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I posted this list about a week ago but nobody commented. If they had they might have said "hey jamin, you've got no anti air mate, you'll be toast if someone brings a decent flyer." I played an elder army with the crimson hunter and a wrath knight. close game but the crimson hunter killed 5 tanks and I had nothing that could deal with it. The infantry all died and then came back which was fun and effective (they kept assaulting and shooting the wraithknight, eventually killing it, radge wee gadgies as we say in Scotland!) The whole army does not take morale checks for shooting casualties and gets an extra objective which is worth 2 if DKoK claim it and worth one to the enemy if they do not and has some other minor differences but otherwise its basically a guard list. This is my most recent list which was beaten

Company command squad, Artillerist (D3 Griffon blasts, one shot only)

Griffon with caracass shells (can choose to use ignores cover S5 shred gets hot)

Griffon with caracass shells (can choose to use ignores cover S5 shred gets hot)

Leman Russ Forward Command Tank, Vanquisher, Lascannon, Multi Melta sponsons (Artillery can draw LOS from tank and BS4)

Infantry Platoon Command Squad, 2 Plasma guns, melta bombs

3 x Infantry squads, melta guns (all come back on death)

Grenadier squad, heavy flamer

2 basilisks

Medusa

Medusa

1500

I have now changed it to

Company command squad, 1 Plasma gun, 1 melta

Griffon with caracass shells

Leman Russ Forward Command Tank, Vanquisher, Lascannon, Multi Melta sponsons

Hydra

Infantry Platoon Command Squad, Melta Gun,

3 x Infantry squads, melta guns

Grenadier squad

2 basilisks

Medusa

6 Lascannon HWT

1500

Lost some big blasts to try and make the list more capable against flyers and MC's. Those lascannons would have come in handy for the wraithknight and given my command squad something to give orders to, also if they are deployed in area terrain and go to ground they will have a decent cover save so may last more than 1 turn? Or am I just being hopelessly optimistic as usual? I need help anyways its been like 12 or 13 games and I have not won yet with these hugely expensive models

I can't really help with your DKOK list specifically, as I don't have access to it as I'm not familiar with it.

Do you have folks you play with on a regular basis, or are you playing anyone and everyone who comes to your local shop? In other words, what are you going up against? Take All Comers lists are difficult and, arguably, impossible. A lot depends on who you'll be playing.

If ur having trouble against the super size me models use the one LRBT variant that has/can take beast hunter shells, iirc they are s8 ap2 ID heavy 1

The strength of the any DKoK list really is in its artillery units. Rapiers, Heavy Mortars, Thudd Guns, etc. They are resilient and powerful, though largely immobile.

On top of that, the infantry platoons are rather meh, especially in the Assault Brigade with access to decent stormtroopers as troops. I'd say rely more on the Grenadiers.

When it comes to AA, I'd say don't bother with hydras in the Assault Brigade list, take Rapiers and rely on their Twin Linked and Bring it Down orders to lascannon HWT's, they'll do for most things.

I'd drop the Leman Russ tank, if you were running an armored battlegroup it'd be a good buy, but as the only heavy tank in a list like this, it's just a target.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The strength of the any DKoK list really is in its artillery units. Rapiers, Heavy Mortars, Thudd Guns, etc. They are resilient and powerful, though largely immobile.

On top of that, the infantry platoons are rather meh, especially in the Assault Brigade with access to decent stormtroopers as troops. I'd say rely more on the Grenadiers.

When it comes to AA, I'd say don't bother with hydras in the Assault Brigade list, take Rapiers and rely on their Twin Linked and Bring it Down orders to lascannon HWT's, they'll do for most things.

I'd drop the Leman Russ tank, if you were running an armored battlegroup it'd be a good buy, but as the only heavy tank in a list like this, it's just a target.

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

I'm trying to build a fluffy assault brigade list, so don't really want to use more than one unit of artillery. I'd consider a squad of heavy mortars though...

I think that DKoK infantry platoons with the assault brigade are badass, if the enemy kills them, great they come back, if they don't then they can cause problems with krak grenades and melta guns. They took 4 wounds off a wraithknight and claimed all of my objectives in the last game, so I'd be reluctant to take them out. They are also fun to use because you end up actually wanting them to die (I was hoping my blasts would scatter on my own troops at one point because I only had one damaged squad left and seriously considered using a griffon reroll to try and ensure that they did!)

I'm torn between the hydra and the 2nd griffon. I've got two hydras which makes me biased towards them but they are the same price so I'll experiment over the next few games.

I don't like the rapier models and only have one squad of grenadiers. Do you think a thunderbolt is worth a shot instead of the russ?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
I can't really help with your DKOK list specifically, as I don't have access to it as I'm not familiar with it.

Do you have folks you play with on a regular basis, or are you playing anyone and everyone who comes to your local shop? In other words, what are you going up against? Take All Comers lists are difficult and, arguably, impossible. A lot depends on who you'll be playing.

I play with the same folks all the time. Pretty much every army apart from SOB. I always try and write TAC lists which is perhaps why I get beat so often, although I don't think my opponents are tailoring...

The ability to recycle the platoons is nice, but they lack armament options and cost nearly 50% more than basic IG squads, they're not cheap. Not totally worthless obviously, but are expensive for what they do. Additionally, the platoon has to be completely destroyed by your opponent to come back on, you can't just choose to remove it the way Chenkov can with conscripts, meaning your opponent can leave 1 dude alive sitting on a hill and you can't recycle the platoon.

If you actually own two hydras, you might as well use them then I'd take the heavy mortars instead of another griffon honestly.

the thunderbolt is "ok", its pricey for what it offers but not totally unuseable.

Can the DKoK get Manticores? Seriously man, I know I harp on about those fething things alot, but they are insanely powerful.

DKoK lists do not actually have access to Manticores.

too "high tech"

Wow, an IG list that has trouble winning and lacks the most OP artillery in the game? I think I might actually like the Death Korps.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Wow, an IG list that has trouble winning and lacks the most OP artillery in the game? I think I might actually like the Death Korps.

They do still have access to spammable hades breacher drills though so I wouldn't let them get on tour good side too soon

It's funny you say that man, when your losing constantly with Orks yet somehow the rest of us manage fine. I think your clearly just using the wrong army ~ sell your boys to someone who will treat them better and go buy some more IG 'allies'

As for the Hades Drill, can someone tell me where to find it? I assume its one of the IA books?

IA 2nd ed imperial guard IIRC

Jamin, hello fellow krieg player.

I have been running Dkok seige list for a while now. We have just finished a campaign at our local club and my win/loss record was 13/0.

I have always found the master of ordnance is a bit of a dud for me, too great a scatter and the artillerist shot is less strength and AP, one use only. you can put those 30 points to better use somewhere else.

Try running your 1 infantry platoon as 2. its only an extra platoon squad and infantry squad (130 points if melta gun included) as your running 3 now. Its good your not shy with them, its the krieg way to throw men at something till its ground to paste. with less models to go through the platoon will come back sooner. Assault and pistol weapons are good in there as you can ensure the enemy has to deal with those last remaining models as you charge the unit you shot, instead of letting the enemy bypass them.

Also have a go at taking the sponsons off the russ. (30 points to put into more men). They never did it for me. either one didn't have line of sight or they were out of range for the melta to be effective. a no-sponson vanquisher with lascannon and camo netting behind an aegis wall is gold, co axial the vanquisher cannon if you can. backed with CCS and heavy weapons teams it can protect your artillery units while hitting most of the field.

try autocannons in the heavy weapon squads as well. BID works a charm with 6 shots. no flyer has over 12 armour so they are pretty effective at getting a penetrating hit on most them.

If your after the no-cover part of the griffon the eradicator nova cannon on a russ works just as well, or a hellhound.


hope this helps you a bit.

Thanks for the advice, it's given me a lot of food for thought. I'd like two infantry platoons but would maybe struggle with the model count, perhaps if I took out the grenadiers.....

Dakkamite wrote:Wow, an IG list that has trouble winning and lacks the most OP artillery in the game? I think I might actually like the Death Korps.

Well, they can't use *that* artillery unit, but if you really want to be ridiculous with artillery, it is possible to spit out a potential 27 S6 AP4 Ordnance/Large Blast shots in one round with the list, though that's sinking 1600pts and 8 FoC slots into S6 blast weapons (several of those shots being inaccurate and one round only) But yeah, no Manticores, no Valkyries, no Vendettas, no quad special weapon command squads, no veterans (grenadiers are kinda like vets but only get 2 special weaopns and cost more), etc.

A GumyBear wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Wow, an IG list that has trouble winning and lacks the most OP artillery in the game? I think I might actually like the Death Korps.

They do still have access to spammable hades breacher drills though so I wouldn't let them get on tour good side too soon

The Hadres Drill has been nerfed into nigh uselessness, it's much weaker (-2S) with a smaller blast, doesn't move units (so it mishaps if it fails to clear its landing area), and if it mishaps it does so with a -2 modifier (so dies 50% of the time) and whatever happens to it now happens to the follow up squads as well, and no longer automatically comes in turn 2 with the follow up automatically on turn 3.

Dakkamite wrote:
As for the Hades Drill, can someone tell me where to find it? I assume its one of the IA books?

IA 1 2nd edition, IA12

jamin484 wrote:Thanks for the advice, it's given me a lot of food for thought. I'd like two infantry platoons but would maybe struggle with the model count, perhaps if I took out the grenadiers.....

Just keep in mind the Grenadiers are supremely useful

I'm curious where you're finding the nerf to the Hades drill. All lists and FAQs I can find are still the "melta" blast.

 Laboeuf wrote:
I'm curious where you're finding the nerf to the Hades drill. All lists and FAQs I can find are still the "melta" blast.

the gun is the same, its entrance attack is weaker.

I'm not sold on grenadiers. They seem very expensive for what they are. Plus I've only bought one squad of them....
Why do you think they are so good, BS4, AP3 or carapace armour? Other than that I fail to see the appeal at nearly double the cost of their platoon counterparts..

Ap3 kills my csm

Honestly, i can't think of a competitve IG list without 3 Vendettas. They are EXTREMELY underpriced for what they do. They should cost 200 points each, instead they cost 130... in my opinion, absolutely mandatory. Not many armies can deal with 3 AV12 flyers, that destroy tanks and other flyers with ease.

Teschio wrote:
Honestly, i can't think of a competitve IG list without 3 Vendettas. They are EXTREMELY underpriced for what they do. They should cost 200 points each, instead they cost 130... in my opinion, absolutely mandatory. Not many armies can deal with 3 AV12 flyers, that destroy tanks and other flyers with ease.

Vendettas aren't available for DKoK. Unless that is you take an allied detachment of regular IG I won't argue the Vendetta case because it isn't relevant here.


For me, Death Korps is about pounding the enemy for a few turns then putting them out of their misery with massed infantry. Never underestimate the Chimera (Storm version available to Grenadiers is cool).

Thudd Guns, Heavy Mortars are gold. Medusa is lovely too with her extra range

 Elysium Wargames Society wrote:
Vendettas aren't available for DKoK. Unless that is you take an allied detachment of regular IG I won't argue the Vendetta case because it isn't relevant here.

No idea what DKoK is. Here Forgeworld is not allowed in tournaments and i am mainly a tournament player, so i never bothered with it. I assumed he was talking about regular IG.

Btw, one week old is kinda necroposting

you had success against the wraith knight, any pointers on a successful tactic with the assault brigade to take them out?

I'm working away from home without my codex :(

Are you just tar pitting them with the infantry, does the addition of a commisaar seem a worthy point sink or just add more troops?

With the addition of the riptide and wraith knight i'm guessing this may be an emerging trend to counter on the board and wondered how folks deal with these. I have plans to ally my static medusa seige guns on the pdf update for the siege regiment list so far.

With the addition of the riptide and wraith knight i'm guessing this may be an emerging trend to counter on the board and wondered how folks deal with these. I have plans to ally my static medusa seige guns on the pdf update for the siege regiment list so far.

I've found a couple of lascannon HWT and BID works. Venner proves his worth with his Ld 10 bubble. no vox on the HWT but Ld 10 means you pass the order alot of the time. Put them behind a wall for 4+ cover.
48" range means you hit most of the board and hit other units before they get in range.

They nerfed the hades breaching drill however they made the infantry and list way cooler. Conscript DDoK's ?

Might want to get rid of the multi-melta sponsons. Even though the vanquisher cannon has an incredible long range,
I don't think the multi-melta's will see much action.

i like the idea of Lascannons on a skyshield landing pad for the inv save. Pesky Tau seem to be able to negate cover saves a little easier :(

not sure if it fits with the fluff of an assault brigade though?

I noticed 6 thudd guns on a skyshield did pretty well at a recent tournament. Perhaps this is a good move or am i thinking this is all about winning and not about getting as many DKOK killed as possible?

i've invested in some salamanders to support my infantry and a thunderer. Any thoughts on this as i wanted something to harass and prioritise away from my infantry advance and seemed a pretty cheap way to do it.

i've invested in some salamanders to support my infantry

My friend who has IG outflanks with sentinels all the time. That might be a valid tactic for salamanders now that a krieg list has something with the scout rule. I liked it when nothing had it though, it fits the fluff of the infantry advance, but i wouldn't have minded it on death riders.

Pesky Tau seem to be able to negate cover saves a little easier :(

prioritize their markerlights if you can. heavy mortars/thudds eat pathfinders now. if you run both use thudds on pathfinders and mortars on fire warriors. I am annoyed that the company commanders lost fire on my target. that was useful for units behind opposing walls or in cover, I haven't tried carcass mortar shells yet though.

They nerfed the hades breaching drill

It depends how you use it. If you use it for the deepstrike attack just put 5 engineers on it so if you do lose them its not too bad, I use this for anti-vehicle. The ram attack is str 8 melta, AP 1 you blow up what you hit 1/2 the time. Otherwise you don't have to place the 3" template over an enemy unit, you can put it in the open and then shoot the drill when it comes up (providing your scatter was good), I recently slagged a doomsday ark with the melta cutter doing this. Next turn your engineers are out the hole with a demo charge or melta gun for anti tank or flamers and carcass rounds for anti-infantry.