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Any thoughts on the following 1850 space marine list:
HQ - captain ( relic blade, artificer armor) 145 pts
T - tac squad ( rhino, sb, hk, flamer, mm, pf) 250 pts
T - tac squad ( rhino , sb, hk, plasma rifle, lascannon, melta bomb) 250 pts
T - scou snipers ( ml, cloaks) 100 pts
E - LODS ( 8 man, mm, plasma pistol, flamer) 310 pts
E - dread ( drop pod, sb) 150
F - assault squad ( 10 man, 2 flamer, combat shield, pf) 240 pts
F- vanguard vets ( 4 melta bombs, 1 ps, jump packs) 195 pts
H - devastators( 2 ml, 2 las) 190 pts

You spent a lot more points on upgrades then I would.

Where is your captain going? Both your tac squads are full in their rhinos, and he doesn't have a jump pack to keep up with the assault troops. While I like his gear selection, I would either get him a jump pack, or combat squad one of the tacs with a razorback and use them as an ad-hoc command squad. Or replace him with a jump chaplain.

I'd not bother with adding extra guns/missiles to the rhinos. Run them bare. Not a big fan of fists on sergeants. But if you take that squad and put it in a razor with the cap, the sarge doesn't need to worry about being punked in a challenge, so can crush things all he wants.

Scouts are good

LotD are very pricy. Those kind of points will get you a full sternguard squad in a drop pod. Not sure if the flamer and PP are worth the investment. S&P MM can be fun though. They do look cool though, but are widely regarded as one of the sub-par units in out codex.

Drop dreads are a classic disruption units. Might add the HF incase there are some infantry that need killing though.

I prefer 5 man assault squads. Smaller footprint makes it easier to keep out of LOS and hug cover. Once again, not a big fan of fists on sarges. I'd go with a sword and meltabombs.

Vanguard are another units oft criticized as being overpriced. Be careful with them, they die just as easy as normal marines. I would swap most of the melta bombs for another power weapon. Many vehicles have AV10 in the back, so krack grenades should be fine for opening them up. This unit should only be tank hunting as last resort though, you want to be mulching infantry.

If you are going to be using the Devs to tank hunt, I'd run 3xML, 1xLC to keep the points down a bit. Once again, you have honed in on the more expensive options in the codex. Not that they can't get the job done, they just charge a premium to do it.

Overall I like your list. You have a pretty good mix of firepower. No AA fire, but that's not a big deal in some places. You have picked a few units that are a little sub-par, but flavorful. Normally I only include one of those in a list at a time. But you should be able to do OK on the table, depending on how competitive your environment is.

Listen to Nevelon, he knows his stuff. I just want to add on a few things:

1) Rhinos:
Remember, rhinos come with a storm bolter automatically, you're paying for two (which you don't need). Rhinos aren't killers, they're just runners. Lose the HKs. You're getting 2 missile shots for 20 points, which (imo) isn't worth it.

2) Power Fists
Power fists are, imo, largely obsolete in space marine lists. For cheaper you can get a power axe, which does mostly the same things and is ten points cheaper. A power maul has similar benefits (and doesn't make you I1, though it does lose the AP2).
If you're worried about vehicles, melta-bombs will outperform the pf against vehicles every time, and they're 20 points cheaper.
Really, the PF is great on units tougher than a normal space marine (termies) but aside from that it's not going to help you're regular marines/assault marines that much. They're wasted points (imo)

3) Legion of the Damned
Compare Legion of the damned to sternguard. Sternguard are cheaper, output more damage, and have the option to take all kinds of dedicated transports. LotD's only saving grace are their 3++ save. That would be okay, but sadly, that 3++ save isn't worth the points.
It's really a tragedy, the Legion of the damned are very cool, but they're essentially as weak as regular marines (they still die on a 1 or 2), and massed fire will kill them off easily. Though protected from AP3, armies without AP3 still kill them as easily as normal marines, for almost double the price. If a new codex lowers their price, or gives them more goodies, they'll be useful. Until then, they're really going to have trouble making up their points.

4) Assault Marines
The 'Nilla dex has trouble making assault marines work, typically because they aren't better than normal marines in assault. They gain 6" movement, an extra close attack weapon, but lose their rapid fire bolters. They also usually underperform compared to other CC specialists, and when they do massacre units in combat, most marine units would do just as well. As well, using rhinos/razorbacks/drop pods, those marines can get up the field just as fast, while staying safe in a box.
For this reason the vanguard vets, who only gain better weapons and a single attack (for a premium price) are often put down. Especially given that they only have a 3+ save. Adding power weapons, etc. to them can make them essentially as expensive as an assault terminator, without the 2+/3++ save.

Assault squads are somewhat viable, and they do work cheap (or cheap with 2 flamers). Taking ten man squads you combat-squad them, send them up utilizing cover, and then go to town annoying things. A melta-bomb is probably a good idea, but the PF, combat-shiled (though very cool looking) are 30 points that could be put to use elsewhere.

Overall:
Don't get me wrong, this is a neat list, and if (from a flavor standpoint) it's what you want, then please by all means, keep the list as is.

However, from a competitive standpoint, you have put a bunch of extra points into units that probably won't give you the bang for your buck.

Thanks for the suggestions. I was planning on keeping the captain in the rear with the snipers and devastators in a building or ruin. My focus is mostly anti tau. I've tried a similar list that worked very well against eldar but since the models and dex for tau they are very popular where I play.

If you are going for a hang back and chill HQ, I'd go with either a bare-bones librarian, or a MotF, possibly with the c-beamer.

The captain is a pure beatstick. If he's not out crushing skulls, you are playing at a ~150 point handicap. The librarian can sit back and use table altering psychic powers. The MotF bolsters a ruin just by being there, and has a nice array of war gear standard. Both of these guys can contribute from the back field, for less points.

That's a very good point, but I recently realized that there is a lot of tau weaponry that ignores cover saves. I guess this would be better suited for the following question would be better suited for the tactics section, but would drop pod assault be effective on tau?

I'd say drop pods would get you in their faces quickly. Of course, you're going to take interceptor fire and a full round of regular fire afterwards.

Martel732 wrote:
I'd say drop pods would get you in their faces quickly. Of course, you're going to take interceptor fire and a full round of regular fire afterwards.

I was going to say "If you survive the trip down from orbit, you should be fine"

My understanding is that tau have the potential for a lot of interceptor fire. That could get ugly. But in a close range firefight, I think we can win.

You are paying a bucketload for the tactical squads. I mean you could get some fliers, or a squad of drop podding sternguard for that price. Just a bit of perspective.


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Legion of the danmed and no terminators... I'd e very interested to see how this turns out. You might revolutionise Space marine strategy. *nudge nudge*


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Great combo of plasma, anti tank and templates, plascannon and flamers alike.