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So I havent thought of a name yet but i have decided he will be an HQ. I've always thought the lack of tau snipers was a little silly, I'm not a fan of the sniper drones because i feel the rifle should be in the hands of troops. Let me know what y'all think

WS BS S T W A I Ld Sv Unit Type
2 5 3 3 3 2 3 10 4+ Infantry(character) 1(unique) 180pts


Wargear:
Modified Rail Rifle
Combat Armor
Photon grenades
Advanced Targeting System
Drone Controller
2 Spy Drones


Special rules:
Independent Character
Supporting fire
Infiltrate
Stealth
Shrouded
Leader of the Pathfinders

Rifles- Modified Rail- 48" S6 Ap1 Rapidfire
Plasma Submunition S4 Ap2 Heavy 1, Blast

Spy Drones- Markerlight Drone with Networked ML 36" S- AP- Heavy 1. Shield generator

Leader of the Pathfinders - An army with this mode may take pathfinders as troops,

I had a lot of fun making this little guy so far. Tell what you guys think and if its worth it I may come up with some fluff and a name but right now its too late for that and i just wanted to get this down while i was thinking of it!! Dont be shy!

BoUS is out of place entirely, and will get you smacked down in using this character IRL. Drones might be better if they're 'counts as' fliers that can't move (i.e. AV10 and snapshots can be taken).

Doubletap's a bit ridiculous, and the wording on it is 'meaningless' in 40k terms.

Incredibly overpowered.

 shamikebab wrote:
Incredibly overpowered.

Incredibly vague? It's fine once you take out the things that are out of place; you get a Character Pathfinder with some special armour and his choice of minorly-upped Ion or Rail rifles - and a couple markerlights. For 125 points, that's fine.

If we take the Pathfinder base - 11 points
Take away guns - 4 points
Give it 2 Wounds and stealth armour - 40 points
Give it a Rail Rifle and Ion Rifle - 65 Points
Upgrade those weapons, adjust for their firing base (2++ cover) - 85 points
Give it 2 Marker Drones - 113 Points
Make them special - 125 points (Similar to Space Wolves' servoskulls, but with Markerlights)

Well let's compare it to the most recent sniper character, Illic in the Eldar codex.

Stats wise:

Illic

6-9-3-3-3-6-3-10-5+

Tau

3-5-3-3-3-2-3-9-4+

Ok Illic clearly wins here, although Tau has a better save which is handy.

Wargear:

Illic - Shuriken pistol, Power Sword

Tau - Photon grenades, EMP grenades, Blade of ultimate sacrifice (AP2 weapon or S8AP2 large blast), XV12 armour (Stealth, shrouded), Drone controller, 2 x spy drones (networked markerlights that can be placed ANYWHERE and can't be targetted)

Tau obviously wins here, can take on nearly anything.

Main gun

Voidbringer (48" AP2 Heavy 1 Distort Sniper)

Custom rail rifle (48", S6 AP1 rapid fire or 48" S6 AP3 rapid fire (I assume this is a mistake) or S7 AP3 Blast gets hot.

Tau wins here probably, a lot of options for different targets.

Special rules:

Illic - Always precision shots (can be useful but LOS makes it less useful), Shrouded, Preferred enemy and Hatred Necrons. Can infiltrate anywhere (cannot see any use of this). Can upgrade Rangers to pathfinders (good but expensive)

Tau - Supporting Fire, Infiltrate, Stealth, Shrouded, Double Tap.

Tau wins again, Double Tap lets you put out 4 S6 AP1 shots at 24"! and these have split fire (without the Leadership test as well) and both his cover save and regular save will be 1 pt better than Illic.

All this for 125pts, cheaper than Illic at 140.

So that's why I think he's overpowered. Tone down his abilities and equipment and of course he'd be fine (why on earth should a sniper have an AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative?? The drones give you markerlight support that the enemy can't stop unless they get the sniper (obviously stupid)

So i changed a few things and upped his price, the blade was waaaay out of place i agree, i just didnt want him to be completely helpless in melee, lol he's tau, so thats gone. Also the explosion from the blade was never meant to be used as his attacks but would end up killing the Character(ultimate sacrifce)

I changed the ruling on double tap because i thought the timing for an ability like that is a little too unrealistic but i still want it to be very unique ability. I basically want whatever im shooting at to die, or at very least take a wound.

The rifles stats arent a typo, they were purposely lowered to compensate for higher ap. Denser ion charge maybe? Plus he's meant to hunt marines and wraiths.

The drones are now killable but dont disappear when he does.

I also gave him a rule that i feel dark strider should have had.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i also only upped his Ld as it was the only way to make him warlord(must be highest Ld in army).

Also increased his points a considerable amount

Why would you ever choose a S6 AP3 shot rapid fire over a S6 AP1 shot rapid fire?

Ah you've changed it to Assault 2 now, that makes more sense.

I'm still not sure about the drones though. Flyer rules for something that's stationary doesn't really make sense. COuld give them Stealth and Shrouded as well as a 4+ invulnerable save from the shielding? That still lets them take some punishment but keeps them from being overpowered. (in their current state it would be quite easy to target enemies out of LOS from your units then use you weapons that don't require LOS plus marker tokens to really destroy them)

Getting better though (although now I think he's too expensive )

The drones are mostly for him to ignore cover though, thats why there's two,they're networked and why i like them being up in the air to see EVERYTHING lol they are spy drones,

What i envision the drones being are invisible(due to a stealth field) drones that hover high above where they incredibly unlikely to be seen, let alone be shot at and have incredible LoS to everything. Im trying to figure out how to represent what i envision in game without being too ridiculous! I was originally thinking chhoser of the slain when i was thinking about placement, but with a few less restrictions.

At first i was only going to up the pts to 150, but then i added precision marksman and the ability to take PF as troops n figured that was probably worth 25 pts or so.

I just feel he needs to lose something. At the moment the drones let him ignore cover on a target pretty much anywhere on the map and then fire an AP1 shot at BS5 with precise shooting on every shot. That lets you take out special weapons in squads, far, far too easily regardless of cover.

No eye searingly bad fluff? No half breeds?

Praise the hive mind!

Thats the point in a super sniper isnt it!? lol He's like a vindicare that wont really kill tanks and costs more! I feel like a sniper could shoot in between some trees at a person he can clearly see. Plus! theres a chance he could miss! i roll LOTS of ones lol He's also only going to kill 1, maybe 2 models a turn. That means he's looking at surviving every turn to even come close to making his points back.

Until you one-shot that Lord Commissar out of that guad blob off of his Quad-gun...

I find it funny that a no-name Vindicaire is usually leagues better than all these fancy big name snipers like Tellion, this guy, or Illic.

It has a gun that's comparable to the Hammerhead's cannon and two networked markerlights on top of a bunch of other buffs. This is a no for me.

 Kain wrote:
I find it funny that a no-name Vindicaire is usually leagues better than all these fancy big name snipers like Tellion, this guy, or Illic.

And that right there is why i dont see this guy as OP really.

regular pathfinders have a gun thats comparable to the ion cannon, so whats you're point there savage?

As far as the lord commisar comment, Good maybe only to hit rolls of 5 or 6 should be precision that ignore LOS!?

I'd say all shots are precision, 5s/6s to hit ignore LOS

Deal lol

Glad I could help

Oo, I like the idea of a proper sniper character for Tau, but right now the execution seems to be all over the place. A few gripes of mine:

Tau characters are supposed to be cheap. We are not Eldar, we do not get powerful special rules and awesome psychic shenanigans. But thus our special characters are fairly cheap. And this brings us to...

Unique gear and rules everywhere! Don't get me wrong, flexing your creative muscles is refreshing and really fun, but it's easy to go overboard. Like this one has. Even our existing SC have just one unique system and others just use or slightly modify existing units/gear.

I have a few suggestions, just for inspiration:

1) Lose some of the special rules and replace them with things we have in the codex. Like shrouded and just make it stealth instead. No special gear, just sneaking skills. Also the Precise Marksman... Illic is possibly a thousand years old. A Tau will never be as good as that guy, not with their lifespan. The gun seems out of place as well, mostly because of fluff reasons. How can a linear accelerator also fire ion particles, which is basically plasma? Just give him both Rail and Ion rifles he can choose from.

2) I mentioned that PF troops is a nice and fluffy idea, did I? Now let's take that a step further:

Leader of the Pathfinders: - An army with [insert name] may take pathfinders as troops. Additionally, every Pathfinder may new replace their Pulse Carbine and Markerlight with a Rail Rifle and Ion Rifle for the normal price. Now the Pathfinders can fill two completely different roles by just allowing them to take a full squad of specialized weaponry.

3) Replace Spy Drones with this:

Signature System: Seeker Drone - A this drone is equipped with an advanced targeting system and a data relay, using information from markerlights and existing threat recognition parameters to highlight priority targets and count firing solutions in matters of seconds. The unit may use a single Markerlight counter to give Precision Shots with to hit-rolls of 5 and 6.

... Or something like that.

What I'm desperately trying to get to here is that Tau characters aren't all that amazing on their own, but give sweet bonuses to those around them. And personally, this is the way to go when designing a proper Tau character.

I see what you're saying with cheap Tau HQ thing, and as far as the precision shot thing, i didnt even know illic had that until after i made this character.

I like what you did with LoP though, and as far as the gun i guess think of it as a combi weapon? But that i may change, as 2 separate modified guns makes more sense than 1 unique gun. However the armour stays, as its just modifed tau combat armor(), because otherwise he's getting stealth armor straight up which means he becomes a sniper shadowsun which isnt what im looking for. I might consider modified recon armour though, i just dont want it to die to a stiff breeze.

I figure rather than all precision shots, he should just have our wargear that gives it on 5's and 6's(dont have my codex on me right now). Im not super happy with the drones as they are so they need some re working but idk how just yet.

Always appreciate the input though

He shouldn't be able to stop LOS, even Illic can't do that.

Wolfnid420 wrote:

regular pathfinders have a gun thats comparable to the ion cannon, so whats you're point there savage?

The Pathfinders don't get an AP3 large blast and Hammerheads don't come with their own markerlights. Adding in that it also gets to allocate wounds as the player chooses and to re-roll the scatter dice on base BS5 with stealth and shrouding, which also goes on to it's flying tank markerlights.

Basically you should start with a character like Darkstrider and add on from there in a limited fashion. Afterall Darkstrider is 100 points with fairly standard equipment except for the Structural Analyzer, and for only 75 points more your character is leagues ahead. It's a pathfinder that's able to swap between a rail rifle and the Tau's main battle tank cannon.

 shamikebab wrote:
I just feel he needs to lose something. At the moment the drones let him ignore cover on a target pretty much anywhere on the map and then fire an AP1 shot at BS5 with precise shooting on every shot. That lets you take out special weapons in squads, far, far too easily regardless of cover.

Almost like a Vindicare Assassin? Similar in cost, too, with far less CC capabilities.

I dont think it was similar enough in cost. Now it is though! Definitely changed a few things! And of course, still no melee capabilities! Just an assault deterent lol

@savage, lol its not a large blast, it doesnt have the range and its got lower strength, how is it like the ion cannon? its not like the ion cannon is the only ap3 weapon in the game.

Though i did figure he should go up to like 200 points Or lose a few special rules. I opted for the rules change, lumpion made a good point about cheap(arguably somewhat gakky) Tau HQs lol

The Spy Drone rules are overly complicated for no actual benefit. Why are they not just two separate single model units with basic Markerlights?

If it's for the Drone Controller benefit, just make them basic BS5 and be done with it. As it is you haven't covered any of the problems that would occur with a unit being deployed out of coherency, specifically that they'd have to move together to make coherency as fast as possible.

Wolfnid420 wrote:
I dont think it was similar enough in cost. Now it is though! Definitely changed a few things! And of course, still no melee capabilities! Just an assault deterent lol

@savage, lol its not a large blast, it doesnt have the range and its got lower strength, how is it like the ion cannon? its not like the ion cannon is the only ap3 weapon in the game.

Though i did figure he should go up to like 200 points Or lose a few special rules. I opted for the rules change, lumpion made a good point about cheap(arguably somewhat gakky) Tau HQs lol

I think it's fine. The Vindicare has a huge chance to hit - this guy has slightly less. The Vindicare can Precision, with that much higher hit percentage, and no one can look out, sir! those shots. They can for this Tau dude. This Tau dude is 5 points more expensive, with a different weapon that isn't the best anti-tank weapon in the game, with an ability that makes Pathfinders troops. Seems fine to me. maybe add 10 points because he can make PFs troops.

He was originally 125pts with most of the upgrades i cut. then up to 175 because i added a bunch of gak. Now trimmed back down to a (IMO) very reasonable character. I really dont want it to be OP but i definiitely want it to kill things lol

Comments will be in Bold.

Wolfnid420 wrote:
So I havent thought of a name yet but i have decided he will be an HQ. I've always thought the lack of tau snipers was a little silly, I'm not a fan of the sniper drones because i feel the rifle should be in the hands of troops. Let me know what y'all think

Drones hand's aren't as shakey, and they can be controlled. This is the power of the Drone sniper. I disagree entirely.

WS BS S T W A I Ld Sv Unit Type
2 5 3 3 3 2 3 10 4+ Infantry(character) 1(unique) 150pts

Meh. We'll get to price later


Wargear:
Modified Rail Rifle
Rifles- Modified Rail- 48" S6 Ap1 Rapidfire,Sniper
Sniper always has a Strength of X. Make up your mind. If you go S6AP1, 20 points I don’t see why you want sniper anyway. Its biggest boons are precision shots and rending. You already have AP1 and precision shots.
Modified Ion Rifle
Modified Ion - 48" S6 Ap3 Assault 2,Sniper Overcharged S7 Ap3 Heavy1 Blast gets hot
This is not characteristic of Ion weaponry. They are always S7 and S8 for the blast. Keep them there. Again, Sniper always has a Strength of X. It wounds on 4+ and has rending. If you change this to make it reasonable, 30 points.
xv12 experimental armour
xv12 experimental armor - has stealth technology similar to the xv25 but the size and mobility of combat armour, confers stealth and shrouded
meh. 15 points
photon grenades
emp grenades
3 points
Ion Detonator
Ion detonator - When this characters wounds are reduced to zero, place a large blast over the Character and resolve the blast at S7 ap3.
why?
Advanced targeting system
3 points
Drone Controller
8 points
2 Spy Drones
Spy Drones- Markerlight Drone with Networked ML 36" S- AP- Heavy 1. Shield generator, stealth, Shrouded, Spy infiltration - drones may infiltrate, and through all aspects of the game act, as if they were each separate 1 model units and do not have to maintain any kind of coherency. Networked bonuses go to the Character. +1 extra wound
remove the silly independent rule. It’s stupid and we both know it. It’s cool that they’re Stealth shrouded, and have infiltrate. Remove the extra wound. 35 points a pop.
164 points for all the Wargear
2 guns, 2 signature systems and 2 support systems. IS this guy a commander or a path finder? Drop a support system and a weapon, and remove that ion detonator weapon. It’s unnecessary.
Special rules:
Supporting fire
Infiltrate
Leader of the Pathfinders
Leader of the Pathfinders - An army with this mode may take pathfinders as troops, Also, all pathfinders in an army with the Character may replace their ML and Carbine for a rail rifle or ion rifle at normal cost(i really like that option)
150 points I’ll explain why down below
Stealth
Shrouded
it doesn’t need these. The armour gives it to them.

I had a lot of fun making this little guy so far. Tell what you guys think and if its worth it I may come up with some fluff and a name but right now its too late for that and i just wanted to get this down while i was thinking of it!! Dont be shy!

I love OP proposed rules. I did some points tinkering for you and worked this guy out at 345 points. Sound too high? Well let me explain.
35 points for the character: why? He’s a decent statline, almost as good as a cadre Fireblade.
164 points for Wargear:
He’s carrying a lot of it. He’ll probably look like a Medal of Honour Allied Assault character, carrying 6 rifles ant two bazookas. Drop a support system, a Rifle and that silly detonator thing. He’ll drop by about a quarter.
His two drones are really quite awesome, aren’t they? BS5, networked Markerlight, 4++ and 2 wounds, as well as infiltrate AND stealth and shrouded? (not that they need stealth and shrouded with a 4++.) a Recon drone isn’t even nearly close to being that useful and it’s 28 points. What were you expecting?. A flat 70 points here.
Special Rules:
15 for infiltrate, since he gives it to a squad
Pathfinders troops? That’s awesome! Oh, and they can ALL take rail rifles? You know who else can do that? Yeah, that’s right. No one. No one can take 20 BS3 S6AP1 shots in one unit. No one else is allowed to do 10 S8AP4 blasts, so why are you. Remove that silly rule.

Pathfinders as troops are still huge, as pathfinders can do everything Fire warriors can, and then have Markerlight too. The only downside is a weaker killing range. This is mitigated by outflank.

If you made all the changes I suggested (remove a support system, the ion rifle, the ion thingamabob and remove the rail rifles and ion rifles on the entire squad thing) I’d price him around 185. Pathfinders as troops is still huge.

Wow! It stings a little, but ill be damned if you dont make A LOT of sense. So i changed some stuff

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Wow! It stings a little, but ill be damned if you dont make A LOT of sense. So i changed some stuff

That looks much better.