Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We've had this debate in our local are for some time now-If you kill a quad gun before anything else, does that give you first blood? Is it a killpoint?

Most say no to both, but some say yes, actually. Any thoughts on this?

This has come up a few times on this forum.

In short: No and No.

A Gun Emplacement is Terrain, not a unit so does not meet the criteria for either First Blood or VP's.

And even if it was a unit, it is not an 'Enemy' unit or model, which is an important distinction for things like victory points.

Yep, I am not even convinced it is a proper model anymore though I would still argue it is as it has a representation, a profile and can be removed from the table as a casualty indicate it should be considered one, if somewhat 'unique' as it follows it's own rules. It is clear these rules do not flag it as an enemy, and how that interacts with other rules ensures it is very unique.

It does rise a lot of questions on how to interpret the rules for models outside of the rules. The simplest interpretation is to ignore it all as terrain and that does seem the best suited to solve most of these problems. Doesn't always mean it is the best solution, or the right one, but in this very case simply putting it aside as non-scoring for first blood works. Best solution would be to talk it out with the person you are playing with when gun encampments are brought up and work from there.

There is a lot of gray around them, which is what makes me really want to play with a few in some for fun games.

There's no grey area with Gun Emplacements interacting with First Blood or VP's. It is NOT a unit (friendly, enemy or neutral), so does not meet the criteria.

That said, there is nothing stopping you from house ruling it with a buddy to say that they do count, though you would both have to agree as it is definitely outside of the rules.