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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi

Im basically using what i have for now but how does this look

Farseer - burning blade

Illic NightSpear

7 Rangers

10 Direavengers - exarch with powersword

6 Jetbikes

11 Howling banshees - exarch mirror swords - farseer

5 Wraithguard -

Wave sepent - TWL starcannon (either going to take the banshees or wraithguard)

Wraithlord stargannon- brightlance- ghostglaive

Wraithknight (not sure what to give him either suncannon or standard with 2 scatter laser)

If i have points then I will add a 3 man seer council



   
Made in us
Deadly Dire Avenger



Florida

Beattie wrote:
Hi

Im basically using what i have for now but how does this look

Farseer - burning blade

Illic NightSpear

7 Rangers

10 Direavengers - exarch with powersword

6 Jetbikes

11 Howling banshees - exarch mirror swords - farseer

5 Wraithguard -

Wave sepent - TWL starcannon (either going to take the banshees or wraithguard)

Wraithlord stargannon- brightlance- ghostglaive

Wraithknight (not sure what to give him either suncannon or standard with 2 scatter laser)

If i have points then I will add a 3 man seer council





Banshees are capped at 10 per squad.

I would drop the star cannon on the WS and go with SLs or BLs.

The Firesabre just doesn't fit with the Farseer's 1 attack.

8100
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http://floridaminiaturepainting.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




owell that free's up more points

I use the wave serpant for cracking termi's or battle suits normally so the SL's and Bl's are just not as good as Star cannons

Sorry not got the codex handy it might have been the other option i think its the shard?
   
Made in us
Deadly Dire Avenger



Florida

You're lacking in AT. The BLs on the WS would help in that department. Unfortunately you have so many Banshees. They are just a bad unit.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Well, Banchees are fine - they just need to be supported, while Striking Scorpions are quite ok on their own.

Interesting list, I'd say you do need more Anti-Tank, and at the moment you've got very little heavy flier protection...
   
Made in fr
Swift Swooping Hawk






Beattie wrote:


Wraithknight (not sure what to give him either suncannon or standard with 2 scatter laser)




Well don't do that, he can only fire 2 weapons. he has three ways really:

Stock, just Wraithcannons

Suncannon, shield and one scatter laser for twin linking

Sword, shield and 2 weapons up top.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I was planning on the wraith's (guard,knight,lord) being my anti tank. Banshees were good but i see there weakness now just dont have the models to replace them yet :S

The knights load out 2 wraith cannons are for popping big thing and the scatter lasers are for shooting hordes works out to the same cost as the suncannon.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

a few pointers to get you going down the right path.

1)
the Burning Saber is totally not worth it on a Farseer. Remember you've still only got strength 3 (so 4 with the Saber), Wildfire is unreliable at best, and Soulblaze is nearly useless against most things. Also consider that the generic Witchblade is by no means a terrible weapon, fleshbane + armour bane can really come in handy. Furthemore consider that you can upgrade it for 5 points (and not lose an attack) to gain a throw attack at s9. I would stick with a Singing Spear for your Farseer and save those 25 points. Remember as well that your Farseer only has 1 base attack, and putting a 30 point special ccw on her seems like a poor idea. Save it for an Autarch!

Ultimately I suppose if you really felt like you needed a close combat oriented Farseer, you could set up on a Jetbike (for the t4 and 3+ armour save and solid movement), the Pheonix Gem, and MAYBE a special close combat weapon like the Shard or Fire Sabe. Then roll for Death Mission. That way once you hit cc you can death mission up, and when you die (either from Death Mission running out or just straight up getting killed, the Pheonix Gem explodes and hopefully pulls you out of it. You could also just grab the Gem for your Farseer. You'll still be acceptable in CC with Death Mission + Witchblade and the Gem can pull you out of it, or if you don't get DM, or you don't find yourself in cc, the Gem can still save your Farseers life at the cost of squadmates, and generally the Farseer is a bit more important than mooks. So the Pheonix Gem isn't bad by any means.

At the end of the day though, a farseer will never be as good or consistant as an Autarch in CC, and even Autarchs have a lot of trouble there.

As a side note, I would consider taking a Jetbike Farseer. Due to the line of sight restrictions on casting Maledictions and Blessings which form the backbone and lionshare of Eldar psychic powers, Farseers on foot are very limited. Most of the good spells cannot be cast from a transport on one hand, and on the other being on a jetbike lets them cruise about the battle field casting psychic powers where they are needed, without reguards to the difficulty of casting from a transport- especially ones without fire points!

2) I am not sold on Illic. He is pretty cool, but remember he still has to roll a 4+ to wound, the opponent still gets Look out Sir for his characters, and the shot does not ignore cover. I don't think hes worth it unless you want to abuse the Pathfinder upgrade, since precision shots are cool, but at 25 points per model I am not sure that they are worth it either.

3) Dire Avengers have a few issues. I would definietly try to find the points to grab the Shimmer Shield. It was buffed in the new book to give a straight up 5+ invulnerable save to the entire squad against shooting as well as cc, and it only costs 5 points more than the Power Weapon + Pistol. Sure you lose an attack, but gaining that 5++ can be huge- especially against things like artillery or Heldrakes! Totally worth the few extra points and losing a single power weapon attack.

I would also pick up a Wave Serpent for them. 18 inches is NOT a very long range, even with batterfocus. Unlike Guardians, Dire Avengers do not have the luxury of a bs4 move and shoot heavy weapon platform, so are absolutely worthless until they close into range of their catapults. a Wave Serpent can give you much needed mobility to close the gap, ensure that you stay in optimal firing range (fire at a squad, then battle focus beyond 18 inches so you are out of move + rapid fire range), etc. Wave Serpents can also provide a lot of dakka on their own with a tl scatter laser providing laser lock for either an underslung shuri cannon or the shield break

4) Definitely grab 2 Shuriken Cannons for your Jetbikes. Due to the way wound allocation works now, having a longer ranged weapon means you can park all your Shuriken Catapults within 12 inches of the absolute closest model, and still allocate those wounds out to the range of the Cannons. Gives you much more flexibility, and a bit more punch against vehicles. Also consider grabbing a Warlock for the Squad. The Primaris Battle Power lets you apply shrouding to your Jetbikes, which combines with Jink, meaning that you are rocking a 3+ cover save, and a 2+ when boosting. On a scoring unit that is TIGHT. The s9 singing spear toss is also useful for helping the squad deal with armour and enemy fire support.

5) Sadly Howling Banshees are terrible. Its a combination of things really, they used to be pretty decent in the old 4th edition codex back in 5th edition. If you absolutely must take them, at least give the exarch an Executioner. Ap2 at initiative 6 is better than nothing.
a) They used to be able to assault out of a transport that had not moved, meaning they weren't subject to at least 1 round of shooting before they could issue a charge, this made them a solid counter charge area denial unit in a mechanized list. Now that they can no longer do this, AND if a Wave Serpent gets destroyed, they still are forbidden from charging on their next turn, the fact that they are toughness 3 and in 4+ armour does not help them survive a round of shooting.
b) Power Weapons used to ignore all armour saves, and ignore FNP, the change to 6th edition means that Banshees are relegated to fighting 3+ save units. Part of the allure of Banshees was that they could engage terminators, it used to be that you could throw down Doom Support and expect Banshees to fair reasonably well in close combat with things like Terminators, Artificer Armour, Obliterators, etc. Now they just bounce helplessly off 2+ armour.
c) The final kick to the overies was the change the new book brought to Banshee Masks. Phil decided to give the girls a -5 initiative to the enemy rule on the first round of a combat, but still neglected to give them plasma grenades. This means that in most circumstances your Banshees are relegated to striking at the SAME TIME as any enemy who put their foot in cover, since you will both be swinging at I1. It used to be that Banshee Masks just set the HB's initiative at 10, and overrode cover penalties so that Plasma Grenades were not necessary. Now you've got a close combat unit which is supposed to specialize in striking fist which will almost never get a chance to do that in practice due to lacking simple Plasma Grenades. The only upside is that the Banshee Mask is now worth it on the Autarch, since it pretty much guarentees him first strike thanks to I6 and PLASMA GRENADES, and he can be pretty dangerous to most enemy HQs with the Shard of Anaris.

Unless the Eldar FAQ gives Banshees Plasma Grenades they are absolutely worthless, they were built to survive by cutting down elite infantry before they could swing thus mitigating thier own losses due to only having toughness 3 and 4+ armour save.

At the end of the Day Banshees went from being able to provide area denial of 6+d6+6 from a wave serepnt, without being shot first, striking at i10 all the time, and punching elite infantry armour. NOW they will usually be forced to at least both a rapid fire and an overwatch before they can charge (6th edition transport rules), will strike simultaniously with the opponent due to lacking plasma grenades (wargear nerf), and bounce worthlessly off the elite infantry that people used to take them to deal with (since power swords were reduced to ap3, and the FAQ disallowed Banshees from even thinking about taking Axes or Mauls). THANKS PHIL. I have 10 Banshees and you can bet that there is no reason to field them in any list attempting to be competitive.

6) Wave Serpents, Scatter Lasers are always always better than Star Cannons. Remember that most Terminators have an invulnerable save, and usually a pretty good invulnerable save. Or maybe they are in cover. In any event getting double the shots is usually more effective against these targets, and because it can tl the rest of the serpents fire power, (the d6+1 s7 shield burst, or an underslung shuriken cannon), running a Scatter Laser is going to be way better than a Starcannon. If you simply must take Starcannons, put them on a Falcon, where they have decent synergy with the pulse laser in that it gives you 4 ap2 shots. Also Holofields are excellent. Wave Serpents have a high base cost, being able to improve your jink from a 5+ to a 4+ just because you moved is very good. Also remember that if you obscure your Wave Serpent with Terrain, you rock out a 3+ cover save.

7) The Wraithlord is fine, but once again, I think you would be better off doubling down on Bright Lances. They can instant death things like Meganobs or Paladins, which is convenient. Make sure he has 2 flamers.

8) Finally the Wraith Knight. Remember that he can only fire 2 weapons (since he is a monsterous creature, and has no special rules to the contrary), so if you go for the stock 2 Wraith Cannons do not buy any shoulder weapons! If you go for the suncannon, consider buying a single scatter laser to twin link the big gun. If you go for Ghost Glaive + Scatter Shield, consider buying 2 shoulder weapons of your choice. But try to avoid taking weapons that you will be unable to fire. No sense wasting points right!

Anyway I hope that this helps you, some of it is conjecture, some of it is logic, some of it is experience with the previous Eldar book. Ultimately we are all trying new things now, so take this with a grain of salt. Bring death to the Monkeigh!








This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/04 15:34:42


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




"kick to the overies" I did love banshees i see there clear weakness now but i have so many :( I was hoping to use them to running up a flank in cover or in the wave serpent but i think (untill they can be replaced with something better (answers on a post card)) the plan looking at the advise is dump the upgrade on the farseer and leave him with the wraithguard in the transport.
Illiac was more interesting because his group can split fire so i can optimise the sniper shots he also instakill on a 6 and shrouded to add to the rangers
The knight i have 2 extras so im not stuck with 2 shots i can switch to the 8 scatter shots ) i play tau alot so i can switch from tank busting to kroot killing
I did add the shimmer shield forgot to pop it on.

So i guess my main question is what do i replace the banshees with 160-170 ish points?

Cheers for all the advise guys
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

a Crimson Hunter clocks in at 160 points, you should have enough fire power to kill a quad gun before it comes on, and it is one of the best Anti Air Platforms in the codex. It is something I would consider trying .

Warp Spiders are very interesting now, I would avoid the exarch because he gets expensive fast and you play russian roulette with him whenever you warp jump, but 6+2d6 warp jump + d6 shoot and battle focus + 2d6 thrusters makes Warp Spiders massively fast, and the buff to monofiliment makes them even better!

Another Wave Serpent, so you can put both your Dire Avengers and Wraithguard in a Transport. Dire Avengers have pretty poor range on average, a Wave Serpent adds both good strength shooting to your list and helps get you DA into position.

There is a lot you can do that will help you out more than Banshees.

Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 akaean wrote:
a Crimson Hunter clocks in at 160 points, you should have enough fire power to kill a quad gun before it comes on, and it is one of the best Anti Air Platforms in the codex. It is something I would consider trying .

Warp Spiders are very interesting now, I would avoid the exarch because he gets expensive fast and you play russian roulette with him whenever you warp jump, but 6+2d6 warp jump + d6 shoot and battle focus + 2d6 thrusters makes Warp Spiders massively fast, and the buff to monofiliment makes them even better!

Another Wave Serpent, so you can put both your Dire Avengers and Wraithguard in a Transport. Dire Avengers have pretty poor range on average, a Wave Serpent adds both good strength shooting to your list and helps get you DA into position.

There is a lot you can do that will help you out more than Banshees.

Akaen, nice posts.

Eldar flyers are very vulnerable. So I'd field an Autarch to control their arrival, at best after the first enemy flyers came in.

Warp Spiders got a buff. However, in my local meta, large blasts and baleflamers are common so that I hesitate using them.

Serpents got a boost. That's very nice and allows to play mech Eldar again. The question for me is to field Fire Dragons as I always did or Wraithguard which got cheaper. I'm still leaning towards Fire Dragons. This allows me to leave the Spiritseer at home.

This brings me to the Farseer. As pointed out, she's needs increased mobility for casting. Therefore, I'd mount her on a jetbike. Jetlocks are rather expensive so that I tend to let her accompany a squadron of GJBs.




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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Here's a though can i join Illiac to the wraith knight? he has split fire and shrouded which if i'm right would pass to the knight? meaning I could in theory pop 2 tank's a turn and snipe something.
   
Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper





I believe that you can't join Illic to the Knight. Since the Knight is a monstrous creature, it's a squad of 1, and thus can't have IC's join it.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte





San Francisco

The banshees can still work, they aren't all that great, but if you use them as a support unit for harlequins or scorpions that's not a bad option. Especially with harlequins as their veil of tears power is back to the old rules of enemies wishing to target the harlequins had to roll 2d6 x 2 and that was their sight range. If they weren't in range then they lose their chance to fire. This means that with a maximum range of 24" they're going to be mostly ignored and with careful positioning/planing you can have the HB follow behind the harlequins, out of line of sight or simply pop out of a transport once they are near a target that the harlequins have already assaulted.

Howling banshees can still work in the army probably, the way I see it, their problem is that they aren't self-sufficient, they have to rely on other units to work properly. If you can co-ordinate assaults together then it could actually work quite well.

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hmm I think I might replace them with another wave serpent maybe some warpspiders?

   
Made in at
Horrific Howling Banshee





Austria

Beattie wrote:
Hmm I think I might replace them with another wave serpent maybe some warpspiders?



Do that!

Warpspiders have always been good, but with the new codex they are excellent.

Mass S6/7 is great vs. most targets and their speed allows them to strike where you need them.

With guide/prescience they even make decent anti air.

- ~4000 points  
   
Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper





I recently played a set of games. One at 1850, and a team game at 1000 points each player. I can tell you from playing them the following:

Wave Serpents with Scatter Lasers and Shuriken Cannons ROCK! Crystal Targeting Matrix is useless on them, but Halo-Fields are useful.

Warpspiders are also good, but beware letting them get into the open. They are better as a Hide-Shoot-Hide type, not "get them across the board" to do damage.

Wraithguard are still the bomb, even though they don't cause instant death anymore. Although with a S10 weapon, it's hard to find something that they won't own. Before this edition, they were my MC hunters (they managed to one shot Riptides, and Tyrannofexs), not so much now.

I'm still at a crossroads in choosing between a Fireprism and Nightspinner, but I'm leaning towards the Nightspinner simply for the barrage factor.

Guardian Defenders are definitely much improved and I would probably take them over the Dire Avengers, especially in a wave serpent, which negates the 6' extra distance from the different gun.

I also had the Wraithguard in a similar Wave Serpent.

I really like the idea of Illic Nightspear, but I'm still trying to figure out the right tactics for him in my army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/11 12:41:43


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




So far 2 games against Tau Illiic died first turn was a 4x4 board and he deployed his crisis suits with smart missles just in range so with ignore cover and s7 insta kill yay :(

I think a cheap wave serpent with scatter lasers and some spider's are on the list to buy first but how many spiders? 6 or 10?
   
Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper





Insacrum wrote:
Wraithguard are still the bomb, even though they don't cause instant death anymore.


I looked up the rule on distort, and found that I was wrong... They can still cause instant death, which means that my monster killers are back.
   
Made in us
War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire





USA - Salem, OR

If the Wraithguard are in the Fire Prism, they're pretty much a suicide unit, but they pack some punch. S10 AP2 is pretty desructive. (Edit: I meant Wave Serpent)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/14 18:14:31


Past armies 4500 pts, 4000 pts 2000 pts
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Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper





Actually, they did their job pretty well. They took out a dreadnought, no issues. I put them in a Wave Serpent, and then use the wave serpent as a weapon battery, once I'm at my destination.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ok so taking what you all said this is what i have

Farseer - singing spear

Farseer

10 Gaurdians - missile launcher - warlock

10 Dire avengers - exarch powersword shimmershield

6 Jetbikes

5 Wraithguard (seer with spear) WS

Waveserpent twinlinked scatter laser, holofield, vector engine

Wraitlord, glaive, star cannon, bright lance

Wraithknight Suncannon, scatter laser

Leaves me around 95pts for something? whats do you guys think?
   
 
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