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Hey Dakka,

I am having a devil of a time beating Chaos Marines with my BA. I have played 3 games so far and have been tabled 3 times.....

My friend is a real nice dude, and we have a ton of fun when we play, but I would like to not get tabled the next time we play. I will try and get his list as accurate as possible. He was playing:

Abaddon

Juggerlord w/ Axe and 2x Spawn

3x Terminators w/ combi-melta

3x Terminators w/ combi-melta

8x CSM w/ Melta, Fist, MoK, Rhino w/ Dirge Caster

8x CSM w/ Flamer, 2x LC, MoK, Rhino w/ Dirge Caster

10x plauge bearers with a lesser deamon upgrade (not sure what they are called..)

3x obliterators

5x havocs w/ 4x auto cannons

Hell Drake

ADL w/ Quad

All of his units had VotLW (Hatred thing)

My list was as follows:

Libby w/ Divination

HG w/ 4x PG and DP

ASM x10 w/ 2x Melta, PW

ASM x10 w/ 2x Melta, PW

ASM x10 w/ 2x Flamer, PW

Stormraven w/ Hurricane Bolters, AC, MM

Stormraven w/ Hurricane Bolters, AC, MM

ADL w/ Quadgun

Njal in TDA

10x GH w/ 2x Plasmaguns, MotW, Power Sword.

Thoughts on what I can do to make my list better? I really struggle against Abby and the Juggylord...

The honor guard are very juicy targets; expensive and aren't any harder to kill than anything else.

With dual raven, I'd go comm link instead of quad gun.

I'd get at least one sanguinary priest.

With three ASM squads, I'd consider shield of sanguinius over divination.

This list overall looks like it lacks the shooting to deal with Abbadon before its too late.

Just realize you are up against an updated CSM army using a gimped 5th edition codex. My win rate is about 40ish% with BA. I've had tons of 3 loss streaks at that rate.

I think i will switch the quad for the comm. I was hoping for some lucky intercept shots to take out the flame chicken. What stinks, in my book, is that all of our named chacters are just so-so now with AP3 weapons or I1 swings....nothing can touch Abby at initiative or get through a 2+ without getting hit first or going simo.

If i were to drop the HG, roughly 200 points, what would be a good alternative unit?

The quad gun basically has a zero chance of killing a hellturkey.

BA HQs are not just so-so. They are awful. Call a spade a spade.

Abbadon must be shot. Period. There is an entire thread dedicated to his beastliness.

I'd get some more shooting with the 200 pts. Like MM attack bikes. They can move 12" and penetrate any armor in the list. And be given FNP by a biker priest.

No.idea how you're getting tabled. His list isn't even a remotely competitive csm list.

Hahaha, well I did knock two hull points off the hell drake with interceptor. One being a pen so there is a chance of getting it killed turn one.

And yes, they are aweful. But we have to make do with what we have lol. Libbys!!!

Cool, I am actually working on that squad right now. Have the models, just need to get them assembled and painted. I have this thing about playing with non-painted units.....just makes me cringe. I am also waiting on a apothocary arm for my priest.

Abbadon is a more than a mouthful for most of our hq... mepheston might have the best shot with a force weapon...If you are looking to expand your army I have him as well as some other metal blood angels I'm looking to part with for 50% retail.

Pm if interested

He is a beast. I do have mephi, but since Abaddon is an EW, no Force Weapon for him........

i've done it numerous times with BA against nurgle marines and what i discovered...don't take infantry and have mephiston or a lib dread with str 10 to beat their T value and remove feel no pain which ends them quickly

mephistons now only has a force sword which means he can headbutt his way through a land rider but will do nothing agianst terminators (what gives!!!!).

your currnetly using an assalty list aginst another assalty army so its nothing but a bitter melee and as you dont have super powerful deathstar units he has advantage and you will lose

You need moar DAKKA!!

i think that stormravens can be equiped with plasma cannons that can kill marines for you

undernote of abbaon their is a way to kill him, dirty but easy to pull off, get your units to camp some cover and get a guy with a powerfist (or any ap 2 weapon) to sit in it alongside some plasma buddies. abbadon has NO GRENADES like terminators if he charges you in cover he will strike at intative 1 and then you can knock some wounds off him with the fist. if hes aware of this then he will be reulctant to charge and you can fill him up with plasma at range. it dimnishes his effectiveness in cc and thats his only asset, just make sure he doesnt get in a squad with nades

The math of Mephiston vs Abbadon is heavily in Abbadon's favor. However, Mephiston does kill plague marines like a champ and doesn't give a rat's behind about the helldrake's flamer or vector strikes.