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If a flyer or MC has only one weapon like the hell drake. How can it make a vector strike on its movement and then attack with the same weapon in the shooting phase? When the last paragraph of vector strike says it counts as that weapon being fired. Could someone clear up my confusion. Thanks

The Vector Strike doesn't use the Baleflamer or Autocannon to work. All that line means is that the model can fire one less weapon in the shooting phase than normally allowed. For FMCs, this means they only get one weapon. For a Heldrake, that's "only" 3 weapons, which is inconsequential, as a Heldrake only has a single weapon.

klinticuss wrote:
When the last paragraph of vector strike says it counts as that weapon being fired.

That's not what the rule says.
It counts as firing a weapon.
The Heldrake is allowed to fire 4 weapons at combat/cruising speed.
Vector Strike is one, Baleflamer is two. Other two are wasted.

Exactly.

P1. A model which Vector Strikes counts as having fired a weapon in the following shooting phase, for number of weapons allowed to be fired.
P2. A Zooming flyer is allowed to fire up to 4 weapons.
P3. A Monstrous Creature is allowed to fire up to 2 weapons.
C1. An FMC which Vector Strikes will still be able to fire 1 weapon.
C2. A Zooming Flyer which Vector Strikes will still be able to fire up to 3 weapons.

I understand the wording can make it sound ambiguous but the deciding factor for me was it's implementation. An FMC like a Winged Hive Tyrant, without being equipped with any ranged weapons, can make a vector strike and count as having fired one weapon. Is it equipped with a weapon that counts as having been fired? No. So it counts as having fired one weapon but not with a weapon it is equipped with. If that makes any sense lol.

Yes it's confusing if its over thought. Just because its not equipped with a weapon doesn't mean you cannot vector strike.

Just means you would loose one weapon if you had any.

Vector strike away.

Though I realise it's not technically correct, the best way to get your head around it is to think of Vector Strike as another weapon the model gets by virtue of having the rule.

Lungpickle wrote:
Yes it's confusing if its over thought. Just because its not equipped with a weapon doesn't mean you cannot vector strike.

Just means you would loose one weapon if you had any.

Vector strike away.

This would be a misapplication of the rule unfairly applying it differently to different units without proper cause.

Well, except for the cause stating you count as having fired a weapon if you vector strike. If you dont have a weapon, you may still vector strike

Or are you saying it is unfair that genestealers can run, despite not being able to shoot?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Well, except for the cause stating you count as having fired a weapon if you vector strike. If you dont have a weapon, you may still vector strike

Or are you saying it is unfair that genestealers can run, despite not being able to shoot?

I was simply promoting a reading that effects units in the same manor across the board. Genstealers can run instead of shooting regardless of the fact that shooting is not an option for them because the rules for running effect them the same way as they effect other units. Those rules are clear though that running is done instead of shooting.

In this case all units that make a vector strike count as having fired one weapon during the following shooting phase. There's a couple different valid ways to take the rule as it is stated but one way is RAW problematic IMO and the other is not.

If a unit has three ranged weapons how would you determine which weapon it counted as having fired? I doesn't say to determine randomly or to allow a player to decide.In a permissive rule set you wouldn't do it because there are no rules for it and so no way of proceeding. The rule does not tell you to determine a weapon that fired at all, it does not even say counts as having fired one of it's weapons. Only that it counts as having fired a weapon. So unless you want to bring Schrodingers cat into the shooting phase it can only be determined that it counts as having fired an undermined weapon which may or may not be listed anywhere and has no properties or rules for use.

I pose that it makes more sense to determine (of the different ways this rule can be read) that what is meant is that the unit simply counts as having fired a weapon without regard for any weapons it may have equipped. As opposed to a reading that says it counts as having fired one of it's equipped weapons which would lead you far outside RAW in many cases trying to determine which one it counts as having fired with.

... How is that different from what Nos has said?

Did it sound like I meant to disagree with him on something?

Abandon:

It counts as having fired a weapon indeed.

Next shooting phase, this just means it can fire one less weapon than usual, i.e. my beloved flyrant can now shoot only once in the Shooting Phase. With which weapon doesn't matter. Even if he doesn't actually ranged weapons, it still works. I don't see where the problem is here.

Yes, all the rule means is that you can fire one less weapon in the shooting phase - it does NOT mean that you have actually fired one of your weapons.

There is, RAW, no possible way to read the sentence such that you end up having lost the ability to fire one specific weapon