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Hey all

I'm going to be starting up with Infinity soon, and I've decided to go with Haqqislam, as I like the look and that generally seems the best way to pick a wargame faction

From what research I've done, it seems there's no significant danger of picking worthless units, so that's good. With that in mind, I'd like a little info before I go ahead and place an order for my starting force.

I'm quite likely to simply go with the Starter pack. The Janissaire looks cool, as does the Hunzakut and Naffatun, and the Ghulams look fine. I don't actually know what any of them do yet, but I'm sure a more thorough read of the rules will clear that up. At the moment, we're going to be playing with starter boxes (one or two guys went for sectorial starters, most went with normal starters), but we'll likely move to 150pts fairly quickly. If I'm using the army builder app on the main infinity website, the Haqqislam starter is just short of 120 pts. Is this right? If not, please point out where I am likely failing as it would probably be something obvious.

So I have a few questions.

Reading the fluff, it indicates that Haqqislam has excellent doctors. Is that something I should aim to take advantage of on the table by adding doctors asap? I also watched a video by the developers talking about the faction with the Beasts of War guys, and they mentioned it's a faction that can run with a lot of good cheap infantry. As a starting player, would it then be wise to start out playing to those strengths and look more at adding that cheaper infantry at first?

Lastly, if any veteran Haqqislam players could give me a few recommended models to look at, and a brief idea of what they add to a force, that would be great. Doesn't need to be much, just a little info to start off my research. It's pretty intimidating at first because there seem to be a lot of units/models and a lot of varied rules/abilities, so a few starting clues would be excellent. Ideally it will help building up my first 150pt force to get some games in, then I should hopefully know enough to make more educated decisions on what I need based on how my meta forms and how I like to play.

Doctors and engineers are their strong points.
With an average WiP (willpower) of 15 (the stat that both doctor and engineer skills use) they are more often than not going to succeed.

Ghulam are light infantry. They provide orders at a cheap points cost. Every faction has these. They are your 8-12pt order monkeys.

Where haqq differs from most factions, is that they have no dedicated DOCTOR units as such. Many of their other units can take a DOCTOR option where the other factions are limited to having paramedics only (a huge difference).

The main secret weapon that Haqq has over the others is VIRAL weapons (before paradiso, ONLY Haqq had them, now Tohaa do as well).

I recommend starting at around a starter box and getting to grips with the rules - the orders reserve, how orders are spent/ AROs resolution (Automatic Reaction Orders - your opponent's reactions to your spent orders ), etc. After this, look at your faction's army list and the minis and go with what you like the look of (subject to availablility - AVA of the units).

Insightful analysis in the OP.

Chromedog is right about Doctors, as well.

What I'd get if I had the starter for the regular Haqqislam, would be any one variations of the Fiday. Fidays, being impersonators, are one of the trademarks of Haqqislam. They are not easy to run, but are fun and provide a lot of opportunity. Djanbazan are also good because they bring MSV2, which no one else in our list has. HMG Djanbazan is always in my list if I play regular Haqqislam.

If you plan to play regular Haqqislam, both of those are good starter follow ups. Do keep in mind, however, that Fidays are in the Hassasin sectorial sub-faction, and Djanbazan are in the Qapu Khalqi, so the only time you will have both of them together is when playing regular Haqqislam. Hafza and Ragik are also a good buy, the former because of his Holoprojector and the latter because he is a "Deep Strike" unit starting in reserves.

Have you given thought to which sectorial you'd like to play?

I'm currently playing around with a QK list.

My hafza are often deployed (holoprojector) as Djanbazans.

The problem is, I also have 2 Djans in the list (everything is clearly marked though) so it keeps my opponents guessing. Shellgame mindgame.

Is this guy here really an MSV2 HMG trooper?
Or is it just a guy with a rifle?
What about that other guy?

 Cryogen wrote:
Lastly, if any veteran Haqqislam players could give me a few recommended models to look at, and a brief idea of what they add to a force, that would be great. Doesn't need to be much, just a little info to start off my research. It's pretty intimidating at first because there seem to be a lot of units/models and a lot of varied rules/abilities, so a few starting clues would be excellent. Ideally it will help building up my first 150pt force to get some games in, then I should hopefully know enough to make more educated decisions on what I need based on how my meta forms and how I like to play.

Starting with generic Haqqislam is a wise decision. About some units to start with:

- Djanbazan: Having at least one MSV2 in any list is a recommended thing. Only Ariadna and a few sectorial armies don¡t have access to this poweful piece of gear. I recommend Djanbazan HMG, but Djanbazan Sniper can work if you are looking for a more defensive approach and saving up some SWC and points.

- Hassassin Lasiq: You can't go wrong with what's probably the best MI in Haqqislam. Pick up a Lasiq Viral Sniper, you won't regret it.

- As soon as your group start playing missions you'll surely want a few Kaplan Tactical Services. Everybody likes that Haqqislam unit with a strong Merc vibe, and their load outs are very interesting.

- Naffatum are also very good. When playing generic Haqq they usually replace the standard Ghulam as order generator units. Now don't get me wrong, Ghulam are worth but they shine more working as a fireteam: linked team in sectorials.

- I would recommend Kum riders too as this warband is a beast thanks to their ultra speed, chain rifles, smoke and Dodged ability. But I wouldn't buy them yet as their models are outdated (very old, abut 6 years and half old) and CB have plans to resculpt them somewhen between this and next year, probably next year. They'll also get redesigned bikes with two wheels.

- Finally, Odaslisques and Muyibs are very interesting units too. The first ones are more new player friendly while Muyibs are as good as the player's skill. When playing generic a Odalisque with Spitfire is something to look at as a spearhead unit. While a Muyib or a pair with viral mines can set up a starting defensive position.

 Alkasyn wrote:

Have you given thought to which sectorial you'd like to play?

He doesn't has to play a sectorial, furthermore starting with generic is heavily recommended.

Janzerker wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:

Have you given thought to which sectorial you'd like to play?

He doesn't has to play a sectorial, furthermore starting with generic is heavily recommended.

Most players do pick a sectorial that suits their style / appeals to them the best and tend to buy units from 1 particular sectorial, even if playing generic; to be able to switch between sectorial/generic.

I actually found the limits imposed by playing a sectorial straight off the bat helped me kind of limit the scope of choices to make initially - it sure 'felt' more comfortable starting. Of course that depends on which sectorial you pick; underdeveloped sectorials / sectorials with rather specific and limiting playstyles (wouldn't go military orders as a n ew player, to name one!) would probably be a bad idea and I honestly don't know enough about haqq sectorials to say if it'd be an option there - but I'd say starting with acon actually helped me get a grasp on things, really. (and TBH I picked the whole thing on "hey, link teams sound good and I like the look of that dragoês thingy" ).

Really though, what new player wants to look at a list of options and drown in 60+ options, all with stats he barely comprehends yet? 10 or 15 or so games in, I really, really don't get that particular piece of advice...

KQ is a rather strong sectorial with linkable Kaplan and support teams. Also Hafza FTW.

Thanks for all the advice. A lot of the models I most liked have also been recommended throughout the thread, and I'm digging what I'm hearing about their abilities. There's definitely plenty for me to work with here.

I think I'll definitely go with the normal starter. The Fiday, and Lasiq with Viral Sniper are already models I wanted so they seem an easy choice. Actually it seems most of my favourite models are Hassassin so I might end up with that sectorial purely by coincidence . I'll get a bunch of games in and see where it leads.

It's really good to know the Kum riders are due a resculpt, hopefully they turn out great like the Aragoto bikes.

Remember though - just because they're due for a resculpt doesn't mean they'll be getting one soon (unless there are rumours to that effect; I'm not up-to-date with them). I've also heard that the Hasassins are less beginner-friendly than most sectorials.

Also, if you are located in Brisbane there is a decent group at Irresistible Force near Logan, they helped me get into the game completely from scratch. I didn't really understand the rulebook or anything and now I can't get enough.

 Dheneb wrote:
Remember though - just because they're due for a resculpt doesn't mean they'll be getting one soon (unless there are rumours to that effect; I'm not up-to-date with them). I've also heard that the Hasassins are less beginner-friendly than most sectorials.

Not a problem, the Kum bikes as they stand aren't something I want, so waiting will be easy. I'm not looking at running the sectorial specifically at this stage, it's likely that at least for my first few games I'll only have one extra model above the starter at most so it should be fine.

What part of the wide brown land are you located in?

Brisbane has a couple of groups of players and access to a local terrain fabricator.

Sydney has some players, starting up in various areas.

Canberra has a keen group.

Melbourne has some gamers out at Hampton.

Don't know about anything west of there, though. On my map, it's still listed as "here be dragons".

Melbourne. I'm pretty lucky to have a large group of friends that all wargame, and so far there's at least 6 of us trying Infinity out. If it turns out to be as fast-playing as it appears to be I think it will have strong appeal in our group and will pull even more of them in.

When you feel the need to go check out some seasoned tourney players, check out the Hampton gamers (if they're anywhere near you.).

Try to ignore Noakes if he's wearing an animal onesie, though. Yes, the same noakes from the Forward Observer infinity podcast.

I hope they get over whatever it was they had a problem with and get back to recording. The Aussie scene is soooo unlike the other countries, and so many fail to resonate with us.

The Haqqislam starter is a good choice, and being one of the recently updated starter sets it also has cool-looking models.

As for other units to look at, someone already mentioned the Fidays, Lasiqs and Naffatuns. Here are my other input:

Odalisque: they're your pseudo-heavy infantry: light infantry that doesn't go down (unless your opponents used special ammo) when hit. These girls pack quite a punch themselves. And because of their i-Kohl, no one wants to engage them much in close combat.

Tuareg: your only TO Camo unit. With a WIP of 15, they make great midfield doctors and hackers. I mostly use one of them as skirmisher who lays mines on corridors and watches the firelanes with her sniper rifle.

Al Hawwa: beautiful models, and you can either play it as a hacker or a sniper w/ mines. Another skirmisher worth looking at.

Asawira: one of the toughest melon-fethers you'll ever see. Like other heavy infantry, they have two wounds. Unlike other heavy infantry, they can regenerate those wounds.

Saladin: personally I haven't used him, but people swear by the Saladin + Fiday combo for some Strategos shenanigans. Other people more qualified can expound on this.

Tarik Mansuri: he's Captain Haqqislam! Fun unit to use since he can jump long distances and pretty much do weird acrobatics only a few units can do on board.



Remember that in Haqqislam, your threats are not limited to one really good heavy infantry/TAG supported by a bunch of cheerleaders. In Haqqislam, your cheerleaders ARE almost as deadly (sometimes even more so) than your heavy hitters. Every unit is a threat of its own.

So I've bought the Starter, a Djanbazan HMG (he seems like a solid choice that seems to find a way into a lot of lists I see) and an Odalisque with spitfire. I went with the Odalisque because she'll fit well into the points value I'll be playing, is a cool model, and seems like she'll be pretty effective. I decided against the Fiday and Lasiq for now because both are in the Hassassin sectorial starter, so I may end up simply buying that eventually. I really like the Hafza and the holoprojector rules, but considering all my opponents are only just starting out, nobody knows what any of the units actually do yet. It seems silly to have a holoprojector pretending to be something else when nobody knows whether to fear/ignore that something . So I'll introduce him at some point in the future. Also, after reading through the rules, I really like the idea of the Bashi Bazouks and their built-in shell game. So one of those is on the agenda as well. I was also pleased after reading the rules on what the Hunzakut actually offers, he was the only guy in the starter I didn't really like, but now that I know what he does it seems he'll be quite interesting.

I've only come up with one question so far, in regard to shotguns. It seems that they are a hybrid of a direct BS attack and a template? Where this is causing me a little confusion is compared to say a flamethrower, where you shoot someone and it autohits, and if they ARO it is a normal roll, not a face to face roll. But with a shotgun, a BS roll is made against a target first. So if that target ARO's to shoot back, it is a face to face roll? I assume that anyone behind the target hit by the template who is able to ARO shoot would be making normal rolls since they have nothing to oppose.

For example, as per below text diagram we have model A with a shotgun, shooting at model B. Models C and D are behind B and will be hit by the teardrop template if B is hit. So: Model A and B make face to face rolls? And C, D both make normal rolls (assuming they are ARO: shooting)? If A is successful at beating B, the teardrop is placed at B and extending beyond? At this point B, C and D will all have to make ARM rolls, right? And regardless of whether C and D succeed in hitting/killing A, the template would still be placed (if A beat B earlier), so potentially everyone could die?

A ---------- B C D


Anyway hopefully my order will be delivered today and I'll be up & running soon. Thanks for all the advice in the thread, it's been most helpful!

http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Shotgun

If you have any rules question, the Infinity wiki is there for a quick reference. If it'snot there, feel free to ask the community.

 Cryogen wrote:

For example, as per below text diagram we have model A with a shotgun, shooting at model B. Models C and D are behind B and will be hit by the teardrop template if B is hit. So: Model A and B make face to face rolls? And C, D both make normal rolls (assuming they are ARO: shooting)? If A is successful at beating B, the teardrop is placed at B and extending beyond? At this point B, C and D will all have to make ARM rolls, right? And regardless of whether C and D succeed in hitting/killing A, the template would still be placed (if A beat B earlier), so potentially everyone could die?

A ---------- B C D

Keep in mind both friendly and enemy miniatures block Line of Vision. Therefore in your example C and D aren't able to gain any ARO unless one of them is bigger than B (for example let's suppose D is a TAG and B and C normal infantry. B makes a face to Face against A, C can't see A as B blocks LoV so can't declare any ARO, and D makes a normal roll because B and C are not enough big to block its LoV and A didn't designated it as a target from his shots.)

There's of course another possibility with the adition of the 3rd dimension. Let's suppose A shots from an elevated place. Therefore B, C and D can trace LoV towards A and can declare an ARO. If A only targets B, then C and D will make normal rolls. Let's suppose A shoots B, B AROes shoot, C AROEs shoot and D AROes dodge. A and B will make a FtF roll, C and D normal rolls. In the case B wins A, nothing special happens, C may hit A or not and D may success trying to to a dodge movement or not. In the case A wins B, B is hit and the shotgun template/s is/are placed. C that was shooting unopposed against A is automatically hit, while D has a chance to avoid the template/s if he succeeds in his dodge roll.

As you can see, shotguns in this game break hell in tight corridors and, in the hands of infiltrators or AD troops that can easily flank the enemy, can punish your adversary's bad deployment.

Hope this helps.