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I had a close game today with Space Marine. And I lost because I couldn't denied that last objective my opoonent was holding.

My heldrake flew over a squad of scouts which 3 of them is in range to claim the objective.

I rolled a total of 4 hits on the squads. And wounded them all. So 4 scouts dead. Which would have denied him that objective.

The question here is. Does he removed the model nearer to the drake's initial position or from the position where the drake ended its movement.

In this case it matters. Because I ended my movement with the objective behind the drake. And only 3 scouts were in range to claim it.

If the models was to be removed in reference to my final position. Then it would have been a game chnager.

Any thoughts on this guys?

It's in the BRB faq - Hits are allocated randomly to the squad.
It's not the nearest model.

What do you mean randomly? So roll a d6?

If there were only 4 Scouts in that squad, I guess you wouldn't care, because they would be all dead But PredaKhaine is correct, supposed to use Random Allocation.

Now the question is, if you have like 10 Scouts there, and wound 4, how does one randomly choose which get killed? Roll 4 D10s, numbering them from one side to the other?

Random Allocation also happens to dudes inside exploded transports, and Daemonically Possessed transports.

For random allocation in a 10 man squad, I number each guy from 2 to 11, then roll 2d6.

Whoevers number comes up is removed.

Alright I see. Thanks for the help. 1 last question.

Define 4d10?

That would be 4 ten sided dice

So 1st dice. 1 to 6
2nd dice 7 to 12? And so on?

If you start labelling them from 2 upwards, you need roll both dice at once - otherwise, you roll your first dice and one of the guys is taken away. 7-12 would never come up.

So, start at one end of the squad, make the first guy number 2 (the smallest number you can roll on 2d6 at once) and give them numbers. I find numbering them going along in order makes thing simple for me.

Then I roll 2 dice - the result is a number from 2 to 11 and I take the corresponding man away.

This is just the way I do it. You could just as easily put numbers in a hat and get someone to pull a number out or use a ten sided dice. As long as its random

Rolling on 2D6 for larger squads isn't really random though. With the bell curve in probability of the rolls on two dice the model numbered at 7 stands a much higher chance of being removed than any other model.

PredaKhaine wrote:
If you start labelling them from 2 upwards, you roll both dice at once - otherwise, you roll your first dice and one of the guys is taken away. 7-12 would never come up.

So, start at one end of the squad, make the first guy number 2 (the smallest number you can roll on 2d6 at once) and give them numbers. I find numbering them going along in order makes thing simple for me.

Then I roll 2 dice - the result is a number from 2 to 11 and I take the corresponding man away.

that is a terrible way to remove models as number 7 would come up far more often that guy number 2 or 12.

(GW Method) A good way I have found to randomly allocate to 10 guys is to split them into 2 groups of 5, label 1 group of 5 (Group A) 1-3, the other group (Group B) 4-6 then roll a D6. on a 1-3 you then assign each of those five a number 1-5 and roll a D6 If you get a 6 you need to roll again. Repeat as needed with as even of groups as possible. (So if you have 7 guys Group A would have 4 guys and group B would have 3 guys).

(True Random Method) The more precise method, that takes longer to roll out, is to roll a D6 for each model, the highest number takes the wound, on a tie, say 3 models all come up with a 6, roll those three again to figure out the highest score and for who takes the wound.

PredaKhaine wrote:
If you start labelling them from 2 upwards, you need roll both dice at once - otherwise, you roll your first dice and one of the guys is taken away. 7-12 would never come up.

So, start at one end of the squad, make the first guy number 2 (the smallest number you can roll on 2d6 at once) and give them numbers. I find numbering them going along in order makes thing simple for me.

Then I roll 2 dice - the result is a number from 2 to 11 and I take the corresponding man away.

This is just the way I do it. You could just as easily put numbers in a hat and get someone to pull a number out or use a ten sided dice. As long as its random

Only your way isn't random, it's a bell curve with a preference to the number 7.

IIRC, the rulebook gives an example of how to do it randomly:
- Split the unit into groups of 6 models.
- Number the groups and roll a dice (presuming less than 6 groups).
- Roll a dice to see which model is hit within that group.
- Rince, repeat.

Obviously this can be streamlined (10 models? 2 groups of 5, roll a D2 to pick a group then a D6 re-rolling 6's for model), and works fairly easily for units of up to 36 models.

{Edit} Beaten to it by DR :-)

PredaKhaine wrote:
If you start labelling them from 2 upwards, you need roll both dice at once - otherwise, you roll your first dice and one of the guys is taken away. 7-12 would never come up.

So, start at one end of the squad, make the first guy number 2 (the smallest number you can roll on 2d6 at once) and give them numbers. I find numbering them going along in order makes thing simple for me.

Then I roll 2 dice - the result is a number from 2 to 11 and I take the corresponding man away.

This is just the way I do it. You could just as easily put numbers in a hat and get someone to pull a number out or use a ten sided dice. As long as its random

The problem with that approach is that it's not an even distribution - guy #2 is much, much less likely to die than guys #7.

If you have more than 6 models to randomize amongst, and you don't have dice with higher numbers lying around, you can do progressive rolling - divide the squad into equal-sized blocks of no more than six models, and roll to select between those blocks, and then roll again with each block.

So, for a squad of 10 scouts:
Guys 1-5 are 1 block; 6-10 are the second.
Roll a d6; on a 1-3, you're in block #1, and on a 4-6 you're in block #2.
Roll a d6 again within the block to identify the selected model (rerolling results of 6 in this case).

Must have been a race to get that post in, poor guy had 4 people tell him he was wrong within 3 minutes of each other.

kissmymom wrote:
What do you mean randomly? So roll a d6?

roll a D6, giving each of them a number.

if there are more numbers left, (in this case there are 5? so 6.) re-roll that result until you get another number.

Always handy having a D10, D20 and other non-standard dice in your collection for things like this.

Or you can download an apple/android dice roll app and roll a 1dX, where X is the number of models in the squad

I use Dice Ex for my iphone and it is a lot easier that way and faster.

The process for random allocation as described by GW when more than 6 models is split the squad into equal parts(or as close as you can get to it) and roll for a part. Then number the models in the part and roll for the dude hit.

so if there were 14 models in a squad you would split the squad into 5,5,4 and roll a d3 to select one part. Lets say your end up selecting the part with 4 models. You would then number the dudes roll a d6 and reroll results of 5 and 6 till you got a 1,2,3 or 4. Repeat again for each random allocation.

Easy peasy. Or as other said get a random number generator for your phone and go to town.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

kissmymom wrote:
What do you mean randomly? So roll a d6?

roll a D6, giving each of them a number.

if there are more numbers left, (in this case there are 5? so 6.) re-roll that result Roll again until you get another number.

FTFY

Roll it again, do not Re-Roll it, as you can never re-roll a re-roll.

the dudes in the 4 model part have a slightly higher chance of dying using the gw method but this is how the describe doing it.

PredaKhaine wrote:
For random allocation in a 10 man squad, I number each guy from 2 to 11, then roll 2d6.

Whoevers number comes up is removed.

This is not random. It is heavily stacked against the guy with number 7.

Why didn't you vector strike then flame them. Prolly all would have died. Then no need for random anything.

When I have to pick random models, I use a slightly quicker way which doesn't need much calculation. I roll the scatter dice and let the arrow decide where the hits should come from and then allocate the hits as if they were shooting attacks. Bigger squads will have models in the middle which will have no chance at being hit first but will have a higher chance of being hit eventually no matter where the shots come from. This is a highly recommended way to do it, if you want a fluent game play.

Chaospling wrote:
When I have to pick random models, I use a slightly quicker way which doesn't need much calculation. I roll the scatter dice and let the arrow decide where the hits should come from and then allocate the hits as if they were shooting attacks. Bigger squads will have models in the middle which will have no chance at being hit first but will have a higher chance of being hit eventually no matter where the shots come from. This is a highly recommended way to do it, if you want a fluent game play.

And is absolutely not a random allocation method, as you yourself point out there are models that won't be hit first and that the next model hit is dependant on the last. So it's fine if you and your opponent's agree, but it's not Random and so isn't following the rules.

Chrysis wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
When I have to pick random models, I use a slightly quicker way which doesn't need much calculation. I roll the scatter dice and let the arrow decide where the hits should come from and then allocate the hits as if they were shooting attacks. Bigger squads will have models in the middle which will have no chance at being hit first but will have a higher chance of being hit eventually no matter where the shots come from. This is a highly recommended way to do it, if you want a fluent game play.

And is absolutely not a random allocation method, as you yourself point out there are models that won't be hit first and that the next model hit is dependant on the last. So it's fine if you and your opponent's agree, but it's not Random and so isn't following the rules.

No not exactly random, but it's still far out to call this kind of solution "not following the rules". Just relax and lighten up.

Chaospling wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
When I have to pick random models, I use a slightly quicker way which doesn't need much calculation. I roll the scatter dice and let the arrow decide where the hits should come from and then allocate the hits as if they were shooting attacks. Bigger squads will have models in the middle which will have no chance at being hit first but will have a higher chance of being hit eventually no matter where the shots come from. This is a highly recommended way to do it, if you want a fluent game play.

And is absolutely not a random allocation method, as you yourself point out there are models that won't be hit first and that the next model hit is dependant on the last. So it's fine if you and your opponent's agree, but it's not Random and so isn't following the rules.

No not exactly random, but it's still far out to call this kind of solution "not following the rules". Just relax and lighten up.

In a multi model selection the second model chosen is dependent on who the first model chosen was. So no, not Random. And thus not Random allocation. So no, it isn't following the rules. Which is fine if you all agree and are aware that it is the case. Which is why I said "not following the rules" and not " is cheating."

Easiest solution: buy a D20, they are usually pretty cheap.

Though, to be honest, I'm usually pretty careless about random allocation and just let my opponent remove whatever he wants. It's a freaking Heldrake, it's not like I need some other advantage

Chaospling wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
When I have to pick random models, I use a slightly quicker way which doesn't need much calculation. I roll the scatter dice and let the arrow decide where the hits should come from and then allocate the hits as if they were shooting attacks. Bigger squads will have models in the middle which will have no chance at being hit first but will have a higher chance of being hit eventually no matter where the shots come from. This is a highly recommended way to do it, if you want a fluent game play.

And is absolutely not a random allocation method, as you yourself point out there are models that won't be hit first and that the next model hit is dependant on the last. So it's fine if you and your opponent's agree, but it's not Random and so isn't following the rules.

No not exactly random, but it's still far out to call this kind of solution "not following the rules". Just relax and lighten up.

Given it isnt following the rules, as it is not a random method (the first model chosen influences the 2nd and subsequent models, making them dependent) at all.

You are told to use random, which requires discrete, independent events. You have created dependent events. This is fine as a houserule, however in this forum it is usefult o point out when someone is proposing something outside of the rules.

I'm quite aware of all this, maybe it what just the tone which irritated me.

Another possibility, though I try to avoid giving all models a number when figuring this out, is using the ruler and either point yourself or have a third person point a finger on a number between 1 and the amount of models in the unit or just write the number down if possible. The player(s) not pointing on the ruler doesn't know where he's pointing of course. The player(s) not pointing, say a number between 1 and the number of models out loud, one after the other, doesn't matter and add those numbers to the number pointed out on the ruler. If the number is higher than the amount in the unit, then add the rest to 1. The number found is the number of the model being hit.

 Cheexsta wrote:
Easiest solution: buy a D20, they are usually pretty cheap.

Though, to be honest, I'm usually pretty careless about random allocation and just let my opponent remove whatever he wants. It's a freaking Heldrake, it's not like I need some other advantage

Unless i am playing TFG, this is what I do too. As a fellow CSM player I just let them take whatever they want. Then flame the ones that didn't die from the vector strike, lol.