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Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/27/world/americas/cuba-american-fugitive/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Havana, Cuba (CNN) -- Should William Potts, an American fugitive living in Cuba, ever set foot in the United States again, he faces an indictment for airplane hijacking and a potentially lengthy prison term.

So why is Potts now battling to return to the same country that wants to imprison him?

In 1984, Potts hijacked a Piedmont Airlines passenger plane bound for Miami with 56 people aboard.

A Black Panther and self-styled revolutionary, Potts dreamed of receiving military training in Cuba that he could use to overthrow the United States government.

But first, the New York native had to find a way to get to the island.

Potts' solution was to smuggle a .25-caliber pistol inside a fake cast on his arm.

The handgun set off the metal detectors at Newark Airport, but all Potts had to do was flash his cast and an easy smile to breeze past security.

After the plane took off, Potts went to bathroom, where he ditched the phony cast and put on what he calls his "Black Panther costume" of dark clothes and combat boots. He walked to the back of the airplane with the pistol in hand.

A flight attendant told him to retake his seat, Potts said, but her eyes grew wide as she saw his changed demeanor and clothing.

Potts gave her a note ordering the pilot to fly the plane to Cuba.

Over the plane's telephone system, the pilot tried to convince Potts to end the hijacking.

"I had to be forceful with him," Potts remembered. "I tell him, if we don't go to Cuba, this plane is going down. We are going to hell or Cuba."

As the plane crossed the bright blue water and the coastline and palm trees came into view, Potts still wasn't sure he was over Cuba.

"I had them go low and circle around," he said. "I was looking for McDonald's and Coca-Cola and propaganda like that. I didn't see any of it, so I figured we must be here."

The plane landed in Havana, but Potts did not get the welcome he expected from his fellow revolutionaries.

After years of hijackings to the island, the Cubans put hijackers like him on trial.

Authorities told Potts that Fidel Castro's government was no longer involved in spreading armed revolution abroad.

"In a Machiavellian sense, the Cubans changed," he said. "They simply changed. They used to do it, and now they don't do it."

Authorities offered to let Potts return with the plane he hijacked to the United States, where air piracy charges awaited him.

Potts said he would face trial in Cuba.

"I thought I had won the case, and they gave me 15 years," Potts said, recalling his brief court proceedings in Cuba. "I didn't even know what 15 was in Spanish. And they said 'quince.' I said, what is 'quince?' and my translator said 15 years. And I said, '15 years for who?' And they said, '15 years for you.' "

Even though he was sent to one of Cuba's toughest prisons, where he regularly battled with other inmates and the guards, Potts never lost faith in the same revolution that had become his jailer.

"If you are not able to suffer for the cause, you are just a play revolutionary," Potts said.

Potts served his time -- 13½ years in prison and the rest under supervised release -- and tried to fit into Cuban society with the pidgin Spanish he learned in prison.

His first marriage, to a Cuban, didn't work out.

"That was a clash of cultures," he explained. "I am Muslim, and she's a santera."

A second failed marriage produced two daughters: Ntann, 7, and Assata Shakur, 11, named after the American fugitive also believed to be residing in Cuba whom the FBI added to its list of most wanted terrorists in May.

The girl's mother, Aime, also a Cuban, said she didn't realize her husband was naming their daughter after a fellow militant, convicted of murdering a New Jersey state trooper.

"He likes Japanese things, so I thought it was a Japanese name," she said with a roll of her eyes.

Raising his two daughters, Potts said, made him realize how much he missed family in the United States and wanted his children to meet them.

He said he also needed to make amends and apologize in person to the passengers of the plane he hijacked.

Potts still considers himself a revolutionary but says that both he and the times have changed, and violence is no longer an acceptable way to bring about change.

"I regret taking the plane and putting those people's lives in jeopardy," he said. "I didn't have that perspective at the time, but I have it now and will have it until the day I die. I would have been responsible for all those people dying."

In 2009, Potts wrote President Barack Obama, requesting a pardon for the hijacking.

Hearing nothing back, Potts then wrote the U.S. Attorney's Office in Miami to ask whether a plea deal could be worked out to take into account the time he had served in Cuba.

"Fifteen years in a communist prison that's been cited for human rights violations, I have paid my debts to society," he said.

Potts again got no reply, but his daughters were given U.S. citizenship and passports.

Potts wanted to travel with them to the U.S. and in September said he offered to surrender and face the charges awaiting him in the United States.

Nearly six months later, his daughters have been living with relatives in the U.S. since December, but he is still waiting for an answer.

But without a renewed U.S. passport, Potts can't join his girls.

Dozens of fugitives are believed to be living in Cuba, from convicted cop killers to Puerto Rican separatists to suspects in a South Florida Medicare fraud scheme.

The U.S. State Department has placed Cuba on the list of countries that support state terror, along with Iran and Syria, for providing a safe haven for fugitives from U.S. and international justice.

Potts is in all likelihood the only fugitive on the island offering to be tried.

"No one's harboring me," Potts countered. "I am trying to go back."

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Miami said Potts has been indicted for the 1984 hijacking but would not comment on why his offers to surrender have gone unanswered.


Another video


Now while he seams more idiot fringe than classic Muslim extremist, I see no remorse in his tone. He thinks he should be able to come here because he served his time in a Cuban prison. Well he never faced American justice. The guys a violent nut job. KEEP HIM OUT!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/28 08:05:21


"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
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Not sure what your wanting here... This seems more like you are wanting to call someone a violent nut job and state that you want to keep him out than have some sort of discourse.

He dose not think "he should be able to come here". He knows he can as a US citizen. You can't keep him out. He has every right to return to the US as it stands. The question is, has he been imprisoned for the crime he has committed as per the international law governing the prosecution of hijacking and piracy? No idea, but this is not a simple matter of "keep him out", but a matter of him wanting to know if he will be charged when he returns to the US.

As I understand it the international law requires recognition of the prosecution and agreement of jurisdiction. Something he is trying to resolve. I doubt the US will agree to anything with Cuba, but thats down to the US state department.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/28 08:22:13


 insaniak wrote:
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Ramsden Heath, Essex

He's an idiot and seemingly a fantasist, however he is your idiot.

If he ends up back in the US. Arrest him and let the courts decide.

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Florida

Im sorry but this is silly, why would he think the U.S. gives a crap about him serving time in another country. He wasnt convicted in a U.S. court, so him serving time in another country is pointless, I say let him back and let him rot in jail for the rest of his life. Im sure taking over a plane and forcing it to land carries a hefty penalty, and thats if they dont charge him with anything else.
   
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Ramsden Heath, Essex

Its not about caring its about citizenship.

There was a case recently where a British born citizen emigrated to Australia aged 2. So effectively an Aussie.

He grew up and by time he was in his 50's was convicted of a string of child molestation offences. Upon release this toe rag was deported to the UK despite having no memory of living here or ties of any kind. I fear that the US would have no grounds to refuse entry to a US citizen if that is anything to go by.

The other thing is double jeopardy. If he has served 15 years for highjacking that plane can he be tried in the us for it?

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Florida

Im not an expert in customs or anything, but the fact he committed a terrorist act to leave the U.S. so he could overthrow the government means he cannot just waltz back into the country as he pleases, If your wanted in the U.S. and flee you dont become unwanted, look at the Polanski thing. I dont know that double jeopardy applies to this at all. Did they charge him with the same things the U.S. would have? Even if they did I doubt it would matter because of the relationship between the U.S. and Cuba, especially since the article says hes still wanted for said hijacking.
   
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He's paid his debt to society - Cuban society. If he wants to return to the country that he hates so much let him, so long as he stands trial for the crimes that he committed in the United States

 
   
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He be better off in Cuba.

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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RIP Muhammad Ali.

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
He's paid his debt to society - Cuban society. If he wants to return to the country that he hates so much let him, so long as he stands trial for the crimes that he committed in the United States


This, very much so. If he wishes to return to America, he's welcome to do so since he's an American citizen, and we'll be happy to send him to jail for the rest of his life, because seriously, hijacking a plane? That's not a misdemeanor.

I mean, I think that's a pretty stupid plan, but he doesn't seem like a bright guy, and well, do what makes you happy I guess.

"I thought I had won the case, and they gave me 15 years," Potts said, recalling his brief court proceedings in Cuba. "I didn't even know what 15 was in Spanish. And they said 'quince.' I said, what is 'quince?' and my translator said 15 years. And I said, '15 years for who?' And they said, '15 years for you.' "


This was heartwarming.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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I did love the part were he wanted to go to Cuba to be trained to overthrow the American government......yet didn't speak Spanish What could have possibly gone wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rotgut wrote:
Im not an expert in customs or anything, but the fact he committed a terrorist act to leave the U.S. so he could overthrow the government means he cannot just waltz back into the country as he pleases, If your wanted in the U.S. and flee you dont become unwanted, look at the Polanski thing. I dont know that double jeopardy applies to this at all. Did they charge him with the same things the U.S. would have? Even if they did I doubt it would matter because of the relationship between the U.S. and Cuba, especially since the article says hes still wanted for said hijacking.

Double jeopary may be immaterial. There are two seperate jurisdictions which he committed crimes in, and the charges may not match up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/28 12:22:39


 
   
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Sheffield, City of University and Northern-ness

The fact that he is a muslim does not strike me as the reason for the hijacking, that comes across as being for revolutionary reasons rather than jihadist reasons.

That said, despite having served time in a cuban prison, and appearing to be somewhat remorseful, he hasn't yet been tried in America, so that would need to happen before he could go back (Though the 15 years in Cuban prison should, in my opinion, be taken into account, at least in sentencing)

   
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 Goliath wrote:
The fact that he is a muslim does not strike me as the reason for the hijacking


Until he said he was a Muslim it hadn't even occurred to me that he was anything other than your standard 60's (American) radical, most of which weren't Muslim.

He seems like an idiot, if he thinks that spending time in jail for one crime in country A would absolve him of a different crime in country B. In my mind the 15 years in Cuban prison should mean feth all.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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Believeland, OH

Let him rot in Cuba. Do this by telling him he has to serve his full sentence for a complete laundry list of crimes, I'm sure you can charge him with more than just hijacking as there were many crimes also committed in the hijacking. As a citizen he is always welcome to come back and do his time, which should be just about the rest of his life.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/28 16:49:18


"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
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Leerstetten, Germany

He can fly into the country anytime he wants, he already knows he will be arrested when he does.
   
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:I did love the part were he wanted to go to Cuba to be trained to overthrow the American government......yet didn't speak Spanish What could have possibly gone wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rotgut wrote:
Im not an expert in customs or anything, but the fact he committed a terrorist act to leave the U.S. so he could overthrow the government means he cannot just waltz back into the country as he pleases, If your wanted in the U.S. and flee you dont become unwanted, look at the Polanski thing. I dont know that double jeopardy applies to this at all. Did they charge him with the same things the U.S. would have? Even if they did I doubt it would matter because of the relationship between the U.S. and Cuba, especially since the article says hes still wanted for said hijacking.

Double jeopary may be immaterial. There are two seperate jurisdictions which he committed crimes in, and the charges may not match up.

The jurisdiction is irrelevant, as are the charges. It is only the criminal event that matters with the double jeopardy clause. However, I honestly have no idea if the clause applies to foreign sentencing. Simply because it is Cuba, I suspect that the US may not recognize it.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

He hijacked an airplane, he endangered the lives of everyone onboard.

If he is stupid enough to return to the US he should be immediately arrested and serve the full punishment sentenced to him by the American court, regardless of the Cuban's actions.




 
   
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 azazel the cat wrote:
The jurisdiction is irrelevant, as are the charges. It is only the criminal event that matters with the double jeopardy clause.


Almost nothing you just said is accurate. Jurisdiction matters, the charges matter, and it isn't only the criminal event that matters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/28 17:00:12


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

I think the sniper-guy in the DC area made it through the courts in three different states. Different charges in different jurisdictions.
   
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 azazel the cat wrote:
[The jurisdiction is irrelevant, as are the charges. It is only the criminal event that matters with the double jeopardy clause. However, I honestly have no idea if the clause applies to foreign sentencing. Simply because it is Cuba, I suspect that the US may not recognize it.

I'm not being argumentative here but have you a source to confirm that the jurisdiction does not matter? From what I could gather most legislation on double jeopardy related to domestic courts only.

 
   
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Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

So, a really young guy did something really stupid and now an old guy regrets what that young guy did and wants to comeback?

Apparently, he has not read F. Scott Fitzgerald and realized that in America there are no second acts.

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 Easy E wrote:
So, a really young guy did something really stupid and now an old guy regrets what that young guy did and wants to comeback?


If you read the article and what he says, he hasn't changed much, it seems. He still strikes me as a fantasist that believes he can do what he wants without much regard for what those actions entail. This isn't Red from Shawshank Redemption lamenting his idiotic youth and recognizing he is a different person, this seems to just be an older version of the same fool.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






Apologies, here is some of the material that I had read concerning double jeopardy;

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Double+Jeopardy
The dual-sovereignty doctrine received national attention during the early 1990s, when two Los Angeles police officers were convicted in federal court for violating the Civil Rights of rodney king during a brutal, videotaped beating, even though they previously had been acquitted in state court for excessive use of force (United States v. Koon, 833 F. Supp. 769 (C.D. Cal. 1993), aff'd, 34 F.3d 1416 (9th Cir. 1994), rehearing denied 45 F.3d 1303). Although many observers believed that the officers had been tried twice for the same offense, the convictions were upheld on appeal over double jeopardy objections. Under the dual-sovereignty doctrine, the appellate court ruled, a defendant who violates the laws of two sovereigns, even if by a single act, has committed two distinct offenses, punishable by both authorities.

The dual-sovereignty doctrine is designed to vindicate the interest that each sovereign claims in promoting peace and dignity within its forum, and permits state and federal governments to prosecute someone for the same behavior after either has already done so. A defendant also may be prosecuted successively by two states for the same act or omission. In Heath v. Alabama, 474 U.S. 82, 106 S. Ct. 433, 88 L. Ed. 2d 387 (1985), the U.S. Supreme Court held that successive prosecutions by the states of Georgia and Alabama based upon the same offense did not violate the Double Jeopardy Clause. In Heath, the defendant had committed murder in the state of Alabama but had taken the body to Georgia, where Georgia officials eventually found it. Both states prosecuted Heath and convicted him of murder for the same action, and the U.S. Supreme Court allowed the convictions to stand.

 
   
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Ahtman wrote:
 azazel the cat wrote:
The jurisdiction is irrelevant, as are the charges. It is only the criminal event that matters with the double jeopardy clause.


Almost nothing you just said is accurate. Jurisdiction matters, the charges matter, and it isn't only the criminal event that matters.

The charges do not matter. If you kill a single man, you cannot be tried for both murder and manslaughter (assuming the first trial ends in a situation that does not conclude jeopardy). However, this is quite different than if a person steals a car and then commits vehiclular homicide; as that is two separate events that can be tried seperately.

Likewise, the jurisdiction does not matter, unless the criminal event takes place in coinciding jurisdictions (which basically means state and federal) and even then, must pass the same evidence test. If you kill a man in Kentucky, you cannot be tried for it in both Kentucky, and then Tennesee, and then West Virginia, and so on (again, assuming the trial invokes jeopardy to begin with).

I'm not as confident in the federal-state interaction of this as I am with common law, but I'm reasonably certain this still applies.
   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Apologies, here is some of the material that I had read concerning double jeopardy


I just read up on Heath v. Alabama. What a bizarre decision, in that it was so contrary to my understanding of how double jeopardy works.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
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Believeland, OH

 azazel the cat wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
 azazel the cat wrote:
The jurisdiction is irrelevant, as are the charges. It is only the criminal event that matters with the double jeopardy clause.


Almost nothing you just said is accurate. Jurisdiction matters, the charges matter, and it isn't only the criminal event that matters.

The charges do not matter. If you kill a single man, you cannot be tried for both murder and manslaughter (assuming the first trial ends in a situation that does not conclude jeopardy). However, this is quite different than if a person steals a car and then commits vehiclular homicide; as that is two separate events that can be tried seperately.

Likewise, the jurisdiction does not matter, unless the criminal event takes place in coinciding jurisdictions (which basically means state and federal) and even then, must pass the same evidence test. If you kill a man in Kentucky, you cannot be tried for it in both Kentucky, and then Tennesee, and then West Virginia, and so on (again, assuming the trial invokes jeopardy to begin with).

I'm not as confident in the federal-state interaction of this as I am with common law, but I'm reasonably certain this still applies.


The crime did take place in two jurisdictions though. US and Cuba. Cuba has prosecuted him, if he comes back, it's our turn.

"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

With crimes on airplanes, does the flag country count as jurisdiction as well?
   
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 d-usa wrote:
With crimes on airplanes, does the flag country count as jurisdiction as well?


I believe so. The charges would be different as well, between Cuba and the US, so even if we applied an absurdly broad interpretation of double jeopardy it still wouldn't matter as the actual charges will be different anyway. He didn't hijack a Cuban plane, but he invaded Cuban airspace, and refused to leave when offered the option. Odds are we aren't going to charge him with violating Cuban airspace, or entering Cuba illegally.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

 Ahtman wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
With crimes on airplanes, does the flag country count as jurisdiction as well?


I believe so. The charges would be different as well, between Cuba and the US, so even if we applied an absurdly broad interpretation of double jeopardy it still wouldn't matter as the actual charges will be different anyway. He didn't hijack a Cuban plane, but he invaded Cuban airspace, and refused to leave when offered the option. Odds are we aren't going to charge him with violating Cuban airspace, or entering Cuba illegally.


I was just thinking more in line of some weird "if he hijacked the plane over international water" scenario or something like that. If the plane is flagged in the US then it's a US crime even if he hijacked it somewhere else and was already charged somewhere else.
   
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United States

 d-usa wrote:
With crimes on airplanes, does the flag country count as jurisdiction as well?


Sort of, its a grey area. Jurisdiction in the case of aircraft is not so well settled as that regarding ships but generally it is accorded to the state taking an offender into custody.

At least it was when Potts hijacked the relevant plane. US and international law regarding aircraft have changed a lot since 1984, which would make any case brought against Potts really difficult to prosecute.

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