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I am trying to construct the most competitive CSM list, based on a assault primary army. Of course, I really like Khorne units andd want to run as much khorne (speed) units as possible. The faster the army the better, I want to have as am turn 2 assault threats as possible... speed is the name of the game here, just can't get my finger on the perfect list for my playstyle and still be competitive.

Here is something to work with:

HQ:
Kharn-160
Khorne Lord on jug with Aobf-160

Elites:
None

Troops:
9xKB, including champ with fist
20 CSM, Mok, votlw, IOW, and 2 meltaguns- 385 (Second thoughts about this unit, doesn't fit the list well, IMO)

FA:
Helldrake-170
Helldrake-170
5 MoK Spawn-160 (Running with the lord for a fast threat, 320 points total, please comment on)

HS:
Land Raider- 235
2 Oblitz MoN-152
2 Oblitz, MoN- 152 (Debating on replacing these for Maulerfiends, less points and fits my style more)

Everything runs forward to specific targets, oblitz and helldrake are support fire.

I want to make a fast assault army with helldrake as support fire. I also tried to incorpate daemon allies for a pack of 20 hounds for a fast threat, running with a Herald an some BLs deepstriking.

Please comment on any concern in the list, I am open to absolutely anything about the chaos codex.

Just got back from college and have only played 2 6th edition games, so I am sure I am missing all the good CSM tricks. Please inform me I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.




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Comes to a total of 1952 points.

If you want the most competitive csm list, drop khorne all together. Run plague marines, heldrakes, obliterators, cultists, typhus and a dp

Looks fine. 2 troops is pretty bad but what can we do? take cultists?

I think the zerker/kharn LR will do some damage. If you get a good engage (if the lr doesnt get toasted) it will be a game turner. I always found LRs to be obvious and pretty easy to screen/counter. Id proly just take 9 csm with mok and extra cc wep over zerkers.

Your jug lord is 160 mine is usually 170 Lord AoBF jugg mok SoC or 175 with melta bombs.

Your spawn really dont want MoK as they already have rage. So for the 2 points they get counter attack.... i think thats missable. Lord in here will support LR well.

Oblits vs mauler i cant really comment oblits are super reliable but dont have much saturation: your list is pretty much about a punch not about steady damage so mayb the mauler has it. If you are using oblits make sure they footslog up behind the LR or with the csm mok troopies towards the cc as mon votlw oblits handy in cc.

You cant go wrong with karnak and hounds imo. 15-20 bloodletters might also ds and help you set up an assault too.

Yeah, I want to get some hounds into the mix but the points aren't there, Ill try to do some editing.

I hate to say it, but I agree with you, 9 CSM with Kharn is more effective. It will say me some points too, always a good thing.

Ill post an update list here in a second.

Plague marines are actually better in cc than khorne berzerkers. Zerkers took a huge hit.

Yeah, Plague Marines are definitely the best troop.

I am looking for a competitive, fast, assault army.

I replace the oblitz with maulersfiends, KB with CSM, and dropped the spawn/lord. This puts me at 1589, trying to make a 2000 point list.

I have

Kharn
9 CSM, champ with fist (MoK CSM with all the other good stuff)
20 CSM, (Same gear)
2 Helldrakes
2 Maulerfiends
1 Land Raider

All for 1589 points... what else, I don't have the points to get all the good stuff from the daemons.

Put the csm in rhinos, run kharn up the field with 35 cultists. Add fire power for support... You need fire power if you're going to be assaulting for cover fire.


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A daemon prince of tzeentch with the black mace is probably the best assault unit in our codex and arguably the game

The move to mauler fiends is better for an assulty army.

I think you need more troops with your remaining points and definitely a back field objective sitter to make sure you are competitive. What springs to mind is punting a load of cultists into a rhino (bought as dedicated transport for the big CSM blob) and just having them shoot away from its hatch.

Heldrakes are awesome, but for assaulty I prefer boots on the ground, particularly with flyers slowly taking a hit as more codices giving skyfire and interceptor away. Even if you keep them you have a spare slot for a big bike unit or naked spawn unit to push up with the LR (the only problem being smaller guns would suddenly become usable against your main rush).

If you are going assaulty then obliterators would make a good contribution with their advancing and firing. Although the cost of 3 would get you two helbrutes to walk run up with the main assault. They would take some heat off the maulerfiends and give you some needed heavy flamers and other goodies - power gloves which strike at I4 - take that you terminators!

Hmmmm competitive assault CSM army. Give this a whirl:

Chaos Lord - gift of mutation, juggernaunt, axe of blind fury, burning brand of skalathrax & mark of khorne

10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns - Rhino w/ havoc launche
10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2x meltaguns - Rhino w/ havoc launcher
10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2 x plasma guns - Rhino w/ havoc launcher
10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2 x plasma guns - Rhino w/ havoc launcher

Heldrake - baleflamer
Heldrake - baleflamer
5 x Chaos Spawn - mark of khorne

Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend

I think that is about 2k.

Not as fast as some armies, but lets face it, CSM do not have fast assault. Only other thing I could think off is take two Land Raiders with min Chaos Terminators inside and let them deck basic troops or small units etc.

Anyway, Rhinos move up 12" pop smoke. Chaos Lord joins Spawn and moves up behind them. Maulers run forward use terrain for cover etc.

Your next turn Spawn and Chaos Lord pop out and spllit, they both maul units they can easily tackle.

Maulerfiends tackle empty vehicles i.e Predators, Leman Russ etc or tackle troops which cannot hurt them i.e Guardsmen, Eldar etc as these units do not have krak grenades.

CSM move up 6", bail out and unleash bolter/melta/plasma fire.

Heldrakes come in and burn infantry who have been popped out their rides and vector strike enemy flyers.

Hope that helps

 mercer wrote:
Hmmmm competitive assault CSM army. Give this a whirl:

Chaos Lord - gift of mutation, juggernaunt, axe of blind fury, burning brand of skalathrax & mark of khorne

10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2 x meltaguns - Rhino w/ havoc launche
10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2x meltaguns - Rhino w/ havoc launcher
10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2 x plasma guns - Rhino w/ havoc launcher
10 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - 2 x plasma guns - Rhino w/ havoc launcher

Heldrake - baleflamer
Heldrake - baleflamer
5 x Chaos Spawn - mark of khorne

Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend

I think that is about 2k.

Not as fast as some armies, but lets face it, CSM do not have fast assault. Only other thing I could think off is take two Land Raiders with min Chaos Terminators inside and let them deck basic troops or small units etc.

Anyway, Rhinos move up 12" pop smoke. Chaos Lord joins Spawn and moves up behind them. Maulers run forward use terrain for cover etc.

Your next turn Spawn and Chaos Lord pop out and spllit, they both maul units they can easily tackle.

Maulerfiends tackle empty vehicles i.e Predators, Leman Russ etc or tackle troops which cannot hurt them i.e Guardsmen, Eldar etc as these units do not have krak grenades.

CSM move up 6", bail out and unleash bolter/melta/plasma fire.

Heldrakes come in and burn infantry who have been popped out their rides and vector strike enemy flyers.

Hope that helps

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I really like the list mercer... MoK CSM?

No MoK, it is not needed as they are shooting. I added this list up and I think it is 1,967 btw.

Stop mok ing your spawn. They're so stupid it pisses me off that they'd put it in a codex

Yeah, no reason for MoK on spawn. I think a thrid helldrake is more killy anyway.

Does anyway think that 3 helldrakes is too much, do you find yourself using 3 helldrakes on primary target the entire game or is 2 enough?

and yes, MoK on the Chaos Spawn.

No put mark of nurgle on spawn, ditch lord and run them with non marked lvl 3 sorcerer on bike and go telepathy and hope for invisibility and if ya dont get that, just use the rest of the great abilities telepathy has to offer and tear thru crap.

The Sorcerer isn't as choppy as a Chaos Lord and that's what the OP wanted. I also wouldn't say telepathy has some awesome powers, psychic screech is nice and so is puppet master.

About the MoK on spawns. It is wasted on them as they already hav Rage, and completely redundant if they run with a Khornelord..
You only need one model with the Counterattack special rule in the unit to make every other model benefit from it.

 mercer wrote:

Chaos Lord - gift of mutation, juggernaunt, axe of blind fury, burning brand of skalathrax & mark of khorne

Funny you posted this, as I was trying to research this just last night. The wording seems somewhat open to interpretation (to me at least), but the general consensus seems to be that you may not take the AoBF and the BBoS on the same model. I believe the wording is "You may trade one weapon for one of the following". Those arguing against it emphasize the ONE for ONE. Those arguing for it say you are trading one weapon for one weapon, then trading another one weapon for one weapon. Anyway, general consensus is you cannot take more than one artifact weapon per model.

I think oblits survive longer than Maulerfiends and do a lot more, I think MAulerfiend with book of names is helpfull, but otherwise they do not survive well. I think daemon allies really help CSM. I think with only 2 troop choices you are not going to do well in tournies as objectives will be the main name of the game...

Create Chaos wrote:

 mercer wrote:

Chaos Lord - gift of mutation, juggernaunt, axe of blind fury, burning brand of skalathrax & mark of khorne

Funny you posted this, as I was trying to research this just last night. The wording seems somewhat open to interpretation (to me at least), but the general consensus seems to be that you may not take the AoBF and the BBoS on the same model. I believe the wording is "You may trade one weapon for one of the following". Those arguing against it emphasize the ONE for ONE. Those arguing for it say you are trading one weapon for one weapon, then trading another one weapon for one weapon. Anyway, general consensus is you cannot take more than one artifact weapon per model.

There's no problem in taking two artefacts. You replace ONE weapon with ONE artefact, so in this case I am replacing one bolt pistol for one brand and then one ccw for one blind axe. So that's a one for one basis. It doesn't say you can only have one artefact per model, only switch one artefact for one weapon. Only limitation is one artefact per army.

For max competitiveness, it seems triple helldrake is the thing.

Yes, triple drake is max competitiveness.

I also think triple drakes paired with a assault primary force is a good support fire unit paired with maybe or oblits or just the drakes.

I am thinking I am going to be building my list around drake/oblitz with a fast as possible assault units.

Trouble is that chaos troops are hard to run effective as assault units, I am just thinking about running cultist or two shooting marine squads objective takers and some shooty.

I want some bloodletters and hounds in the mix but it gets to be a high point value game with CSM and Daemon Allies.

Drakes can be counter productive in Ann assault only army. Your assaulty units want to be in cc, however if they are in cc then your drakes can't shoot anything

Well I don't have to be a assault only army. I am just looking to have as "Khorney" as possible units. I want to push up the table with effective assault units and have support fire from drakes/obltz.

I am looking to make a list around drakes/oblitz with FAST ssault forces.

I like the idea of daemon allies but its difficult to come up with the points.

Here's a little quirk...

Run a double force org...

Zilch the khorne lord, add slaanesh lord on mount (with outflank and acute senses)
Add fabius and mark his butt with the oblits

Change your 20 man csm unit into all assault with mark of slaanesh and a +1 strength from fabius..

Very difficult to deal with a massive assault mob outflanking...


I do typically give 4 guys in the front boltguns only, because I know they'll die, but then I'm usually assaulting everything at the same time on turn 3...