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So I was wondering what people have been doing with their BA and BT lately? Shelving them? or are they coming up with tricks or certain ally combinations to keep them relevent in their local meta? I have been wanting to pair them with either my IG or DA lately but wow, they have become ghosts, i cant find recent battle reports with them, forums just say negative things. I am one of those people that understands if they dont competitively compete very well due to age but there are still ways to use these iconic armies. They had a glorious past in days of old when they ran the show.

Side note is i hope when they release 6th ed blood angels they give them some special rule where they can assault 1st turn or out of vehicles and out of deepstrike, that would be cool and not broken to much.
6th ed black templars should get like..id a 6++ invuln all the time, and still get cover if need. idk just thoughts. Then you have BA as a fast cqc army and a slow but defensive cqc army. BT should also be rolled into the C:SM codex cause they dont have enough unique units to have their own as horrible as that is to say, id love it if they had their own but i just dont see it happening again.

One last thing, please dont whine about 6th editions assault range as a nerf, we all get it and some of us dont care cause thats not an excuse for why you lose. They didnt add that rule just to nerf your armies, all armies play that same rule.

BA are still fun to play in my opinion, but they're not a competitive force and we it seems to become more of an uphill struggle with each new codex that comes out.

My biggest problem currently is that all our fluffy units are virtually unuseable and our optimised lists just seem like a subpar C:SM list.

I have considered allies but haven't looked too deeply - I picked up the DA codex and will probably run a duel angels force at some point, not sure how well it'll work. I really want IG allies but at the rate they're churning out codexs I might wait and see if appears in the near future. IG would be best for me as my other army is SoB (I know how to pick 'em, right?) and IG are Battle Brothers with both BA & SoB.

D

Black Templars are hard to fit in nowadays, specially since you can't ally them with any psykers.
They stil got units that pack a punch, dual heavy weapons termies (5-man) and some decent assault units and HQs.
But as a whole I've been mainly playing DAs and SMs.

I've shelved my BA for competitive play. As evildrcheese says, they're still fun though. For tournaments though, they're a bottom 3 codex.

It may be my meta but I can punch well above my weight with my BT. They're an old book (also why they dont seem unique) but any experienced commander can win when presented with a sensible BT list

The BT Blob is a godsend for 6th edition IMO. In an environment where durable troops are great, having such a resilient Troops choice is great. Unfortunately, with the loss of Preferred Enemy rerolls Templar CC units really need the charge.
Techmarines are great for adding some oomph to our otherwise mediocre troops. Between getting 8 S8 AP2 attacks on the charge if you've got a Power Fist, being able to buy a 3++ and having 2 Wounds, our Techmarines more or less forc the enemy to bring a Character of their own to kill the Techmarine.

I've been allying my BA to my DA. My DA are a mix wing force with a three "wings" being represented. Then I use the BA to fill in the gaps. So Storm Raven out of the heavy slot instead of either of the DA flyers, and then something like Death Company Tycho leading a huge blob of Death Company troops, etc. That's just one example and I have a few variations but you get the idea. So far it's worked out quite well for me and it's surprisingly fun to play.

6th edition assault range is pretty trivial compared to the BA other issues. Loss of init 5 makes the BA ASM not even good against other meqs.


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That being said, I have found that 5 man ASM with flamer/handflamer in Razors with TLHF are cheap effective BA troops that at least keep people paying attention. TLHF are very dangerous weapons in 6th and BA have the speed to use them effectively at least once.


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The best part is that if they frag the razorback, its all of 20 points.

So I just allied a 15 man BT unit with my IG and it worked great, probably not competitive but extremely nice to have a cc blob get into the line of the opponent and hold their ground.

I want to try the combination some more to really grasp them. Also going to try a BA ASM contingency to see if their speed might work better then the BT meat shield.


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Also What do you think BT and BA need to help get them back on top?

The main need for BT is to adjust all the stats and point values to current standards i.e captains WS6, grenades free for everybody, vehicles to costs of other codices, and a slight redo of the BT rules to fit them with current ones anything beyond that is just gravy

The one guy I know who uses BA does a BA army with Grey knights. He brings in Cotiez in a Razorback, and some kind of GK tank, and a dreadnought. He also has an assassin (the one with a skull on his head that's the close combat crazy one).

The actual BA part is sternguard, death company, and a regular tac squad all in drop pods as well as a jump pack descent of angels squad.

I personally think they're pretty nasty but we play in a meta where fliers pretty much don't exist. I can't see any older codex doing well against fliers since fliers didn't exist then the codex was made.

Yeah, my meta is void of fliers to, which is nice cause I feel they off balance the game. BA and GK would be a cool combo to fight against.


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Oh and @dementedwombat those adjustments would work great, they could also get the bolt pistol and ccw naturally in their wargear with a Bolter aswell. It would just be nice, or at least the option to buy they ccw without sacrificing the bolter

I'm trying to imagine going more than three games without having my BA hoovered up by helldrakes or my Stormraven raped by Vendettas. Maybe this is why some people still put BA at mid tier.

I feel flyers are misplaced in games under 2000 pts. They are just to hard to deal with and not everyone has a means to reliably counter them. I feel some of the bad rep BA and BT get is probably from not reliably being able to stop fliers, sure they can now bring their own but they were never written with fliers in mind and most of the units you want will fill your slots up before you even think about a flyer.

Until more codexes get released 6th edition will be horribly un balanced and us older armies will continue falling in the competitive world

The BT can hold their own. If your gaming group/area is cool with using FW units, contemptor mortis dreads give some serious fire power to the BT who lack it. The marshal on a bike with all the bells and whistles is still a supreme beat stick. Their typhoons are cheap. The additions of being able to take stormravens and storm talons helps. Lately, I've been thinking of infiltrating dual 10 man sword bretheren squads with 2 plasma guns and bolters. I think that with the increased range of rapid fire guns on the move, putting 16 bolters and 4 plasmaguns near your opponents door step...seems helpful to allow the rest of the units to do their thing. Additionally, since you can infiltrate them you can always set them up based on what how your opponent deployed.

Many tournaments do not allow FW. You can't rely on it to make your codex good.

 Solosam47 wrote:

Also What do you think BT and BA need to help get them back on top?

For Templars, some way to be able to get across the board and into CC quickly that isn't a Land Raider. I'm thinking something like some sort of mechanic to let you take multiple Righteous Zeal tests per turn and/or allowing charges from Consolidation moves once per turn. Possibly some sort of improved Drop Pod rules as well, tying in with the Orbital Assault preference of the Templars.

I always see cool FW stuff but my local area doesnt have enough support to really run them in our matches. I would really like to try out some of those other LR variants or make a black templar legion army even tho i know thats pre heresy.

But yeah i dont want to rely on FW to help make an army relevant in compatition. BT and BA need their new codexes sooner than later, like before nids which are rumored early next year.

If i got to choose the order of 6th ed codex release it would be:
Codex Marines
Imperial guard
Orks
BT or BA
nids
BA or BT
Dark Eldar
Space Wolves
Necrons or GK will fight for the last.

Sorry Sisters players but you guys have a white dwarf supplament......no codex, so i didnt add you. but if GW does want to give you a codex id say right after nids.

 Solosam47 wrote:
Side note is i hope when they release 6th ed blood angels they give them some special rule where they can assault 1st turn or out of vehicles and out of deepstrike, that would be cool and not broken to much.

NEVER.

Helpful post I know, but this is the sort of ability that GW has completely killed in 6th edition (and thank God for that).

For the BAs id say:
50 points cheaper on special characters.
25 points cheaper on all HQs.
5 point jump packs for Vet Vangaurd & Death Co.
10 point cheaper Rhinos, Baal Preds & Razorbacks.
10 points cheaper on twin linked las for Preds.
Make HK missles Skyfire, but not interceptor.
Make Furious Charge standard for BAs, not something you need to roll for because we don't get combat tactics.
Sang Priests should either have an extra wound or give hatred, maybe both.

Blood Angels still work well in a doubles tournament with right partner. I've played one with my Space Wolves and my partner's Angels. We each has 1000 points working on separate FOCs. He was the Sword, the forward force with two Baal Preadators and Three Vindicators along with some scouts and a Drop Pod full of nasties; I was the Shield with my Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, Rune Priests, and Aegis Defense Line providing the backup. Overall, we did pretty well. Lost against Nids and Crons, won against double Chaos, tied against Tau and Guard.