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Or point me in the right direction.

After looking at the website and reading around I still don't exactly know what Forge World is. I get that they have extra units, armies and their own books. However, wasn't most of it made pre-5/6th ed? I'm just concerned that if I start playing with some of their units, that they may be majorly over or under powered. How do you tell? Whats in each book?

This isn't a legality debate, as I have seen many of those on here. Just a "help out the new guy" thing.

Thanks!

Forgeworld is a different division of Games Workshop. The produce resin-only models, often larger or more bizarre than the standard units that GW proper produces.

Forgeworld models (and the rules that go with them) are only legal if your opponent allows them (or your Tournament Organizer, in competitive play).

Some people feel that Forgeworld units are unfairly powered, and in a few cases that's accurate. (Pellas Mir'san jumps to mind.) Most of them are within the accepted norms for the game and their points cost, however. There is some additional baggage that comes with Forgeworld models, so be warned that not all your opponents may allow them (I don't allow them in tournaments that I preside over, although I do allow my opponent to use them in friendly play) or people may draw conclusions about you based on your use of them (that you just bought the 'most awesomest' units rather than learning how to play your Codex, that you have more money than sense, etc.). These conclusions aren't necessarily based in any real fact, but they are opinions I've actually heard multiple times over the years.

Additional downsides include out-of-date rules (although all the models are still functional, to my knowledge) and the cost. The Forgeworld stuff is all shipped from the UK, and the added costs make it prohibitively expensive.

That being said, the models almost always look great, the rules are usually reasonably balanced, and they tend to have a higher product quality than the Citadel products which are made from resin.

Hope that helps, and good luck with your decision!

Forge World is a brand name that GW publishes certain products under, just like Citadel miniatures or White Dwarf magazine. These are generally "advanced" books/models aimed primarily at dedicated collectors, and include a variety of units for both standard 40k and Apocalypse, along with fluff/pretty pictures/etc (all the things you find in a codex). Forge World's website shows the table of contents of each book, so you can look at that and see if what's inside is interesting to you.

All FW rules have been updated to at least 5th edition, and all of them have received at least bare-minimum 6th edition updates for things like vehicles getting hull points. Not all of them have been given balance or functional updates to make them true 6th edition units, but the problem is no worse than playing a 5th edition codex in 6th edition. You just get the update/FAQ pdfs and accept that your army might not work as well as one with a 6th edition codex.

Balance-wise FW units are no better or worse than codex units. There are overpowered units and weak units, just like there are overpowered and weak codex units. If you can handle the balance issues of codex-only 40k you'll have no problem dealing with the balance issues of FW rules.

Archangel wrote:I'm just concerned that if I start playing with some of their units, that they may be majorly over or under powered. How do you tell?

There are a few things that you can do to help you make this decision.

Firslty, Forgeworld stuff is largely intended as expansion campaigns to the main game. Things tend to function best when you treat them holistically, therefore, rather than as individual units that you can shove into your army. Death Korps of Kreig, for example, has some hideously overpowered stuff, but if you make a whole army from the campaign book using just those rules, then things aren't so bad, as Death Korps, in the context of their "codex" aren't so bad. They have real and serious drawbacks as an army, which is why it's okay that they have a few things that are way, way too overpowered.

If, on the other hand, you cherry pick just the overpowered units and take none of the drawbacks, then you're exhibiting the kind of behavior that you're trying to avoid.

Secondly, you can ameliorate this cherry-picking problem somewhat by comparing what you're taking to what the relevant actual codex has in it. For example, in the Imperial Guard codex, you can buy a leman russ that has two lascannons, one of which always rolls +D6 for armor penetration. Or, for practically no more points, FW offers the same thing, but BS4, twin-linked, and causes instant death to monstrous creatures. The fact that the FW unit is much, much better than its codex equivalent should be a red flag for you.

In general, it shouldn't be too difficult to parse things out for yourself, honestly. You have to apply a bit of thoughfulness moreso than codex units, but that's the price you pay for including things in expansions that have experimental rules.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/530068.page

I just started a poll where I start with a long history explanation of forge world.

Take Peregrine's and Ailaros' opinions of FW and realize they are nearly diametrically opposed views of the same subject.

I would recommend several things about FW;

Check with your meta and see if anyone else is interested. This helps to alleviate the rough feelings about FW units as if everyone has one then everyone will want to play them and you can hopefully get a group order together and thereby get free shipping (250 gbp or more gets you free shipping which makes the kits about GW costs).

I have found them to be the same power levels as the codex units. Does this mean there are not broken units? No, there are undercosted units in the codex and there are undercosted units in FW books. It is up to you to play the game in a fun manner.

Make sure you are ready to paint and model at FW levels. Honestly these models are just fantastic so you will feel really good if you can paint well but if you paint poorly you may feel the compulsion to strip them until you get it right.

There are actually a variety of battle reports on here and warseer where one or two forge world units have been used.

If you decide to go FW beware you may end up collecting an entire FW army, If you thought IG cadians were addicting then wait till you start a DKoK or Elysians army. Try proxying one of these army lists sometime and you will soon realize they can really spice the game up for you.

I would second what ansacs said about being ready to paint and model to a high standard.

It's not as true as it used to be because of GW price rises, but Forge World stuff is high quality, generally expensive stuff that you really want to put the effort into getting right. Forge World kits are significantly closer to the artwork in the codexes and rulebooks in terms of level-of-detail than Citadel kits.

As of Raid on Kastorel-Novem, all Forge World units published in Imperial Armour books from volume eight onwards, including Volumes 1 and 3 second edition are all legal for 40k without special permission. However, there will always be one person who will blindly insist that this is not true, because they are still locked in the mindset of Volumes I to VII, which carried a caveat regarding opponent's permission.

Overall: Forge World stuff has a similar power balance to codex stuff in game terms, but only buy Forge World kits if you feel your hobby skills are up to doing them justice. But buy the books, because you don't need to be the Airfix Queen to love and enjoy those.

If FW is part of normal w40k , can't one just do counts as and use normal w40k or own build models with FW rules in normal games ? using 4-5 hvy weapon teams as saber platforms just by adding some sandbags is a lot cheaper then buying them from forgeworld. Easier to make glue and fix them too..

 Ailaros wrote:
Secondly, you can ameliorate this cherry-picking problem somewhat by comparing what you're taking to what the relevant actual codex has in it. For example, in the Imperial Guard codex, you can buy a leman russ that has two lascannons, one of which always rolls +D6 for armor penetration. Or, for practically no more points, FW offers the same thing, but BS4, twin-linked, and causes instant death to monstrous creatures. The fact that the FW unit is much, much better than its codex equivalent should be a red flag for you.

Sigh. Thank you for demonstrating that most people who complain about FW stuff don't actually understand the rules. The tank in question costs 35 points more (not even close to "practically no more"), only gets a twin-linked weapon for the main gun, not the hull LC, and is only available as an HQ for a specific tank-focused list that has some severe drawbacks (like lack of good infantry units to score objectives). You can't just throw one into a codex IG list, and it's not even close to as overpowered as you claim.

(Compare this to Pask, a codex character, who gives you BS 4 and +1 to armor penetration on ALL the guns (an incredibly powerful ability, probably better than the FW tank) for 50 points and is considered a marginal upgrade that most competitive players don't bother with.)

You have to apply a bit of thoughfulness moreso than codex units, but that's the price you pay for including things in expansions that have experimental rules.

This is also extremely misleading. FW does publish experimental rules occasionally, for when they want to release a model before an appropriate book for its rules to appear in. However, the vast majority of FW rules, including every IA book, are NOT experimental at all. They are final rules just like any codex.

Perfect! Ally our posts clear up pretty much everything I've been wondering about. I've been thinking about starting an Elysian Drop Troop army.

Thanks all!

Tell your opponent you're planning to use FW models before the game and double-check a tournament's ruleset before handing in the lists. FW is very hit-and-miss balance-wise and is thus, widely, not considered a given.

Archangel188 wrote:
Perfect! Ally our posts clear up pretty much everything I've been wondering about. I've been thinking about starting an Elysian Drop Troop army.

Thanks all!

I think they got an update in IA3:Second edition. Link to Book


Table of Contents:

Forge World's a different brand of Games Workshop (think Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac by GM), designed mainly to sell GW-stuff to people who want to play with GW stuff but don't wanna be seen buying "childish" things.

A bit like Adult Editions of Harry Potter.

 Jimsolo wrote:


Forgeworld models (and the rules that go with them) are only legal if your opponent allows them (or your Tournament Organizer, in competitive play).

As a slight caveat to this, this is only true in so far as everything is only legal as long as your opponent allows it.

Your opponent can refuse to play you at any time for any reason. Refusing to play because of Forge World is the same as refusing to play because you play Grey Knights, you don't have a painted army, you are fielding a Riptide/Heldrake/6 Vendettas/etc...

As far as GW is concerned, any Forge World rules that have the 40k approved stamp on them(found in the IA books) are balanced for use in normal games of 40k. Stuff without 40k approved are either Appocalypse only or have not had their rules finalized yet.

Yes, you should let your opponent know because it may be a surprise for them. But this is more of a good sportsmanship deal and not any hard fast rule.

Anyone that refuses to play against FW stuff because its overpowered is wrong. The vast majority of things are underpowered or overpriced, lots of stuff that is called overpowered is only so because its played incorrectly. Then there is a very tiny amount of stuff that is genuinely overpowered, but no more than any stuff you find in a regular codex. Vendettas, Heldrakes, Riptides, Dreadknights, etc... Nothing from Forge World is worse than these.





Tournaments are different. They are done by a private individual who may have his own version of the rules. The rules should have posted what is and isn't legal to field in the tournament.

Really no reason for the 4th thread this month on FW legalities. The usual suspects have each had their say. Let's move on and welcome the new player to the forums, gents.