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Hey all, I hope this is in the right section. I seem to have a knack for getting the wrong forums.

I have been wondering over the last few days about a ‘Vanilla' Marine codex. I’m sure we’re due one soon (ish), but I’m wondering what exactly they are gonna do to make people buy them/ use them, as opposed to all the other (better) marine codex’s out now. How exactly are they going to make my Crimson Fists balance out with Blood Angels & Space Wolves I wonder. I realise that we now have flyers, (which is nice), but I’m hoping that they will really make some interesting changes that only ‘Vanilla’ Marines can have.
Some examples I’m hoping for:
Challenges -
Perhaps we could refuse challenges will no ill effect.
Perhaps some sort of table, similar to the chaos ‘boon’ table, that make our leaders better & stronger, but with the added bonus of (again) no ill effect.
Warlord Traits -
Perhaps our Characters (Kantor, Marnius etc etc) will have specific traits that only they can take, & will offer ‘Hatred' against relevant armies from the fluff. Kantor - Hatred Orks, Marnius - Hatred Tyranids etc etc.

This is all just speculation & wishes you understand. I am just wondering if anyone else has been thinking similar things.
I do still use my Crimson Fist army, & I really enjoy it. I do however feel, that against some of these latest armies, you are facing an uphill battle from the point of deployment. I do love a challenge, but I do also love purging in the name of the Emperor.

Any thoughts Dakka?

If you look at the boon table there are some bad things in the chaos codex. Now asking for the same thing for smurfs with no balance is a little one sided. And how would the emperor feel of he knew his mighty Marines are being cowardly and not accepting a challenge in his name.

Honestly all they need are point adjustments on some units and a unit or two with skyfire. They more then likely will give them a mc in the form of a super dread more then likely. And some unit mods like dark angels got in their codex.

But knowing gw and their poster child they will matt ward it like everything else.

Interesting. I can totally see where your coming from. Maybe my hopes are a tad one sided. I can see the 'big dread’ that you are on about happening. £70 for a huge lump of plastic, that will devastate all in it’s path until it gets killed by a Melta gun.

Mommy, mommy, I NEEEEEEEEED 3!
It all seems to be heading towards bigger, faster, more guns, higher price!

Would totally lol if they get something like "Champions of the Emperor" rule - must issue/accept challenges where possible. Sadly no, that's likely to remain our curse alone for this edition.

What you propose is a boon table, without the chance at losing your champion, but also you're able to dodge the risky means by which Chaos would normally roll on this (now risk-free) table. It seems a little... Marine-ish

I would look towards what the Dark Angels got for inspiration. They got no new weird special rules, just new units.

You will see rebalancing for units with point costs (tactical will go down, TH/SS will go up) They will get a new impressive model and a few other gubbins.

The army will more than likely be very strong due to some combination of rules reworking and point costs.

 lazarian wrote:

You will see rebalancing for units with point costs (tactical will go down, TH/SS will go up) They will get a new impressive model and a few other gubbins.

The army will more than likely be very strong due to some combination of rules reworking and point costs.

Yep. I think they'll continue to be the Jack of All Trades codex. Drop pod army? Got ya covered. Bikes? No problem. Elite shooty units? Sure. Want to run 6 Dreads? Slap them on the table.

I agree with you on the tactical squad and TH/SS terminators. The Storm Raven and Storm Talen will probably get added, too.

Yup and there is your new codex. Just saved you 60.00 nothing else here to see.

Kind of makes me wonder what kind of giant monster creature marine we'll see. Maybe a giant marine in super sized power armor with a mega bolter?

T8, Sv3+, super sized bolter rapid fire! Super sized str 10 combat knife!

No more giant robots, please.

 sudojoe wrote:
Kind of makes me wonder what kind of giant monster creature marine we'll see. Maybe a giant marine in super sized power armor with a mega bolter?

T8, Sv3+, super sized bolter rapid fire! Super sized str 10 combat knife!

C: DA didn't get one, so I'm not sold that C:SM will get them.

If they bring back chapter traits, I'll be happy.

I have good reason to believe the existing special characters will be... "re-balanced". Marneus will no doubt still kick butt, but I see Kantor no longer making Sternguard scoring and Vulkan Hestan losing the master-crafted nonsense (or becoming much more expensive).

For the same reason, Shrike will probably get a boost, aside from Telion and Chronus he's really the only "meh" character in there.

... I see Kantor no longer making Sternguard scoring ...

Why would that be? The two Marine books released up to this point both continue to follow the formula of having SC's unlock troop choices so I can't see Kantor losing that ability. That being said I COULD see them dropping him entirely to add a new character. Maybe.

Actually, Kantor doesn't make Sternguard Troops - he only makes them scoring. So, that's a valid point, they may well make him even better...! I only think he'll be nerfed because he's too obvious a choice at the moment... the pattern goes that previously awesome units become rubbish in favour of previously rubbish ones. It pushes sales among existing players.

They'll release the SUPER DREADNOUGHT. It'll be like a dreadnought but 3 times as tall and have really good rules. They'll also repackage the same marine plastics into 8 man boxes and increase the price $10.

I just hope they replace the horrid "Mr Strong"-style Dreads with something that has actually legs. Something that could at least conceivably walk.

The awesome new kits like the Dreadknight really showed how old and lacking the "classic" Dread truly is.

 Zweischneid wrote:


The awesome new kits like the Dreadknight ...

Woah, let's slow down the crazy train here for a second. Awesome and dreadknight in the same sentence?

the pattern goes that previously awesome units become rubbish in favour of previously rubbish ones. It pushes sales among existing players.

Ah. That's true. Good point!

Call me crazy but I don't want a tonne of change. A slight points adjustment to bring things in line with other marine codexes, such as tac squads and devs being a little cheaper, not alot though. A slight adjustment to some hq choices (slightly cheaper base librarians, captains, and chaplains for example), and some SC adjustments here and there.

The addition of something like the 4th ed chapter traits. Maybe make it in the form of a warlord table that your chosen warlord can take if he is not a SC with a specific trait. Just a bit of a change from the 4th ed version of "here are the obvious perks, and here are some *snicker*... draw backs".

We already recently got two fliers, being added to the actual codex with those will be nice. Also, maybe a new kit or two, but please don't let it be some uber $90 giant chunk of plastic MC thing that makes no sense and is super powerful so you always see them maxed.

Some other things that are not points adjustments I'd like to see are:
- Allow scouts to take land speeder storm as a dedicated transport.
- a few more useful standards for command squads to take. Not the same ones as the DA, but something similar with a C:SM feel
- return of terminator command squads, or the ability to give command squads terminator armor. Also to give them jump packs (in case my HQ has a jump pack for some weird reason, I mean they can take bikes. Maybe with shriek).
- A way to make stern guard troops not just scoring. Instead of terminators as troops, because that's been done. Some kind of elite as troops without terminator armor would be neat, and could compliment drop pod armies well. Just don't make it cheese, something balanced. I want it to be competative to run, but without my opponent crying cheese every game.
- Some AA, such as flack on ML

Just some ideas, but the key thing is I want it to be balanced. Something in line with the DA codex for balance would be nice. I don't want it to get a bunch of stuff that makes playing the other marine codexes pointless, and it would be nice if it had some thing they didn't have(see fourth point above). I like the current book, and it is still balanced in the current edition save a few points costs here and there.

My two cents anyways.

I honestly think dont know if it was covered above but wanted to say it before i forgot so here it is all characters must accept challenges exept if they have a warlord trait called lets say " out manned and out gunned" which is pretty much your warlord knows he is short troops and does not want to risk loosing a sergant or high ranking officer so it plays as if he denyed the challenge.

Have to echo some of the sentiments here, SM is a solid codex and will most likely get point shift and something new (and probably way too big). Would be cool to see SM get chapter trait stuff for all the people who like personalized chapters.

I'd like a little AA. Some kind of option for tanks or devs to shoot at flyers would be preferable. No new units required.

I'd like more 'hero HQs' to represent the myriad number of under-utilized Space Marine Chapters.

I would like to see the following changes.

1. Just add the BT into the codex and give them chapter tactics.

2. Increase points of the thunder fire cannon.

3. Make the tank commander upgrade guy, for got his name, die when the tank dies. Really, pask and the tau guy die with the tank.

Imo the 'Nilla dex suffers from only two things, and one of them isn't that bad.

The first is just slight points inflations. Devastators will probably drop in cost, as will tac squads (or they may get more weapons options or something). Maybe we'll get a new unit, maybe not (we don't really need one, though a dedicated AA pred might be cool or something).

Most of our HQs aren't even that crazy. Vulkan can be scary, but you have to tailor your list specifically to use him, and even then it's not "CRAZY OP."

Really we just need some points changes, imo.

The other problem is Fluff. Let's have someone other than Ward write it (and right it). That would be awesome.


Would it be nice to get custom chapter creation traits? OH YES. Can it be done without making the codex OP?

Hopefully. Will it happen? Probably not (alas).

Jump pack command squads would be nice, but that could just be my RG loyalties from way back showing through.

Giving SM's the "Hunter" version of the Whirlwind for AA would be great. It's only been around for Epic for how long?

I'd like to see the SM Captain get a Chapter Trait ability that unlocks something for the army when you purchase it from a list, or maybe banners that do the same, or both.

Scouts with LS Storm Transports would be nice.

I cannot even begin to think of what in the Marine arsenal would even come close to fitting on a large oval base. And they don't need one.

As far as point reductions compared to CA, a C:SM 10 strong tac squad with meltagun and lascannon is only five points cheaper than the DA one.

And they get Chapter Tactics. Well worth it in my book.

Though a plastic THawk would be great.......

 Hashbeth wrote:
Maybe we'll get a new unit, maybe not (we don't really need one, though a dedicated AA pred might be cool or something).

You will. Looking at current trends, you'll get:

A plastic character. Maybe finally a plastic librarian or chaplain?
A couple of finecast characters
A finecast unit moved into a plastic kit, maybe a dual kit (so basically a Sternguard/Vanguard kit, probably with 10 Marines and only 5 Jump packs and 1 of each combi weapon)
A large oval base walker. Rumours have mentioned a large robot type unit, maybe styled after a Contemptor (but obviously bigger, because bigger is better)
A flyer. Since Space Marines have access to two already, I'd guess they'll skip this and go for another vehicle, maybe a new Predator kit.

I'd guess, in order to get Whirlwind sales moving again, they'll get an option for S8 twin linked flakk missiles.

I wish I was joking about the last part.

martin74 wrote:

3. Make the tank commander upgrade guy, for got his name, die when the tank dies. Really, pask and the tau guy die with the tank.

Yeah, but they're only puny Tau and normal humans. Not Spess Mahreens.


I'd like to see Codex: Space Marines finally be competitive with the specialized Marine codex books again. If the book is supposed to be about the Ultramarines and the way they do battle, and the Ultramarines are the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters", then show us why that is. They don't need to be Marines +1, what they need to be is strong enough so that the other books aren't Marines +1.

Give the book flexibility. Let there be multiple FOCs or something that can be chosen as "formations" (or something). One that allows, say, extra Fast Attack, but limits Heavy Support, etc. One that allows bikes or assault squads to be troops, but takes away something else. More options for the command squad (terminators, jump, bike, etc).

I'd like them to avoid anything like 4th Editions exploitable Chapter Traits, but at the same time show that the Codex Astartes is supposed to be all about flexibility and being able to fight any kind of battle. So let them do that.

AA option for missile launchers (they are "missiles" after all). Would give them flexibility and use over lascannons. The same option for Whirlwinds.

A facelift for the Dreadnoughts (or at least longer legs) would be cool. And if the Marines need a "big robot", give them them rules for the Contemptor. It already exists, problem solved. I'd hate to see them invent some kind of new superdreadnought, or something else that previously didn't exist in the fluff.

If IG can take Leman Russ tanks in a squadron, and Vendettas in a squadron, why can't C:SM take whirlwinds and predators in a squadron?