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So just recently started a Space wolf Army after having collected Eldar for far too long without getting very far and I wanted to know what people thought of this list before I start building it.

HQ:
Canis Wolfborn: 185 Pts
Wolf Lord with Wolf’s claw and Storm shield, Thunderwolf mount, Wolftooth necklace, Saga of the Bear: 240Pts

Elites:
6 x Wolf Guard (one of which is Arjac Rockfist) terminators, with twin wolf claws, 1 cyclone missile launcher: 480 Pts
Lone Wolf terminator with chainfist and storm shield: 85Pts

Troops:
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x flamer, 1 x wolf standard, 1 x mark of the Wulfen, 1 wolf guard battle leader with twin wolf’s claws, wolf tail talisman and Wolftooth necklace: 120 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x flamer, 1 x wolf standard, 1 x mark of the Wulfen, 1 wolf guard battle leader with twin wolf’s claws, wolf tail talisman and Wolftooth necklace: 120 Pts


Fast Attack:
5 x Thunderwolf Cavalry with 3 storm shields and 1 with melta bombs: 345 Pts

Heavy Support:
5x Long Fangs with missile launchers and 1xsquad leader: 140 Pts
5x Long Fangs with missile launchers and 1xsquad leader: 140 Pts


Any suggestions?

Imo you need more grey hunters, and maybe a delivery system.
What is your plan with the terminators? Atm it looks like everything is on foot, which means the twc will end up in front and will probably get shredded by small arms fire.

So I'd pick drop pods or rhinos as a delivery system, maybe cut back on the terminator squad to afford it.
Looks like you want to be assaulty, so I'd probably cut the terminator squad down to 3 or 4. With those extra points I'd get another grey hunter squad and 3 pods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just added up your total, 1855. I would probably want at least 4 grey hunter squads. I'd personally go melta and plasma on them. I'd also get another drop pod for the long fangs that would drop in empty. That ensures that 3 pods would come in on turn 1. They could help provide target saturation so the twc doesn't get destroyed right away while also providing cover.
Put a wg terminator in each pod and it will generally help their survivability.

I apologize for the broken up advice, still sucking down my morning coffee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, imo there's a spot in every sw list for a rune priest. It's one of the best anti psyker units in the game, and can be extremely helpful. Put jotww on it, and then swap it for divination when there's no good jotww targets. Living lightning is also fantastic.

Ok, here we go

Above poster is 100% right, definately need more GH's

When you say wolf guard battle leader are you reffering to the Wolf Guard pack leaders or the HQ choice options?

As it stands you havent included any points costs for the grey hunters that make sense, 8 grey hunters with a flamer, wolf standard and mark of the wulfen is 150 points is my maths is correct, so either your maths is wrong for the squad in the first place or you havent added them at all?

You dont need the 2nd wolf lord, take either him or Canis

TWC need a fist or something for anti tank, or at least Meltabombs

Your list CANNOT deal with AV14 you only have missile launchers, Arjac and a lone wolf to deal with, i reccomend adding some lascannons in your long fang packs, i prefer 3 missile 2 lascannons personally

Swap your hunters flamers for meltaguns and take 10 guys for a free 2nd meltagun, get them in pods

Just what i thought now, may add more later when not on break at work haha

1. At 2000 points you want at least 4 scoring units. More if you can swing it. Add more Grey Hunters.

2. I dislike Canis Wolfborn. 3+ Save, no Invulnerable, and only gets his extra attacks if he's in base contact. If he gets stuck in a Challenge he's going to have difficulty, and if he's getting a worthwhile number of extra attacks he's going to be taking a lot wounds from the enemy unit. He can kill basic infantry well enough, but so can normal TWC so he's just kind of redudant, and overcosted for what he does. I mean, 3 TWC with a Wolf Claw runs just a little cheaper and can do more damage to the same kinds of units.

3. Drop the Wolftooth Necklace. Your Wolf Lord is WS 6. He's hitting 99% of the units in the game on a 3+ already. Only things that are WS 6 and above would warrant a Wolftooth Necklace, and several of those you generally don't want to meet in close combat (Genestealers, Daemon Princes, Abaddon) because the volume of low AP attacks they put out will end you. Generally you are better off shooting those things if you can.

4. Arjac Rockfist is too expensive for what he does. Drop him. 188 points can buy a lot of things.

5. It would behoove you to take advantage of the dirt cheap Combi weapons. Also, if you end up short on points you don't actually need Wolf Claws since you get to choose the Power Weapon for free when you have TDA. I still like 'em though. But unless you stick them in a Land Raider or a Drop Pod, or have them lead your other Packs, you are better off leaving these at home. They'll just die to volume of fire if you try to walk them.

6. You don't need Melta Bombs on your TWC. A Power Fist would have been a good take though. Personally I find 3 Storm Shields overkill, but a 3:2 or 2:3 ratio or Storm Shields is pretty common so no biggie there.

7. Sweet Emperror's corpse! I totally missed the fact you put two WGBL in your list to lead your Grey Hunters. Your points are wrong for those entries. Your Grey Hunters are 145 Points each too. Anyways, ditch the WGBL! That is a horrendous waste of points. They just won't do much.

8. Consider taking 1 Rune Priest. Its cheap and adds a lot to your army.


Remember, Shooting is very, very powerful in this edition of the game. Space Wolves are a short range army, not an assault army. We do well in combat, but its not our sole focus. Grey Hunters truly are the core of our army, just like the fluff says. Everything else is a means to support the core of Grey Hunters. Make sure you have a means to deliver the Grey Hunters to where they need to go (walking DOES work, just requires some other things as well).

You had me at Canis Wolfborn.

But seriously folks...You don't need two WGBL's to join your Grey Hunters. They're never going to make it into close combat anyway because your GH's are walking. Dropping those two and Canis Wolfborn should save you around 400 points. Drop Arjac too and now you have 600-ish points to spend on more Grey Hunters. Then you've got a really solid list.

Agree with most things said above
Here's my nugget:
480 points for 6 models is FAR too much IMO considering they probably won't do that much... I would consider losing them.

Thanks for the advice, all very helpful Hopefully this revised list is more viable?

HQ:
Wolf Lord with Wolf’s claw and Storm shield, Thunderwolf mount, Saga of the Bear: 240Pts
Rune Priest with runic armour, wolf tail talisman, chooser of the slain: 135 Pts

Sub-total: 375 Pts



Elites:
4 x Wolf Guard (one of which is Arjac Rockfist) terminators, with combimeltas, 1 cyclone missile launcher: 332 Pts
Lone Wolf terminator with chainfist and storm shield and meltabombs: 90Pts

Sub-total: 422 Pts



Troops:
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard, 1 wolf guard pack leader with combi-melta: 158 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard, 1 wolf guard pack leader with combi-melta: 158 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard, 1 wolf guard pack leader with combi-melta: 158 Pts

Sub-total: 544 Pts



Fast Attack:
5 x Thunderwolf Cavalry with 2 storm shields and 1 power fist: 315 Pts

Sub-total: 315 Pts



Heavy Support:
5x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1xsquad leader: 170 Pts
5x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1xsquad leader: 170 Pts

Sub-total: 340 Pts



Total: 1996 Pts

Hi, Its a better list, I am assuming you are putting the terminators in with the GH squads, which means 3 of them in there, the 4th CML terminator with one of the long fang units? Then where is Arjac going?
I like Arjac, he's good, but I would only use him in a drop pod so he can drop and throw his hammer at something, otherwise he's too slow to get him where needed. In this list I would drop Arjac and the CML terminator for another squad of 10 grey hunters with double plasma.
Then you have a really nice list.

But...but Arjac... :(

Is there anything specifically wrong with running them as a separate terminator unit?

 Lynx0193 wrote:
But...but Arjac... :(

Is there anything specifically wrong with running them as a separate terminator unit?

Arjac is a beast…
However you need to use him right.
A] Him and 4 other Wolf Guard in a Pod.
B] Him, Logan and Long Fang Multi-Melta SPAM in a Pod.
C] Him and Logan and 6 more Wolf Guard in a Land Raider Crusader.
D] Leading some Wolf Scouts [Amusing for the “Holy " out of your Opponent]

Beyond that he Struggles unless you are doing a full Loganwing.

Also, you can't take the Cyclone missile launcher unless you have at least 5 wolf guard. You've only got 4.

Plus, I think you could get two TH/SS wolf guard termies for one Arjac model. Is his 12" hammer worth it?

Fair call. Sigh, I suppose I don't require his mega skills.

That's actually good from the point of view of he's part of Logan's Great Company. Not having him allows for a greater freedom in terms of fluff and stuff.

Thanks for the advice. So if I change it to simply 5 Termies with the combi's and the cyclone launcher it goes to 205 Pts leaving me with 136 Pts to spare. Thinking Master of the Runes for the Rune Priest and a rhino for the last grey hunters squad? That leaves 51 Pts...another Termie? or scrap the master of the runes and go for another Lone wolf?

Go for the Master of Runes

Lynx0193 wrote:Wolf Lord with Wolf’s claw and Storm shield, Thunderwolf mount, Saga of the Bear: 240Pts
Rune Priest with runic armour, wolf tail talisman, chooser of the slain: 135 Pts

Points are off, Wolf Lord should be 230 with that layout I believe. I'd seriously drop the Wolf Tail Talisman as well, at least until we run out of things to spend points on! The Runic Armor is probably unnecessary since he isn't your Warlord, but isn't a bad idea though I'm partial to TDA myself for the 5++ Invulnerable Save.

So that's 15 points extra... 35 if you drop the Rune Priest's armor (probably wouldn't).

Lynx0193 wrote:4 x Wolf Guard (one of which is Arjac Rockfist) terminators, with combimeltas, 1 cyclone missile launcher: 332 Pts
Lone Wolf terminator with chainfist and storm shield and meltabombs: 90Pts

I'm flabbergasted. Why are you taking Melta Bombs on a model with a Chain Fist? You already are striking at S8 with 2D6 for Armor Penetration, and you get multiple attacks with the Chain Fist. The Melta Bombs are a waste of points. Should be only 327 points for the Wolf Guard (can't use the Combi-Melta while you fire the CML; the rules for that only apply to Storm Bolters). I still strongly advise against Arjac.

So that's 10 points extra... 198 points extra if you drop Arjac entirely...

Lynx0193 wrote:8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard, 1 wolf guard pack leader with combi-melta: 158 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard, 1 wolf guard pack leader with combi-melta: 158 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard, 1 wolf guard pack leader with combi-melta: 158 Pts

So that's where your other Wolf Guard that allow you to take the CML went! Do yourself a favor and get in this habit: When writing the list, keep the Wolf Guard all in their own entry. You don't split them off until before Deployment and it confuses people if you list them separately sometimes, such as when you take a CML on what appears to be a 4 man Wolf Guard pack but is really a 7 man.

So your Grey Hunter packs are 170 points each (counting the Rhino; 135 without it) and your Wolf Guard pack is 396 points (as listed in your post).

Lynx0193 wrote:5 x Thunderwolf Cavalry with 2 storm shields and 1 power fist: 315 Pts

No complaints here other than it has 2 more than I'd bother taking. Pretty standard fare for TWC. Points are off though. Should be 325 pts.

So lost 10 pts there...

Lynx0193 wrote:5x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1xsquad leader: 170 Pts
5x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1xsquad leader: 170 Pts

You mean 6 Long Fangs, but other than that fairly solid selection here.

Lynx0193 wrote:But...but Arjac... :(

Some perspective: He costs as much as one of your Grey Hunter packs in a Rhino and does a lot less. A fourth Grey Hunter pack, especially at 1850-2000 points, is far more important for winning games than Arjac ever will be.

Anpu42 wrote:Arjac is a beast…
However you need to use him right.
A] Him and 4 other Wolf Guard in a Pod.
B] Him, Logan and Long Fang Multi-Melta SPAM in a Pod.
C] Him and Logan and 6 more Wolf Guard in a Land Raider Crusader.
D] Leading some Wolf Scouts [Amusing for the “Holy " out of your Opponent]

Also almost all of this. Item D isn't accurate at all though. You can't attach a Wolf Guard in TDA, on a Bike, or with a Jump Pack to a unit of Wolf Scouts. You've never been able to do that. Also, Wolf Scouts can't OBEL with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader anymore anyways thanks to the latest FAQ. And no, the FAQ is not talking about ICs, its specifically talking about ICs and Wolf Guard Pack Leaders.

Really, Arjac is a fun model to take and can be useful to some lists, but in general he's a point sink. You're better off taking more Grey Hunters with your current list.

Lynx0193 wrote:Is there anything specifically wrong with running them as a separate terminator unit?

No, Terminators are awesome. But you have to deliver them so they need a Land Raider or a Drop Pod. They will do nothing but die if you try to walk them.


Anyways, by my count you have an easy 15 points freed up, 203 if you drop Arjac, and 223 if you drop the armor on the Rune Priest. That's a lot of options available to you. If it were me, I'd add another TDA Wolf Guard with Combi-Melta and switch that Rune Priest's armor to TDA from Runic. Give the Wolf Guard a Drop Pod. That still leaves you 140 points free and now you have some possibilities for fun, which I'll get to later.

I'd then drop the Chooser of the Slain (as much as it hurts to do so) in order to take a 5 man Grey Hunter pack and stick it in a Las/Plas or TL-Lascannon Razorback (150 points; take the free Flamer).

Alternatively you could drop the armor from the Rune Priest and Arjac and take a 4th Grey Hunter pack identical to what you have but with a Drop Pod, take another Power Armor Wolf Guard with Combi-Melta, and split the Wolf Guard into two packs both with Drop Pods.

So what I'd recommend:

Lynx0193 wrote:Thinking Master of the Runes for the Rune Priest and a rhino for the last grey hunters squad? That leaves 51 Pts...another Termie? or scrap the master of the runes and go for another Lone wolf?

Master of Runes is bad. If you take the Codex powers, almost all of them are shooting attacks and he can only shoot once per turn. If you take BRB powers he's not able to cast the same ability twice, so you can Prescience both Long Fang packs. Plus he's better up front where you can really nullify the enemy's psychic abilities.

The meltas on the lone wolf were just to fill up the last few points on one of the previous lists. Already had gotten rid of them

That looks really good, just one thing, the drop pod on the second unit of Wolf Guard. If they're splitting off into the greyhunters packs then won't they be using their drop pod/rhino? Having that droppod assigned to them feels a bit redundant. Other wise looks really good!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This list leaves me with 63 pts spare, assuming I don't need the drop pod for the second wolf guard pack, I put it on the last grey hunter pack instead. Not sure where to use the last pts...

HQ:
Wolf Lord with Wolf’s claw and Storm shield, Thunderwolf mount, wolf tail talisman, Saga of the Bear: 235Pts
Rune Priest with TDA, chooser of the slain, JOTWW, Murderous Hurricane 130 Pts

Elites:
5 x Wolf Guard 3x TDA & Combi-Melta, 1x TDA & CML (personally I prefer Assault Cannons), 1x PA & Combi-Melta: 200 Pts
1 x Drop Pod: 35 Pts
4 x Wolf Guard with Combi-Melta: 92pts


Troops:
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Drop Pod: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Drop Pod: 35 Pts

Fast Attack:
3 x Thunderwolf Cavalry with 2 storm shields and 1 power fist: 225 Pts

Heavy Support:
6x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1xsquad leader: 170 Pts
6x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1xsquad leader: 170 Pts

 Lynx0193 wrote:
That looks really good, just one thing, the drop pod on the second unit of Wolf Guard. If they're splitting off into the greyhunters packs then won't they be using their drop pod/rhino? Having that droppod assigned to them feels a bit redundant. Other wise it looks really good!

Ah, but you are forgetting 2 things:

1. You don't have to split off the Wolf Guard, so they can act as a cheap suicide Melta unit in the event you need one. Flexibility in deployment is nice.

2. You want an odd number of Drop Pods due to how the Drop Pod Assault rule works. 4 Drop Pods means 2 come in on Turn 1, but 5 Drop Pods means 3 come in on Turn 1. So yes, most of the time that Drop Pod will come down empty, but that's okay. That lets you either hold back units (by deploying an empty pod on Turn 1) or really slam the opponent with an entire extra unit. Again, flexibility in deployment is key.

Remember, games are won and lost in the Deployment Phase

So leave the drop pod with the wolf guard and the grey hunters without one. then fill up the rest of the list with...maybe a thunderwolf?

Final List I think:



HQ:
Wolf Lord with Wolf’s claw and Storm shield, Thunderwolf mount, wolf tail talisman, Saga of the Bear and two fenrisian woves: 245Pts
Rune Priest TDA, chooser of the slain, JOTWW, Murderous Hurricane 130 Pts

Sub: 375 Pts


Elites:
5 x Wolf Guard 4x TDA & Combi-Melta, 1x TDA & CML: 215 Pts
1 x Drop Pod: 35 Pts
4 x Wolf Guard with Combi-Melta: 92pts
1 x Drop Pod: 35 Pts

Sub: 377 Pts

Troops:
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Rhino: 35 Pts
8 x Grey Hunters, 1 x meltagun, 1 x wolf standard,: 135 Pts
1 x Drop Pod: 35 Pts

Sub: 675 Pts

Fast Attack:
3 x Thunderwolf Cavalry with 2 storm shields and 1 power fist: 225 Pts

Sub: 225 Pts

Heavy Support:
6 x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1 x squad leader: 170 Pts
6 x Long Fangs with 3 x missile launchers, 2 x Lascannons and 1 x squad leader: 170 Pts

Sub: 340 Pts

Total Points: 1992

Now this could be just me, but might it not be a bad idea to drop some stuff to make all the grey hunters 10man (free special weapon), or do you really need to join the WG to them?

I'll take it on board and figure it out, your name is tactical genius so I should probably listen , but on the whole I think the list is just about done. Thank you all for the advice.

wolf guard leading your grey hunters can be very nice, give them TDA to soak up some fire to make your grey hunters more survivable. Dont discount that extra point of leadership and being able to take a challenge from a bloodthirster if required too. There are tactical advantages to having a WGPL leading your grey hunters, but sometimes 10 man is better. Swings and roundabouts, play both and see which you prefer.

Oddly I can still find points to do the TDA armor. Thanks!