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Tell me what you think about this list of 2k GK if I go against Tau :

Hq:
Ordo Malleus Inq w/ Terminator armor + TH + Psycannon + lvl 1 mastery (Prescience) + 2x servo skulls 116
Brotherhood champion 100 (He joins Purifiers in Rhino)

Troops:
10x Terminator Squad w/ 2x Psycannons + 8x Halberds + 2x TH + psybolts + Justicar Thawn (combat squad-->2x psycannons+3x termies with Inq ,Thawn+4x termies DP) 545
10x GKSS w/ 2x Psycannons + 7x swords + 1 TH + psybolts (hammer on regular marine) (this unit DS) 250
10x GKSS w/ 2x Psycannons + 7x swords + 1 TH + psybolts (hammer on regular marine) 250

Elite:
7x Purifier Squad w/ 5x halberds + 2x Incinarators + rhino 218


Heavy Support:
1x DK w/ personal teleporter + heavy Incinarator + Greatsword 260
1x DK w/ personal teleporter + heavy Incinarator + Greatsword 260


These are 1999 points. I haven't use Brotherhood champion for a long time now as I wasn't sure he's worth it... also I don't think he'll have flyers that's why not AA at all..
So how does this look ??

I'd swap the brotherhood champion for coteaz, then lose some upgrades somewhere to make that purifier squad 10 man with 4 psycannons. Lose Thawn, he isn't really worth it.

As a tau player, I'd criticize having rhinos. It is going to be the tau player's First Blood score.

Then again, you face the classic Plants Versus Zombies problem: How to get across the table before getting shot to pieces.

I'd try to Deep Strike as much as possible. I don't own the GK 'dex so I forget just who can pop in besides Termies and DKs ... and amazingly, GK has kinda disappeared from the local meta so my memory is getting lax.

40 models seems really thin at 2k. I know that's how GK rolls, but GK *dies* just like other marines do. Can you put more bodies on the table? Less upgrades and bling to have points for more dudes? I know GK fight better than regular marines, but you won't need any better fighting against any tau unit.

Thanks for commenting firstly !!

Now at Tactical_Genius :

Nice suggestions for a more dakka list !! Actually I can add 4x psycannons with rerolls + another divination power exchanging Brotherhood champion and Thawn but then I'm thinking do I really want to get on a shooting competition with tau (let alone I need to get at 24") ?? That's why I included Brotherhood champion and Thawn in oreder to get a more cc list ..Now for Thawn I agree that 75 points for an upgrade sound to much but then think what he's capable of : a) Every turn he's down he get's up in a roll of "4" and (the best of it IMO) can act normally ,meaning he can move 6" -shoot ( ok not really the point) -assault engaging one unit (let's say 12 FW) in cc and on top of that he counts as one more troop choice (taking points +being a denial unit + earn linebreaker VP) b) previously those where the benefits if he "died" and was an one-man-unit thereafter , now in the whole termie unit as a lvl 2 psyker he enables you to cast hammerhand + activate the unit's force weapons in either players turn (really good IMO) and as lvl 2 psyker don't forget he can deny the witch at a "5" or even a "4" !!

Dice will always be dice in this game but I think Thawn has a place in almost every list (including termies) IMHO.


At Brothererekose :

Rhinos are an easy FB I can't agree more ,but (and there always be a "but" there ) I feel that everyone who writes down this particular statement considers that there aren't gonna be any terrain pieces which will block LOS... If that was the point then GG for Tau and IG (stolen from another thread ) ..Let's assume that I'll play second ..I 'll probably hide my rhino behind something (it's not impossible) ,actually as a Tau army can out-range me I'll probably hide everything and this is possible (we are talking for 2x DK ,1x rhino and 6x Termies) ..Now in my first turn I can jump with my DK in front of the opponent's army and bake 2x units of FW / Croot / Pathfinders (Incinerators being Ap4 is nasty for Tau) taking FB but then again I think I'll sacrifice my baby carriers.. I was actually thinking instead of this that I should better move my DKs 12"+1d6 run and Rhino 12"+6" with turbo boost (in 18'' I'll probably find another terrain piece to hide it again ,yeah I know that sounds like "my marines are ninjas" ) keep the other unit's in cover moving a little and in my second round I'll jump the DKs or even move another 12" and even assault after I fire my up to 20'' (template is about 8" + 12" the weapon's special rule) heavy incinarators while I DS 5x Termies + 20x GKSS (which also give my opponent multiple targets instead of just my DKs). So third round and the rhino delivered the package!!

Yeah there are only 40 models in the list but I have the feeling that I'll be close enough the Tau and I think this is the real problem for them..

Does anyone thinks that the above are overoptimistic and overrated or my chances of this strategy being low ?? Is there a bigger picture I don't really see??

Thanks again for your comments and your time !!

 Spectral wrote:

Now at Tactical_Genius :

Nice suggestions for a more dakka list !! Actually I can add 4x psycannons with rerolls + another divination power exchanging Brotherhood champion and Thawn but then I'm thinking do I really want to get on a shooting competition with tau (let alone I need to get at 24") ?? That's why I included Brotherhood champion and Thawn in oreder to get a more cc list ..Now for Thawn I agree that 75 points for an upgrade sound to much but then think what he's capable of : a) Every turn he's down he get's up in a roll of "4" and (the best of it IMO) can act normally ,meaning he can move 6" -shoot ( ok not really the point) -assault engaging one unit (let's say 12 FW) in cc and on top of that he counts as one more troop choice (taking points +being a denial unit + earn linebreaker VP) b) previously those where the benefits if he "died" and was an one-man-unit thereafter , now in the whole termie unit as a lvl 2 psyker he enables you to cast hammerhand + activate the unit's force weapons in either players turn (really good IMO) and as lvl 2 psyker don't forget he can deny the witch at a "5" or even a "4" !!

Dice will always be dice in this game but I think Thawn has a place in almost every list (including termies) IMHO.

My opponent whom I play most often plays tau, and I used a unit of 10 purifiers with 4 psycannons with coteaz (and another inq, but it was higher points), in a commandeered chimera. Firefights DO work against tau, it's all about knowing where to strike. 16 S7 rending shots with rerolls to hit, ignores cover, and forcing the opponent to reroll successful saves works wonders against almost anything Tau... I killed two riptides with this unit.

Thawn... You are relying too much on probability... 50/50 chance is not good enough to build a tactic around. Chances are, he will die. If you deep strike his unit, riptides will interceptor a large blast on you S8 AP2, and wreck Thawn's whole unit. If you footslog, plasma will wreck them... I don't see Thawn making any sense against tau given how much he costs.

I totally agree with you that 4x psycannons with re-rolls to hit are a massive firepower instead of Bro-champion and Thawn no argues there...

But I believe the deliverance of my army in total is the critical point here..As Brothererekose pointed out vehicles are a bit untrustworthy in this eddition (AV 12 chimera included) a lesson I found out the hard way and Tau will outrange me ..Also I need to spend one round to embark those people inside and even though it has a lot of fire points psycannons will snap shot as they are considered as moving inside it..If I had paladins it might could work as they are relentless but they are not cost effective IMO ..So the option I'm considering in order to use them is taking a Grand-master for his scout ability through Grand-strategy and use them to outflank (which is also contains probability with the outflank roll) ... Meaning I have to leave Ordo Malleus with his psycannon and also drop Thawn (ok with that) + hammers and some phybolts in some units ...I' ll consider it but that totally changes the list..

Thanks for the constructive criticism and recommendations

The important parts of the list I have tabled 3 different Tau players with is:

Mordrak and Ghosts
10 GKI (2incins)
DKnight (teleporter, incin)

Mordrak appears T1 in terrain for a great cover save (with stealth).
GKI and DKnight shunt forward to distract from Mordrak, and kill two units of FW or Kroot, thus disrupting the Supporting Fire rule for T2 assaults.
The enemy cannot kill all three units, and whichever one or two is left can assault T2, wrecking Tau face.

The rest of the list can be Psyflemen or a Vindicare to pop tanks (the Vindicare can also try to kill the HQ), GKSS to move up and hold objectives, Termies to move up and get a T3 assault...whatever you feel like.

It's been very effective.

 Spectral wrote:
Thanks for commenting firstly !!


At Brothererekose :

Rhinos are an easy FB I can't agree more ,but (and there always be a "but" there ) I feel that everyone who writes down this particular statement considers that there aren't gonna be any terrain pieces which will block LOS... If that was the point then GG for Tau and IG (stolen from another thread ) ..Let's assume that I'll play second ..I 'll probably hide my rhino behind something (it's not impossible) ,actually as a Tau army can out-range me I'll probably hide everything and this is possible (we are talking for 2x DK ,1x rhino and 6x Termies) ..Now in my first turn I can jump with my DK in front of the opponent's army and bake 2x units of FW / Croot / Pathfinders (Incinerators being Ap4 is nasty for Tau) taking FB but then again I think I'll sacrifice my baby carriers.. I was actually thinking instead of this that I should better move my DKs 12"+1d6 run and Rhino 12"+6" with turbo boost (in 18'' I'll probably find another terrain piece to hide it again ,yeah I know that sounds like "my marines are ninjas" ) keep the other unit's in cover moving a little and in my second round I'll jump the DKs or even move another 12" and even assault after I fire my up to 20'' (template is about 8" + 12" the weapon's special rule) heavy incinarators while I DS 5x Termies + 20x GKSS (which also give my opponent multiple targets instead of just my DKs). So third round and the rhino delivered the package!!

Yeah there are only 40 models in the list but I have the feeling that I'll be close enough the Tau and I think this is the real problem for them..

Does anyone thinks that the above are overoptimistic and overrated or my chances of this strategy being low ?? Is there a bigger picture I don't really see??

Thanks again for your comments and your time !!

I think you missed his point about giving tau first blood. Several tau weapons and marker lights make them homing which means they don't need LOS to shoot. iE. Seeker missiles, Smart missile system, so thinking cover is going to save them is a tactical mistake. I would go with drop pods if possible rhinos are too squishy against tau.

seshem76 you are totally right !!! Silly me I haven't thought of that but I guess this shows my inexperience with the new Tau ...Thanks for the feedback !! a! there are no DPods in GK codex but we can DS our "tactical" squad a.k.a GKSS and we have these personal teleporters that enables a unit to teleport itself 30'' across the table (ignoring terrain pieces ) just so you know .

Which takes me to Elric Greywolf !! Elric when I said that maybe I 'll add a Grand-master , Mordrak was on my mind (as he's also a grand-master) but with him on the list I should change my tactics from 2nd round being in tau face to alpha strike ...and yes if I go with this tact then I'll surely need Interceptors in order to give multiple targets to my opponent as you said .Great feedback from you too thanks a lot !!!!

Thank you all for your excellent suggestions people!!!!

Just gonna point out that psycannons don't need to snap fire because they moved while in a vehicle, as they are heavy 4 or assault 2.