Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey I would like some feedback. I have several lists planned that are tailored towards different armies.
But I feel that my main will look something like this...

HQ: Belial = 190 points
HQ: Command Squad w/ 1 combi plasma + Standard of Devastation =165 points
HQ: Company Master w/ Power-field Generator + Lions Roar = 140 points

Elites
1x5 Deathwing Terminator Squad w/ THSS + Cyclone Missile Launcher = 221 points

Troops
1x10 Deathwing Terminator Squad w/ Assault Cannon + Cyclone Missile Launcher = 441 points

3 x 10 Tactical Squad w/ Plasma gun + plasma Cannon + power fist = 585 points

Total = 1850 points

My concerns:

1. Enough tank busting and ranged weaponry? at my local club it seems most people have abandoned vehicles with 6th edition rules.
2. Enough bodies? Total of 50+2 bodies
3. Should I swap the power fists to add another unit? That would fit a Whirlwind and I'd love to have one of those hiding in my deployment zone.
4. Have I invested way too many points into my HQ selections?
5. Would it be wiser to swap the small Termie squad for some Devastators?
6. Are the Deathwing Knights a better choice than the THSS termies? They look cool and I like their weapons...But they don't seem as versatile and it will be nice to have that second Cyclone launcher.

Any suggestions (especially from experience) is greatly appreciated since I don't have any of that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
anybody?

I don't have my codex in front of me but your points are way off. That big DWT is 485, you didn't pay for your command squad's combi-plasma. I'm not sure about the points on the company master but you shouldn't be taking one anyway.

Tactically, you're too top heavy and you have no mobility. You're too weak on anti-armor for 1850. You need some out flanking melta bikes or preds or devs.

DW Knights are great but they're a Death Star whether in a LRC or deep striking 10 with Belial.

Personally, I don't liketo run the banner with foot tacs. You're only optimizing it against pure Zerg-rush armies. Better with ravening or raider rush.

As for your list, scoring termies are fine. DWA the big squad and use some points from the lack of command squad and Master for some bikes and ranged anti-armor/air.

Cheers.

I was going to ask, why take Belial at all for one unit of 5 scoring termies? Not that it's inherently wrong, but it seems like a huge point dump when those 5 could just go to elites and you could squat on objectives for 70 points of scouts w/camo cloaks.

Aside from that, a Libby can take a PFG and Lion's Roar and do it better for less points.

Are your TACs supposed to be mobile? I'm guessing not, with the banner and PFG. If they are stationary, it seems like you're taking a split-function army with a 10-man terminator squad and 30 TACs sitting there. You may be spread thin rather than covering multiple functions.

1. Chainfists then. 5 points each on a termie. Assaulting a vehicle always hits on a 2+, so 1 or 2 should be plenty in a list if you're concerned about tanks. Not as 100% as melta, but if you're probably not going to face tanks, why not take the cheapest option in case you run into one or two?
2. Plenty. What matters more is what you plan on doing with them.
3. Yes, I almost always put a WW on my list, but that's due to my local meta having a lot of hordes and light armor.
4. Absolutely. Well, maybe not too many points, but in the wrong places.
5. I would. Again, local meta-based.
6. Once again, it depends on your meta. They are great if you're going to assault one big item or chop through a valuable target, but seem to turn to tar on turn 2. Throw a Libby in terminator armor in with them and they can re-roll misses, which will make that first charge far more substantial, and give you at least one or two bonus hits the next round.
7. Check your points. As stated above, your first squad is actually 245 and your second is 485. 3 10-man TAC squads with just the Plas cannon & gun will run you 600 even (+75 points for the fists). That's 140-ish just by glancing at your list. Also, your own math adds up to 1740.

EDIT #4: Wow, I came off as very short/rude in that comment. I'm not trying to tear your list apart at all! Everything is meant to be constructive, I'm just a bit worn out from housework. I'll try to throw something positive in . Overall, your list looks good, and with a bit of tweaking on the points and models delivers a LOT of firepower that could shred a lot of armies.

Hope that helped!

hey guys thanks a lot for the comments!
i will respond in depth when im finishedy my shift.

@ wrong points tally: I'm sure my specific points adding was incorrect but I was using the Army Creator mobile app so I assumed it was correct overall with 1850.

@ Belial: Well I love Belial and I especially like how he can bring terminators in with no scatter. What I'm attempting to do is build a decent fluffy army but as competitive as possible using the new DA codex to the best of its ability. I actually wanted to place Belial in with the group of 10 shooty termie troops...The group of 5 assault THSS termies were to be placed 6 inches of Belial's teleport homer just as support to soak up shots (perhaps a waste of points). Because of the lack of mobility in my list, I didn't want Belial's unit hanging out to dry after their Twin-Linked Death Wing assault. I also love how Belial can turn terminators into TROOPS...Again with the lack of mobility with my army. It must be essential to have one unit of Terminators hold an objective in my opponents deployment zone...My list was depending on that to be honest.

@ mobile Tacs: no I intended to have the Command Squad sit with the Company Master (the power-field generator giving the standard bearer a 4+ invul) and two other full tactical squads be in range to receive the Dakka Banner boon as my main battle line holding an objective. The other squad I wanted to foot slog on the other side of the table and/or hold another objective closer to my deployment zone while my Deathwing Assault is the hammer blow (maybe not haha). That's why it's nice to have Belial in there because if I'm heavily depending on my Deathwing Assault blitz - I'd rather just be safe deep striking them in without any possibility of scattering. I think the best replacement to him would be a Chaplain to re-roll failed hits during assault.

@Libby: If my libby was to deep strike in with terminators...I wouldn't want to give him the PFG because doesn't it give a 4+ invul to any model (including enemies) within 3 inches...If I was to assault that could be a fail or did I totally read the rules wrong?

1. The Chainfists...You're right, I considered that...Two of my termies already have chainfists so I may as well use that for 10 points over a useless combi-plasma.
2. I think I've answered that.
3. Yeah if I drop the Dakka Standard alone that gives me one WW...Although I do love the idea of the 2/4 salvo! Lots of people seem to be against it, perhaps I should leave it out of my main list...But when fighting against light armoured horde armies like nids and Orks...I think this standard might be an essential.
4. agreed...
5. Sure I'd love some devs...My local club plays 1850 points and as I mentioned, it sounds like people are abandoning the vehicles for the most part...But you never know, maybe they're tricking me...
6. Does the Libby do this with the prescience boon from divination?
7. I'll definitely recalculate my points tomorrow. Unless my Mobile app is outdated (or was never right in the first place).

I hope I'm writing properly...Long day at work, 3am but let me explain every unit that I have access to and perhaps you guys can make further suggestions of where to go with this list.
Just keep in mind; I love Belial, shooty termies AND Tactical marines I'd prefer to have at least 3 x 10 squads of tacticals in any list - unless you can really demonstrate to me why it's not necessary. It might be tempting to swap one tactical squad for a 1x5 scout team with sniper rifles + ML. This combined with the swapping of the CS + CM Might get me my whirlwind and Dev sqaud.

HQ:
Interrogator Chaplain
Belial
Librarian
Company Master
Command Squad

Fast Attack
5 Assault troops w/ jump packs + force axe
6 Ravenwing bikes 2 w/ Plasma guns (melta would be better I think)...I tend to have a grudge against the bikes. Everyone tells me how amazing they are, but I'm more of a defensive player in all aspects. I've watched every single available 6th edition DA battle report online and I can't say I've EVER seen any good results with the ravenwing bike squads (Except when one player was cheating and incorrectly using the Dakka standard against an inexperienced 6th edition Orks player).

Troops
Something like 40+ tacticals with assorted weaponry...
15 Veterans (I intend to just use them as regular tacticals for the Guardians of the Covenant Fluff's sake). I also have lots of magnetizing to do on them and my termies especially.

Elites:
10 Deathwing Terminators
1 Deathwing Command Squad (These would be the Assault termies/Knights)

Heavy Support
1 Whirlwind
Assorted Devastators...mostly plasma cannons, 1 multi-melta, 2 las and I think 4 ML. If I was to use a Libby, I think he would be best hiding in the back with a Dev squad to re roll their failed hits.
Now question with PRESCIENCE...I thought it says the boon allows an entire UNIT to re-roll failed hits. But i've been corrected before saying it can only benefit one single model within 12 inches?

Transport
1 Rhino.

That's it for Vehicles unfortunately.

To sum it up...The changes I think are most logical now would be...

1. Drop the Dakka Standard for a WW
2. Drop the Company Master for a Rhino that will give one tactical squad more mobility. now for a more mobile tactical unit, which heavy weapon is recommended? I think plasma gun is always a great choice, perhaps a multi-melta and definitely a power fist on the sergeant.
3. recalculate my points and try to fit some Devastators in there...

Now that you see all the units I have...Please feel free to add strong suggestions. I would never be offended by any constructive criticism because that is why I'm here
And I apologise that I am so hesitant with the bikes. It might be best to get some losses under my belt to open my eyes to their importance. For now, I'd prefer to build a list without them until I get more experience.

thanks I really appreciate any criticism that is given to me!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright...Can't seem to sleep tonight.

***************
Here is a revised list

HQ:
- Belial = 190 points

-Librarian (Master Lvl 2) = 100 points
;I'm unsure if upgrading him is the right way to go. Nice to spare the points but all divination casts are 1 warp charge each (meaning mastery 2 can potentially cast two spells each turn?) Prescience is a given but getting the chance to use Foreboding, Perfect Timing, or Scrier's Gaze are interesting. The other spells could also be beneficial if I was to roll on them too.

Elites
- 1x 5 Deathwing Knights (GoTc Paladin Guard w Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven (worth it?) = 245 pints

Troops
1x 10 Terminators w/ AC, CML + x2 chain-fists and THSS on Sergeant = 500 points

1x 10 Tactical Marines w/ Multi-melta + plasma gun + power fist = 250 points
in Rhino w/ storm bolter + extra armour (50 points)...I figure if it's 1/2 small vehicles I may as well put some points into its defence. Any thoughts on the Hunter Killer missile?

1x 10 Tactical Marines w/ Plasma-cannon + plasma gun + power fist = 195 points

1x6 Scouts w/ sniper rifles + ML

Heavy Support

1 x 10 Devastators w/ 3x Las + 1 plasma cannon (Libarian here)

1x Whirlwind

Total = 1849

I feel this list would be more mobile, versatile and effective.

My concerns now are

1. Need to get some scouts asap
2. Are the upgrades on Librarian and Rhino worth it? Would it be a better points investment to increase the # of scouts?
3. Would it be wiser to have 4 las or 2 plasma cannons in the dev squad.
4. How are HKM's?

Tactical ideas and issues

1. The Devastators are in cover in my deployment zone, most likely holding an objective. They provide long range heavy support - especially to the Deep striking terminators. The Libarian will improve their shooting.
2. Belial's deep strike with a 1x10 full out shooty termie unit will do as much split fire damage as possible with Death-wing assault rules. The Paladin's deep strike safely within the range of Belial's teleport homer to distract my opponent and soak up shots with the shields. Hopefully survive long enough to smite an important target. Belial's unit will be seeking to capture and hold an objective behind enemy lines.
3. Scouts can either infiltrate on the opposite flank as the Terminators or hold an objective in my base. I'd position my Whirlwind in cover to provide better support to them.
4. Tactical Squad #1 will be advancing at forward objectives in the Rhino and can also provide support/ distraction to the scouts.
5. Tactical Squad #2 can either hold an objective in my deployment zone or advance in support of either flank (or combat squads and achieve both)
6. Can Belial only be grouped with "elite units?" Would I be forced to stick him with the Knights?

Cheers

Couple things:

Perfidious relics are useless.

Power fists in tac squads are unlikely to prove useful.

Devastators may well be in your deployment zone but they can't hold objectives; they are denial units.

I would forward deploy your Libby; use saved points from relic and power fists to give him term. Armor.

The rhino is the only vehicle in your list other than the WW. It doesn't fit. If you're dead set against bikes then you're simply going to lack mobility. If your primary concern is fluff, that's fine.

Cheers.

The Shrike wrote:
Couple things:

Perfidious relics are useless.

Power fists in tac squads are unlikely to prove useful.

Devastators may well be in your deployment zone but they can't hold objectives; they are denial units.

I would forward deploy your Libby; use saved points from relic and power fists to give him term. Armor.

The rhino is the only vehicle in your list other than the WW. It doesn't fit. If you're dead set against bikes then you're simply going to lack mobility. If your primary concern is fluff, that's fine.

Cheers.

Ok scrap the Relic.
I like the idea of power fists in a tac squad as it allows the unit to do some damage if it ever has to assault (or defend itself) against a vehicle or MC.
That said, the 25 points is quite a lot. Would you recommend an alternative such as a power sword + melta bomb?

@libby, would you suggest moving him up to support Belial? (obviously not in the same squad) I'm not exactly sure how to use him so forward. He will be very useful staying at the back providing support to my Devastators.
And noted on the dev positioning. I still think I may as well give the Rhino a shot. Of course it will be destroyed by turn 2 most likely but if it can move up one fully geared tac squad and provide cover (while receiving long range support from Scouts and WW..) It might work.
I'll also scrap the 10 points for the HKM as it's probably useless.

And any comments on the Mastery Lvl 2 for the libby?

Thanks again and cheers!

I recommend keeping your tac squads cheap and not wasting points on vet upgrades or wargear. They should be shooting. if you play an army that is looking to close with you like Nids or Daemons, you want your marines shooting as much as possible. Let your terminators become counter-charge units. In the fluff, I'm sure the sergeant would have a fist but in reality, with 2 attacks when receiving a charge, it's not that great.

Mastery Lvl 2 is fine if you have points. Keep in mind, that's another rhino if you wanted to mount up the tacs completely.

I'm giving tactical advice, but never forget that rule #1 is look cool and rule #2 is do cool s*&t even if it's tactically inadvisable. Winning is like rule #17.

Have fun man. It doesn't sound like you want to min-mix the feth out of your list. So take my tweaks if you want but don't forget rule #1.

The Shrike wrote:
I recommend keeping your tac squads cheap and not wasting points on vet upgrades or wargear. They should be shooting. if you play an army that is looking to close with you like Nids or Daemons, you want your marines shooting as much as possible. Let your terminators become counter-charge units. In the fluff, I'm sure the sergeant would have a fist but in reality, with 2 attacks when receiving a charge, it's not that great.

Mastery Lvl 2 is fine if you have points. Keep in mind, that's another rhino if you wanted to mount up the tacs completely.

I'm giving tactical advice, but never forget that rule #1 is look cool and rule #2 is do cool s*&t even if it's tactically inadvisable. Winning is like rule #17.

Have fun man. It doesn't sound like you want to min-mix the feth out of your list. So take my tweaks if you want but don't forget rule #1.

I like the idea of the Mastery lvl 2...Prescience is an obvious one but if I was to get something like misfortune as well - that would work nice. Especially if I did decide to move up my Libby forward.But for now I'll keep him on the defense.
Still I can't get an answer for the prescience rule. I FINALLY bought the rule book and still it says...casting prescience on a single friendly UNIT within 12 inches of the Librarian can re-roll failed hits. That means the entire unit? I know on this forum I was corrected and it said it only works on a single model. I notice when the rulebook states a single model, it will say model and not unit as unit implies an entire squad?
thanks!

Also...Fantastic post
It will take some time before I start battling but...I want to be ready when it happens.