction you'll be taking a mix of swords and guns and need finesse. With Cygnar's pro reduced and protectorate's cons spread to both factions the scale tips decidedly in favor of protectorate for you. In general PoM is my suggestion for any new player who is indecisive since they offer many elements that are distinct to warmachine in their everyday abilities.

This is from a veteran Cygnar player so there is no faction bias going on. I wish I could welcome you to the royal blues but it doesn't seem like as good of a fit for you.

I wouldn't really call Protectorate a "Finesse" faction by any means. In fact of all the factions I'd probably say they're perhaps in 2nd place after Khador for being the least reliant on positional awareness & interplay of offensive abilities.

The Protectorate has a number of excellent ranged options, so don't worry about that if it's a significant concern. It should be noted, however, that the majority of said options are mounted on their jacks, and they tend to be more support weapons than heavy-lifters.

That's probably the best way to explain it, really. The Protectorate generally wants to be in melee, eventually, though they will usually spend some time shooting to soften up targets. Cygnar generally does the same, but they're going to be less inclined to mix it up in melee quite as quickly. I'd probably but it at 60/40 vs 40/60. That being said, in Warmachine in general, you don't tend to get lists that focus entirely on shooting. They happen, but it's rare.

Edit: Regarding finesse...

Protectorate doesn't require finesse in the sense of positional awareness, I'll agree. However, they very heavily depend on order-of-activation awareness. For some people, that barely comes up as an issue. For others, it's a huge headache. In either case, it's something to be aware of.

 Isthatagreengreyknight? wrote:
I've narrowed it down to only two factions, Protectorate of Menoth or Cygnar

Cygnar: Pros- I like shooting and i hear that's Cygnar's thing
Cons- They're "The Good Guys" and i don't like uncovered heads in an army (AKA i like helmets)

Protectorate of Menoth: Pros- Crazy Zealots with fire, cool looking, and comes in the two player battle box
Cons: I'm not sure how ill pull off the whole finesse thing and i prefer more guns than swords

Teach me oh wise and powerful Warmachine Veterans!

Both can shoot. Cygnar is about accurate firepower. Menoth is about AOEs and volume.

Good guys vs bad guys is all in your head. An argument can be made both ways for ALL factions.

Cygnar is finesse. Menoth is more brute strength

From what you listed above as your pro and cons I think you should go with menoth.

I am not going to vote because you shouldn't do what I tell you or any other fan-boys. You should get all the info and then man up and make your own decision.

Frankly though. The armies tend to be relatively inexpensive so it is easy and recommended to try out other factions later on. I currently have 5 that I can field armies for. and two main ones.

Chongara wrote:
I wouldn't really call Protectorate a "Finesse" faction by any means. In fact of all the factions I'd probably say they're perhaps in 2nd place after Khador for being the least reliant on positional awareness & interplay of offensive abilities.

Your words wound me good sir!

I play Cygnar and I say go with Menoth.

Both armies seem to be saturated on this forum so there will always be support so that is a wash.

Cygnar does indeed focus on shooting and that is both a bonus and downfall of Cygnar. If you are going to play Cygnar you might as well plan on playing Mercenaries as well because without the Merc. melee units Cygnar really has trouble filling that role (in faction) without putting support around said unit.

Menoth has the ability to do both and since the entire army focuses on supporting each other you really don't have a problem finding support for units.

Menoth fits your aesthetic wants much better and I always say play what looks cool because you are going to spend time painting those models. If you don't like the way they look you will have trouble sticking with it.

Any army you choose will be viable (except for maybe Minions) so don't worry about competitiveness. Menoth is certainly the easier faction to just pick and play because Cygnar really requires mindset focused on board control which is not easily learned in Warmachine.

Either way best of luck!

Menoth can do shooting as well, but they will rarely win the game with it. Kreoss Pop'n'drop with a Redeemer is one way.

Menite shooting is mostly a prelude to the eventual melee, and that's pretty true for Warmahordes in general as well. Cygnar can do a mostly shooty game better than others.


The whole Menoth Synergy deal is easy enough once you have played a while. This is the sort of game that will take time to get the hang of no matter your choice. Its not a point and click sort of deal regardless of faction.

You start small with the battlebox. Then add choir and learn their deal. Then add a Vassal and learn his deal. Add a unit of Errants and UA. Add Wracks and see what you can do with them. Add a heirophant...


Individual components aren't hard to learn, its meshing everything together and finding the more nebulous tactics that are tough. And thats true of any faction.

I just thought I'd throw this out, and the general consensus seems to be Menoth, i just wanted to thank you all for the advice as well as post a follow up question;

I'm looking to make a 'jack heavy army, could you recommend a (Menoth) War caster, specific jack types, and good supporting infantry that supports that playstyle?
Also, if you can, provide some uses for units from the two-player battlebox that would be appreciated as well, thanks!

 Isthatagreengreyknight? wrote:
I just thought I'd throw this out, and the general consensus seems to be Menoth, i just wanted to thank you all for the advice as well as post a follow up question;

I'm looking to make a 'jack heavy army, could you recommend a (Menoth) War caster, specific jack types, and good supporting infantry that supports that playstyle?
Also, if you can, provide some uses for units from the two-player battlebox that would be appreciated as well, thanks!

Most Warcasters in the protectorate can go pretty jack heavy (far more easily than most warcasters from other factions), so that's not too much of a worry. Get the Choir and a Vassal of Menoth and the Wracks to start with, that's for Jack support. For infantry, grab one of our 3 frontline units (Errants, Temple Flameguard or Zealots) along with their respective officers. Each has their advantages (Errants are a toolbox and great all-rounders, TFG have the best tarpitting stats, and Zealots have very nice bombs and can go nearly invincible for one turn). Those guys will be screening your jacks as they go up the field, helping make sure your jacks can pick their fights.

For jacks, I'd recommend getting the Reckoner/Sanctifier/Castigator kit, and magnetizing it for all the options (or at least for the Reckoner/Sanctifier, i'm not a fan of the Castigator generally). You'll generally be using this guy as a Reckoner, which is a brilliant jack (It has our best threat range for Melee with Reach and SPD5, it has good ranged shooting that debuffs enemy DEF and it gives concealment to all those around it as a passive buff), but occasionally the Sanctifier is nice. The Vanquisher and Crusader you get in the 2player box are good as well, the Vanquisher in particular is a great infantry clearer (but always take a Vassal if you have him, for the extra shot).


For casters, pKreoss, your starting character, does like a few shooting jacks (a Reckoner, Vanquisher and Redeemer go very well with him), so try him to start with. After that Reznik and eFeora do a lot for jacks, so they might be worth looking into. pSeverius and the Harbinger also can anything well, but their high Focus means they are capable of running quite a few jacks each. Those 4 would be good places to branch out to if you're looking for jack heavy, but just keep in mind that we do generally need some fighting infantry to keep our generally slowish jacks from being alpha struck into the ground.

I will also note that our most pure jack caster is High Allegiant Amon, but I couldn't recommend him when you're starting, as he's very finikity and needs a lot of lights that you might not use with other casters.


Now, for the infantry from the 2-player box, that would be the Cinerators. They work well as your front line in battlebox games, but in general play they are... not generally well regarded. They look really pretty, they hit hard, but they are sloooow, and their only way to speed up is to be damaged by your opponent (and your opponent might not be so obliging). They generally work best with a caster who can speed them up or can give them a defensive boost, which is why the best caster for them is Vindictus, but he's generally an infantry heavy caster, but any caster with Defenders ward or an infantry speed buff will help out. Reznik also doesn't mind them so much, as their larger bases can screen him from shooting if you don't want to keep him behind his jacks.