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Trying a distinct change to my previous 1K list (I decided that the Forgeworld folks weren't kidding when they said the lists were designed for larger games, especially with the restrictions imposed by the Rites of War and was recently schooled about some of the limitations of assault marines).

HQ -- 157 -- Librarian
Psyker Mastery Level 2
Cataphractii Terminator Armor (2+/4++)
Force weapon
Combi-weapon

E -- 230 -- Contemptor Dreadnought
(13 Front Armor & 5++ invuln save, Fleet)
Kheres Autocannon (24" S6 AP4 Heavy6 Rending)
TL Lascannon
Havoc Launcher (48" S5 AP5 Heavy1 Small Blast TL)

E -- 170 -- Legion Dreadnought
Flamestorm Cannon
DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer
HK Missile (x2)

T -- 174 -- Tactical Squad
6x Bolter, BP & CCW
3x Bolter, BP
Sgt w/ Combi-weapon

T -- 270 -- Breacher Siege Squad
All w/ Boarding Shields (6++ 5++cc defensive grenades)
7x Bolter
1 Flamer
1 Melta
Sgt w/ Combi-weapon and Breacher Charge

Total: 1001

The general attack plan is to advance the Breacher squad behind the Dreads & Librarian (Probably w/ Divination & Telekinesis -- hoping for the teleport or dome powers), using them for cover, while the regular tac squad holds any objectives in my deployment zone or does the same.

I'm a little concerned by having only two scoring units in that setup, so one alteration I'd contemplate would be to drop the regular dread for a small reconnaissance Squad (5 models w/ cameoline and mix of bolters/BP & CCW, sgt w/ combi wep & PW with either Power Armor (scout) or Recon Armor (4+ and infil + move through cover). ... or a Tac Support Squad (4 identical special weapons (flamers/plas rifle/meltagun) + Sgt) ... note that while troops, neither the Recon or Support Squads can be taken as compulsory troop choices).

Let me know what you think

Apostasus wrote:
Trying a distinct change to my previous 1K list (I decided that the Forgeworld folks weren't kidding when they said the lists were designed for larger games, especially with the restrictions imposed by the Rites of War and was recently schooled about some of the limitations of assault marines).

HQ -- 157 -- Librarian
Psyker Mastery Level 2
Cataphractii Terminator Armor (2+/4++)
Force weapon
Combi-weapon

nice HQ, any particular legion that you are going for ?

E -- 230 -- Contemptor Dreadnought
(13 Front Armor & 5++ invuln save, Fleet)
Kheres Autocannon (24" S6 AP4 Heavy6 Rending)
TL Lascannon
Havoc Launcher (48" S5 AP5 Heavy1 Small Blast TL)

this guy seems a little all over the place... assault cannon, lascannon AND havoc launcher ? the thing i find with putting 2 ranged weapons on a dread is to give them similar stats so you can shoot them all, all the time, like maybe 2 assault cannons ? or 2 lascannons ? 1 of each just makes him not know what he really wants to do....

E -- 170 -- Legion Dreadnought
Flamestorm Cannon
DCCW w/ Heavy Flamer
HK Missile (x2)

This guy on the other hand, he knows exactly what he wants to do. he should be fun to use

T -- 174 -- Tactical Squad
6x Bolter, BP & CCW
3x Bolter, BP
Sgt w/ Combi-weapon

good solid choice, cant get enough bolters in the heresy

T -- 270 -- Breacher Siege Squad
All w/ Boarding Shields (6++ 5++cc defensive grenades)
7x Bolter
1 Flamer
1 Melta
Sgt w/ Combi-weapon and Breacher Charge

Total: 1001

once again, solid choice, but maybe take 2 of 1 special weapon instead of 1 of 2 different ones ?

The general attack plan is to advance the Breacher squad behind the Dreads & Librarian (Probably w/ Divination & Telekinesis -- hoping for the teleport or dome powers), using them for cover, while the regular tac squad holds any objectives in my deployment zone or does the same.

just so you know, in heresy your librarians can only use 1 dicipline, so you cant split your powers between them, i may be wrong but im sure thats what i read....

I'm a little concerned by having only two scoring units in that setup, so one alteration I'd contemplate would be to drop the regular dread for a small reconnaissance Squad (5 models w/ cameoline and mix of bolters/BP & CCW, sgt w/ combi wep & PW with either Power Armor (scout) or Recon Armor (4+ and infil + move through cover). ... or a Tac Support Squad (4 identical special weapons (flamers/plas rifle/meltagun) + Sgt) ... note that while troops, neither the Recon or Support Squads can be taken as compulsory troop choices).

Let me know what you think

dont be too concerned about only having 2 scoring units, heresy is meant to be more fun than competitive (yes holding objectives helps win, but you dont have to get stuck up on it) just have fun. The recon squads i found are rather good with snipers actually - power armour, cameleons and snipers are a nice combo IMO
the problem i find with support squads is that they become very expensive very fast, which in a 1000 point list is not the best thing

hope this helps

I would recommend the following.

Librarian w/ artificer, refractor, volkite charger - 10 pts cheaper and more effective

The contemptor should probably be dedicated to one set of weapons. At 1k not alot of high armor vehicles. So 2 kheres AC would net you 12 rending shots, drop the missile launcher - 20 points saved. Great crowd control and light vehicle popper.

Dreadnought is anti troop from the look so ditch the HK missiles. - 20 pts saved.

Breacher squad is expensive at that point level but its good solid unit that can take punishment. Though figure what you want them to do, target troops or vehicle/high armor targets then adjust special weapons to reflect.

So you should have 50 points left over, thats enough to add 5 marines to the tactical squad, making it more effective or if you drop th dreadnought then thats 220 points to hook up a dedicated plasma support squad and 6 more tactical.

Thing to remember with marines, especially legion, is to keep the units dedicated to 1 role each and enough room to support each other. At 1k you will have low vehicle count but higher troop count, so a combination of s6/7 weapons will easily deal with all comers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
These are just suggestions based on what your using, always use what you like first and foremost or you probably wont have fun. HH games can get intense, its a new way of playing with lots of neat stuff. Just keep in mind what you want each unit to do and then dedicate them to that role.

Right now it looks like a hodge podge force of stuff you like but with a few tweaks it could improve performance.

One thing I forgot to mention in this post (that I did in my other list attempt) is that this list will likely need to be at least semi-competitive against 'modern' codex armies, as I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that goes to the FLGC that has shelled out for the book. So any additional thoughts on how I'd fare against tau, dark eldar, CSM and DA are most welcome.

nice HQ, any particular legion that you are going for ?

Sons of Horus -- love both the color scheme & iconography

A note on the Dread weapon choices: I went with the HK missiles on the standard dread to give him some long range punch, as both of his other weapons are templates -- I figured they would at least give him something to do as he's closing range.

The thinking was sorta similar on the Contemptor and taking the lascannon, wanting to have a longer ranged weapon (and something to potentially crack the land raider that the local DA player has been known to take in even 1K games)... I'd be more open to switching the lascannon to a TL-Autocannon (keeping the range but having a similar target profile for the Kheres). ... The havoc was also there for range and, frankly, to give me an extra option for weapon destroyed results (reducing the chance I'll lose one of the weapons I really want). But it also sorta fits better w the Kheres/TLAC combo

Also, what are your thoughts on extra armor for the dreads? Given their role as spearheads of the advance, it would sorta suck to lose a round of movement from a 'stunned' result (and the switch from LC to AC on the contemptor would free up the points for it on both).

Breacher squad is expensive at that point level but its good solid unit that can take punishment. Though figure what you want them to do, target troops or vehicle/high armor targets then adjust special weapons to reflect.

If I make the switch from LC to AC on the dread, I will probably switch these guys to 2 meltas and a combi-melta as the dreads will probably have my horde problems taken care of between 'em

Librarian w/ artificer, refractor, volkite charger - 10 pts cheaper and more effective

Probably will do this -- 12 points is probably a bit much for a 4++ save vs 5++

Any other thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The recon squads i found are rather good with snipers actually - power armour, cameleons and snipers are a nice combo IMO

How do you configure your squad (size-wise and weapons mix? And what kinds of targets do you take on w/ 'em? All I hear from the local folks about SM/DA snipers is that they're pretty useless/never cause wounds/etc.

Cant help with the recon squad, im still on the fence with them. They look good on paper, give them a try. Instead of them, im looking to the seeker squad...personal choice since they are more like a kill team...im a fan of deathwatch.

I see what your saying about the dreadnoughts and i agree a little more with your thoughts on them. I usually bypass extra armor, yeah it sucks for being stunned but if you advance with the contemptor, or not, that contemptor will be taking more fire then anything. If you have a few points laying around then do it. I would keep the assault cannon and las cannon at that point level on the contemptor.

If your stuck deciding then go with your original list, find out what works and what does work. Just keep note of the game so you can ask yourself...what helped and what would have helped.

JAO249 wrote:Cant help with the recon squad, im still on the fence with them. They look good on paper, give them a try. Instead of them, im looking to the seeker squad...personal choice since they are more like a kill team...im a fan of deathwatch.

My next move as I go up to the 1500 point level is probably going to be a destroyer squad & Moritat Consul (125 points for Artificer Armor, Refractor Field plasma pistol and Jump Pack -- probably so good it's broken with chain fire on the plas pistol) as I really like jump troops, but am thinking assault marines are less useful/overpriced given some 6th ed rules changes (not being able to use the JP to both move and assault, primarily)... so the destroyers w/ counter attack and the scout move of the Moritat strike me as one of the better options for them.

I see what your saying about the dreadnoughts and i agree a little more with your thoughts on them. I usually bypass extra armor, yeah it sucks for being stunned but if you advance with the contemptor, or not, that contemptor will be taking more fire then anything. If you have a few points laying around then do it. I would keep the assault cannon and las cannon at that point level on the contemptor.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the Kheres/TL AC combo - the higher ROF for the AC feels better in terms of taking advantage of the BS5.

Also I remembered that the DA player who brings the LR also likes to put the librarian w/ wargear that gives everything w/in 6" a 4++ save in the blasted thing ... so large #s of melta hits/rending kheres hits is probably my best bet at taking that thing down anyway. (The Moritat w/ plasma may be reserved for games against this chap as the Volkite Serpenta is probably quite vicious enough against most opponents and less likely to have people refuse to play against me afterwards )

That said, I'm almost certainly going to try to model-magnet the TL AC arm so I can try out the lascannon or dual kheres patterns later.

Speaking of modeling -- I found myself fairly tempted by the idea of using a GK model for the Librarian... the more intricate armor of the GK (esp. compared to Heresy/Crusade era) seems like an appropriate rep for artificer and I have options for which FW I want to use (halberd --> axe). Would that strike you (and anyone else who feels like chiming in) as kosher?

Also w/ the Librarian -- I'm leaning towards divination for my single psyker option (Warp Angels was right about that above) as the primaris power is better than telekinesis (as is the invuln save power)... But part of me really likes the hope of getting the TK teleport power ... probably a bad move, right?

Any chance you can find the points to invest in a rhino or otherwise something to enhance the survivability and mobility of the tactical squad? i feel the biggest issue you may find is mobile scoring units, other than that, I think this list shows some improvement.

Tightening up what you have in mind with the contemptor will be beneficial to you, as each unit in your army should have a specific role, lest they be master of none.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Any chance you can find the points to invest in a rhino or otherwise something to enhance the survivability and mobility of the tactical squad? i feel the biggest issue you may find is mobile scoring units, other than that, I think this list shows some improvement.

(whine) But I don't like rhinos (/whine)

More seriously though that's probably a good idea... I'm just a bit loathe to spend the $ on a model I am hoping not to use as I expand the list (as you know from my previous list, as I build out, I'm hoping to use a Praetor with the Orbital Assault rite of war, so rhinos would be out) and finding the 85 points for a Dreadclaw is harder (and would have to go for one of the Dreads at least initially -- though it could swoop in, pick up a squad later in the game and deposit them elsewhere if it survives that long). Also, when I was poking through my basement I think I may have seen a rhino kit that I didn't assemble from back in the day... (though it might be a bit smaller than today's rhinos ).

Another modeling question to add to the mix -- thinking about the weapons load of the Contemptor Dread the thought came to me "he's like a mini Reaver Titan" ... so then I thought, "wait, can I use an epic 40K reaver titan model for him?"

Here's a photo I found around the nets showing scale of the Epic models vs 40K
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lkyzA13nVQc/ThZjOZQXOHI/AAAAAAAABPY/2DZxp-Wn78s/s1600/epic_model_size_titan_28mmmarine.JPG

I'm thinking the Epic Reaver might be a bit small/shorter than the Contemptor, and I wouldn't want to be accused of MFA (even though IMO I'd be Modeling for Awesome )

What do y'all think?